[ppml] article about IPv6 vs firewalls vs NAT in arstechnica (seen on slashdot)
JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
jordi.palet at consulintel.es
Fri May 11 17:23:26 EDT 2007
I've talked with Leo from IANA about this details a few days ago.
Basically there are two choices to make this happen (even both in parallel):
1) The ID becomes an RFC and possibly has further details, as for example a
possible split of the FC00 in between several registries, or just a mention
of the IANA as to designate the central registry (a single one or
distributed across several), with an explicit mention of the RIRs as being
that authority.
2) A global policy doing the same job. The risk here is that it is not
accepted by any of the RIRs, and then we become stuck.
I will say that the RFC path may be faster and actually is what I'm trying
to follow with the ID authors.
Regards,
Jordi
> De: Jason Schiller <schiller at uu.net>
> Responder a: <ppml-bounces at arin.net>
> Fecha: Fri, 11 May 2007 09:05:10 -0400 (EDT)
> Para: Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com>
> CC: <vixie at vix.com>, <ppml at arin.net>, "address-policy-wg at ripe.net"
> <address-policy-wg at ripe.net>
> Asunto: Re: [ppml] article about IPv6 vs firewalls vs NAT in arstechnica (seen
> on slashdot)
>
> Owen,
>
> I just want to be clear about somehting you said. You view ULA central as
> "an end-run on the RIR process." Is this because the expired ULC-central
> draft suggests that some new "central allocation authority" be established
> to assign these addresses?
>
> If the draft RFC was resurrected and all references to "cental allocation
> authority" and "cental authority" were removed and replaced with clear
> text explaining the following:
>
> - IANA should divide FC00::/8 into eight /11s
> - Each RIR would be given one /11 to make ULA-Central assignments
> - Three /11s would be held in reserve for new RIRs in the future.
>
> Would you still think this was an end-run on the RIR process?
>
> Would you be in support of the draft moving forward?
>
> Do you think this should not be decided by an RFC, but rather as a global
> policy through each of the RIRs?
>
> If you prefer the RIR process, would you be in favor of a global policy
> submitted to ARIN that had the provisions of the expired ULA-central
> draft, with the modification of removing "cental authority" and clearly
> designating how IANA should divide the space among the existing RIRs?
>
> ULA-central text snippets below.
>
> ___Jason
>
>
>
> draft-ietf-ipv6-ula-central-01.txt -- section 3.2.1
> "Global IDs should be assigned under the authority of a single
> allocation organization because they are pseudo-random and without
> any structure. This is easiest to accomplish if there is a single
> authority for the assignments."
>
> draft-ietf-ipv6-ula-central-01.txt -- section 7.0
>
> "The IANA is instructed to designate an allocation authority, based on
> instructions from the IAB, for centrally assigned Unique Local IPv6
> unicast addresses. This allocation authority shall comply with the
> requirements described in Section 3.2 of this document, including in
> particular allocation on a permanent basis and with sufficient
> provisions to avoid hoarding of numbers. If deemed appropriate, the
> authority may also consist of multiple organizations performing the
> allocation authority duties.
>
> The designated allocation authority is required to document how they
> will meet the requirements described in Section 3.2 of this document
> in an RFC. This RFC will be shepherd through the IETF by the IAB."
>
>
>
>
>
> ==========================================================================
> Jason Schiller (703)886.6648
> Senior Internet Network Engineer fax:(703)886.0512
> Public IP Global Network Engineering schiller at uu.net
> UUNET / Verizon jason.schiller at verizonbusiness.com
>
> The good news about having an email address that is twice as long is that
> it increases traffic on the Internet.
>
> On Thu, 10 May 2007, Owen DeLong wrote:
>
>> Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 23:12:21 -0700
>> From: Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com>
>> To: "william(at)elan.net" <william at elan.net>
>> Cc: vixie at vix.com, ppml at arin.net, address-policy-wg at ripe.net
>> Subject: Re: [ppml] article about IPv6 vs firewalls vs NAT in arstechnica
>> (seen on slashdot)
>>
>> ULA Central is intended so that some subset of the internet can reliably
>> use it to interconnect while not being "globally" routed.
>>
>> The problem I have with this theory is that the delta between a
>> collection
>> of networks routing by mutual agreement and the internet is:
>>
>> A. Fuzzy
>> B. Non-Existant
>> C. There is no difference
>> D. Meaningless
>> E. Any and/or All of the above
>>
>> Pick your favorite answer from the above and you've pretty much got it.
>> If ULA central were limited to not exiting the local AS (in some
>> meaningful
>> way, like routers won't forward routes or traffic to ULA addresses to
>> external
>> adjacencies), then, I might see it as something other than an end-run on
>> the RIR process. However, in it's current state of "license for
>> anyone who
>> wants to run a competing RIR for networks that choose to interoperate
>> on this basis" I think it's a pretty bad idea.
>>
>> Owen
>>
>>
>> On May 11, 2007, at 12:03 AM, william(at)elan.net wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I don't understand your point about why ULA need to be registered if
>>> its not going to be globally routed. Also PI is not the same as ULA -
>>> PI do come from RIRs and in IPv6 there was no way to get PI (except
>>> in a few special cases) until recent ARIN's micro-allocation policy.
>>>
>>> On Fri, 11 May 2007, Tony Hain wrote:
>>>
>>>> I agree that this will help inform the debate, and while Iljitsch
>>>> did a good
>>>> job of outlining the issue, he left out a significant point:::
>>>> People explicitly chose to be in the state of "as there is
>>>> currently no
>>>> obvious way to make services only available locally" by insisting
>>>> that the
>>>> local-scope addressing range have a global-scope as far as
>>>> application
>>>> developers were concerned. Now the application developers are
>>>> complaining
>>>> about the consequences of their choice, because the alternative to
>>>> 'no
>>>> routing path for an attack' is to insert a device that has to make
>>>> policy
>>>> decisions with limited information.
>>>>
>>>> The current ULA-central discussions will be directly involved in
>>>> this issue.
>>>> It is critical that all of the RIR's have policies establishing a
>>>> mechanism
>>>> for registering ULA-central prefixes & PI. For those who don't
>>>> recall, the
>>>> reason ULA-central was tabled was that it was seen as a potential
>>>> end-run to
>>>> acquire PI space in the absence of appropriate policy to do so out
>>>> of a
>>>> range recognized for global routing.
>>>>
>>>> The need for keeping some things local while others are global is
>>>> real, and
>>>> the lack of appropriate mechanisms to accomplish that through the
>>>> routing
>>>> system that is designed to deal with path selection leads to entire
>>>> industries for fragile work-arounds along with their increased
>>>> complexity.
>>>>
>>>> Tony
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: ppml-bounces at arin.net [mailto:ppml-bounces at arin.net] On
>>>>> Behalf Of
>>>>> vixie at vix.com
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 9:59 PM
>>>>> To: ppml at arin.net
>>>>> Subject: [ppml] article about IPv6 vs firewalls vs NAT in
>>>>> arstechnica
>>>>> (seen on slashdot)
>>>>>
>>>>> i think that this article will help inform the debate around the
>>>>> ipv6
>>>>> transition:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/ipv6-firewall-mixed-
>>>>> blessing.ars
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>
>
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