[ppml] Policy Proposal 2007-15: Authentication ofLegacyResources

Stephen Sprunk stephen at sprunk.org
Mon Jul 30 14:27:20 EDT 2007

Thus spake "Jeremy H. Griffith" <jeremy at omsys.com>
> On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 10:56:19 -0500, "Stephen Sprunk" <stephen at sprunk.org>
> wrote:
>> Likewise, I don't see much purpose in discussing carrots until
>> ARIN does some outreach to at least make legacy holders
>> aware of ARIN and give them an opportunity to join on the
>> existing terms.
> Actually, ARIN *has* done that, on March 14th.  That's why I'm here:
>>>You are receiving this message because you are a registered
>>>Point of Contact (POC) with ARIN and are not subscribed by
>>>this e-mail address (jhg at omsys.com) to the ARIN Public
>>>Policy Mailing List (PPML). ARIN invites you to join the PPML.
> I appreciate that ARIN staff took that initiative.  There are
> probably quite a few of us old-timers here lurking, listening
> to the dialogue with varying degrees of disbelief and horror.
> And occasional glimmers of hope...  ;-)

Well, getting people onto PPML is a first step.  Unfortunately, so far 
there's been no next step on how to get resources under RSA for those 
willing.  There was also a big flurry of unsubscribes as those POCs that 
joined realized that PPML is a high-traffic list and they have little 
interest in participating.  That's their choice, and I have no problem with 
it, but it means we're mostly back to where we were before -- though at 
least they've heard of ARIN now.

It also doesn't solve the problem of all the POC contact addresses that are 
invalid.  Many (but certainly not all) legacy blocks are still in use, but 
their contact info hasn't been updated in at least a decade.  It's rather 
rare for an email address to be valid for that long, and even rarer that 
that person would still be the appropriate person for ARIN to be contacting.

>>We've heard from legacy holders here that want to join and can't
>>figure out how,
> I'm one of those.  The $100 a year isn't a showstopper, though
> it's about what I pay for *ten* domain registrations,

That $100/yr is for an unlimited number of end-user (i.e. non-LIR) 
registrations.  Perhaps that's not the appropriate fee model either, but 
it's not quite fair to compare it to domains, where you pay per 

> but the mechanism is invisible.  Apply for what I already have?
> Uh, no, that seems impossible.  And I don't need any more, thank
> you.

That's a big hole right now.  See below.

> My contact info is up to date.  If things got desperate, I
> probably would return two or three /26s to help out.

That's a nice gesture, but if we get to the point /26s will help in any 
meaningful way, all is already lost.

> But agree to something that could expropriate it *all*?  I don't
> *think* so...  ;-)

Well, as it stands today, ARIN doesn't revoke _anything_ unless there was 
fraud involved or people don't pay their bills.

Owen and I have submitted a policy proposal (2007-14) that would allow ARIN 
to review resources for utilization after the fact.  In the case of direct 
assignments, one would need to be using substantially less than 50% of one's 
block to be in any danger, and even then there's a specific exemption for 
legacy space (e.g. your block).  OTOH, that exemption could be removed from 
the policy later on, if consensus could be achieved to do so.

>>and there are thousands that have never even heard of ARIN.
>>IMHO, those problems need to be solved before we discuss
>>carrots _or_ sticks, and the success level of those efforts will
>>dictate what later discussions will look like.
> Exactly.  How about at least a Web page suggesting what we
> should *do*... if in fact we need to do *anything* besides
> keeping our info current?

IIRC, there was a comment that staff is working on that, but I can't find 
the message at the moment.  In the meantime, if you're motivated, contact 
hostmaster@ and ask them what the process is to get your resources under an 

> I'd sign an RSA just to get voting rights, if it didn't allow taking
> my current legacy resources to benefit somebody else with
> more money...  <vbg>

Signing an RSA doesn't make you a voting member.  You need to either be a 
LIR with a direct allocation (which requires an RSA) or pay $500/yr to be a 
general member (which doesn't).

(Unless I'm reading the fee schedule wrong; it explicitly uses the word 
"allocation" and not "assignment" or "resource" when discussing who gets 
automatic membership.)


Stephen Sprunk      "Those people who think they know everything
CCIE #3723         are a great annoyance to those of us who do."
K5SSS                                             --Isaac Asimov 

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