[ppml] IPv4 "Up For Grabs" proposal

[James Jun]

[ snip ]

> 
> I guarenteee to you that Leatherman Tool Group IS NOT paying ARIN a dime,
> has NEVER paid them a dime.  Yet, ARIN is still tracking this so ARIN
> obviously considers this legacy holder still their responsibility.

Yes, I am well aware of ARIN keeping whois record of all legacy holders in
their service region (likewise, 17.0.0.0/8, 3.0.0.0/8, etc, we can spend the
whole summer discussing this string by string and argue over how fast the
moon moves and etc).  

But you advocate that it is ARIN's responsibility: no, other than
maintaining whois records, it is not, and that is my point in my previous
email.  ARIN policies do not apply, unless legacy holders voluntarily want
ARIN policies to apply over them.


> 
> No, sorry it does not work that way.  The reason is that when "their"
> customers
> cannot connect to a service one of my customers is fielding, their
> customer
> may in fact complain to them, but my customer is going to complain to me
> also.  If I want to retain my customer I'm going to have to do whatever it
> takes
> to allow the legacy network to connect to me, because there's always
> another
> ISP somewhere that will claim they will allow my customer to service the
> customer on the legacy network.  (even if it isn't true)


That's a moot argument.  You can enable IPv6 and IPv4 on your network and
figure out dualstacking migration like other ISP's are doing (heck, even
most "Tier-1" ISP's and many large access carriers are working toward a
solution now, number of big guys already offering production class service
already).   After you enable it, your customers can suddenly talk to both
worlds until much of the Internet moves over to IPv6, which you can then
turn off IPv4.  And reduced-cost transition mechanisms are continued to be
worked on at IETF and other forums, such as Teredo, and that original PT-NAT
idea back in the days was pretty cool too.

Are you advocating that you are going to sue Apple for deprecating support
for AppleTalk in recent Mac OS X series, because your network continues to
use old AppleTalk protocol and you're hell bent on keeping it?  How about
move on like everyone else has, to TCP/IP, in order to support Apple share
volumes?  We can play this game all day long, citing specific scenarios that
all of us encounter on a daily basis to counter-argue each other.

So please, get on with the program.  Technology changes, market adopts, and
there's always something in life called marginal cost of doing business.
IPv4->IPv6 transition is costly but it is manageable and acceptable by much
of the Internet community, especially with hard work being put forth on
transition technologies.  If you want to create chaos because you are so
lazy to transition your network to IPv6, then I am sorry that there isn't
much that people can do for you.


> Letting legacy holders get away witout funding the RIR that tracks them is
> in my opinion, far crazier than any rules I've proposed.  Yet, you accept
> it.

Because legacy holders got their IP space before ARIN existed, thus RSA and
ARIN policies do not apply to them.  Since when did ARIN become a government
body?  I mean do we really need a lawyer to figure this out?


James