[ppml] Proposed Policy: IPv4 Countdown

Ted Mittelstaedt tedm at ipinc.net
Fri Mar 16 16:38:42 EDT 2007

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Stephen Sprunk [mailto:stephen at sprunk.org]
>Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 1:22 PM
>To: Ted Mittelstaedt; Owen DeLong
>Subject: Re: [ppml] Proposed Policy: IPv4 Countdown
>Nothing is simple when lawyers get involved, and this sort of contract is
>novel in a variety of ways, so until it's been tested in court, we really
>don't know how enforceable it is.

OK so according to this logic since no contract is really valid until
it's tested in a court, there is no point for businesses to bother to
sign contracts with each other because none of those contracts have been
tested in court and so are bogus anyway.

Or better yet, businesses should sign contracts then immediately break
them so they can go to court and have the court rule if the contract is
valid or not so they can know if it's OK to break it.

You have been watching too much LA Law on television.

> Courts throw out contracts all the time
>for various reasons; anti-trust issues in particular are of
>serious concern
>to RIRs.  Unfortunately, for now ARIN is in a much better position
>using the
>carrot than the stick.

You must have never trained a puppy, the carrot is far more effective
if accompanied by the stick as well.

>>>In the case of legacy assignments and allocations, originally
>>>issued prior to the existence of ARIN, it is even less clear that
>>>ARIN has any ability to revoke them.
>> If ARIN's charter is responsible stewardship of IPv4 space and IPv4
>> space is defined to be all space even that not assigned to an RIR
>> then it seems to me that there is an issue there.  But, this is the
>> heart of the issue of IPv4 conservation - unless IPv4 space issued
>> prior to the RIR's is brought under control of an RIR then there is
>> no way to fairly allocate IPv4 space, once it becomes constricted.
>All of the address space is either reserved or assigned to an RIR.  The
>issue is that legacy assignees/allocees(?) are not bound by any contract
>with their respective RIR that dictates the terms of that relationship.
>In theory, since there's no contract ARIN has no legal obligation to
>maintain those registrations, but the community has, to date, felt that
>there is a moral obligation to maintain them at no cost.

What exactly do you think "maintaining" something means?  OK, I'll
capitulate.  I agree with you that ARIN should initiate processes
to reclaim IP addresses from non-contracted address space because to
not do this would mean that they are failing in their duties to
maintain such space.

You cannot have your cake and eat it too, I am sorry to say.

>> Exactly, and this issue must be faced squarely or we are just wasting
>> our time on the whole issue of extending the life of IPv4 on the
>> Internet.
>Then quit arguing about it and submit a policy proposal.

Someone was complaining a few days ago about policies written
wth no input.  Now your wanting policies written with no input.
I guess there is no satisfying people.

>> This is also an issue that must be faced squarely.  Any plan to
>> extend use of IPv4 past the actual end of allocatable blocks of
>> numbers must deal with the mechanism of finding and obtaining
>> previously-allocated blocks that are now unused.  Because there
>> isn't going to be anywhere else to get the IP space from.
>Do note that the projections for how long address-reclamation efforts will
>extend the exhaustion are on the order of six months.  That means
>it'll take
>us longer to reach consensus and implement the changes than the period of
>time we'll buy by doing so, meaning we're better off _not_ doing it and
>instead spending our time figuring out how to get people on IPv6.

Ah, now the truth comes out.  You want IPv6 and are happy to see
reclamation efforts on IPv4 fail so it hastens the day for IPv6.
So you will be happy to continue to throw up silly objections to keep
the pot boiling.

Interesting how the proponents of IPv6 say 6 months.  Do you think
there's a connection?  Nahhhhh!


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