[ppml] My view on IPv4 (was: Re: IPv4 wind-down)

Sean Reifschneider jafo at tummy.com
Thu Mar 22 04:04:15 EDT 2007

First, let me be honest and say that I just recently joined the list
(because of the recent invitation), and beyond coming to this discussion
late I also am only reading a tenth or less of the discussion because I
just don't have time to read 100 long, densly-populated messages a day.
So, some of this certainly may be duplication, but I was asked to
participate and this is what I can do...

I have 5 /24 blocks, one legacy allocation and 4 allocations from one of
our upstreams.  I have 0 IPv6 allocations and 0 interest in moving to v6.
While the ppml list is talking about the wind-down and countdown of v4, v6
doesn't even exist for me.

I've never tried to reach a service that I couldn't reach because it only
had a v6 address.  My network can handle v6 no problem, but there's 100% v4
coverage, as far as I can see, and so there's absolutely no reason for me
to go through the pain of setting up and maintaining v6.  Setting up v6
right now would, literally, gain me nothing.  I can't use new v6
space on new servers that are set up because a client using a v6-only
server would immediately yell at me that none of their users can access the

I travel around a lot, and I've *NEVER* been to a location (client site,
data center, residences of friends and family, coffee shops, hotels) that
could offer me the ability to get to a v6-only host.

I'm a good guy and all, and I'd like to be in a world where there are
plenty of addresses for everyone.  However, I just can't switch to v6.

First of all, none of my providers offer me, as far as I know, v6, not at
my facility, and certainly not at home.  I honestly haven't looked at my
facility, because none of the servers we host have any reasonable quantity
of users who could access them on v6, even if I had v4+v6 on every host.

I can't just go to my boss and say "IP space is going to start costing us
twice (or 10 times) as much in another year".

What I need are *USERS* who are on v6 who are trying to reach these sites.
I'd literally need to have one of my home connections be v6 before I'd
seriously consider switching.  If the regional ILEC and a national cable
provider "can't" switch to v6 (a) how can I be expected to, but more
importantly (b) who exactly is going to be using my servers if I put them
on v6?

Just to be clear, I'm not looking for people to pipe up and say "I'm using
v6 at home", because the audience of this I'm sure has the sort of people
who would go and do it.

These are the places we need to be providing incentives to to switch to v6.
We need to reach a tipping point.  There are two ways of going about that:
One is to try to convert tens of thousands of entities who have smaller
allocations (like /24s), the other is to go after dozens of entities that
have larger allocations (like /8s).

Previous corporations I've worked for have used large public allocations
for private machines on their network.  Several companies, one of which had
a /8 *AND THEN* had additional /20-/24 allocations for their NAT boxes and
other public addresses.  It's annoying these places haven't given back the
space, but it's *SHAMEFUL* that they haven't even started the process of
being able to give back this space.  "It would be too expensive for us, so
we aren't even going to think about it" is the excuse I've heard about the
/8.  I won't name any names, but their first octet is a small prime number.

I play by the rule that I won't ask for more space until I'm at 80%
utilization on my current space.  The low-hanging fruit may be that if you
aren't using, say, 50% of your allocation publicly, that allocation has to
come back.  Just to throw out numbers, say 3 years.

We have people out there who know or should know that there's a "looming"
v4 shortage, yet they're actively holding onto space they aren't using

I don't think that treating v4 like land, and giving people the ability to
sell it, is a good way to go.  First of all, there are only at most 16m /24
blocks.  It reminds me of diamonds, they're as valuable as they are because
one entity controls the release of diamonds.  With that little space, an
entity or government could literally purchase all available space and then
could set prices to whatever they wanted, making a massively profitable
enterprise.  Just because it makes business sense.

Anyway, it's late and those are my thoughts on v6.  I'd propose working to
get those with many users to switch to v6 first, and start the process of
reclaiming space from those who aren't using it.

The whole v6 thing seems like this fortune I read years ago:

   Let us live!!!  Let us love!!!  Let us share the deepest secrets
   of our souls!!!       You first.

Nobody wants to be the first to switch to v6.  And by "nobody", I mean
nobody that I know.  ;-)  I assume you get my point though.

 TENDER MOMENT.  -- Gordon Cole, _Twin_Peaks_
Sean Reifschneider, Member of Technical Staff <jafo at tummy.com>
tummy.com, ltd. - Linux Consulting since 1995: Ask me about High Availability

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