[ppml] fee clarification was: PPML Digest, Vol 22, Issue 9

Ray Plzak plzak at arin.net
Thu Apr 5 10:25:53 EDT 2007

I agree that a discussion of whether to use fees as a policy tool is appropriate, however in the end, the board after consultation with the members of ARIN will decide whether or not to use such a tool.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: ppml-bounces at arin.net [mailto:ppml-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of
> Howard, W. Lee
> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 10:01 AM
> To: ppml at arin.net
> Subject: Re: [ppml] fee clarification was: PPML Digest, Vol 22, Issue 9
> When the subject of money comes up, I want to be as clear as
> possible.  Discussions of fees really belong on the members
> mailing list, arin-discuss, but I personally think the debate
> of whether fees should be a tool in policy is appropriate
> here.
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ppml-bounces at arin.net [mailto:ppml-bounces at arin.net] On
> > Behalf Of Ted Mittelstaedt
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 8:58 PM
> > To: mahler at louisiana.edu; ppml at arin.net
> > Subject: Re: [ppml] PPML Digest, Vol 22, Issue 9
> >
> > Consider ARIN's fee schedule.  Above a /14 is $18,000.00 USD
> > a year.  Why would a legacy /8 holder who is currently paying
> > ARIN not a cent, because they have not signed an RSA, want to
> > sign an RSA to get auto-allocated IPv6 for free so they can
> > start paying $18,000 a year for their /8 and be subject to
> > utilization requirements as well?
> http://www.arin.net/billing/fee_schedule.html
> Renewal fees are equal to initial registration fees only
> for allocations (i.e., to ISPs).  Maintenance fees for
> assignments (i.e., to end-users) are $100 per year.  This is
> true both in IPv4 and IPv6 (ignoring the waiver).
> > A legacy holder of a /8 IPv4 that wants IPv6 would be better
> > off simply registering IPv6 by itself and paying much less
> > money.  In fact, that is one of the loopholes I would like to
> > see closed in ARIN's policy.
> >
> > A pre-RIR /8 holder who didn't sign an RSA for the /8 could I
> > believe go to ARIN and pay the yearly membership fee of $500
> > and then the minimum $500 under the fee wavier and get all
> > the IPv6 they wanted.  Of course they would be subject to an
> > RSA for the IPv6 but according to the published policies I
> > think they would only be required to demonstrate 80%
> > utilization on their existing /8.  In that case it would be
> > $17,000 cheaper per year for them to NOT participate in an
> > IPv6 auto-allocation program.
> This loophole was intentional.  Members pay either the annual
> allocation renewal on their IPv4 allocation, or a $500 annual
> renewal fee.  As a member, you not only get this waiver, you
> also get to vote for Board and Advisory Council members, you
> get 2 free seats at the public policy and members meeting
> (transportation, room and board are still up to you), and you
> get to discuss fees and finances on arin-discuss.
> > >Make this the last time you have to worry about your
> > existing address
> > >space between now and your retirement.  Make the advantage
> > of switching
> > >to IPV6 that you have room to operate and test for years to
> > come.  Make
> > >it a reason to work thru the headaches of using IPV6.
> It's debatable whether we're there yet.  Since ARINs default
> assignment size is /48, and default allocation size is /32,
> there's a lot of space for most people to work with.
> Is that enough to last until retirement?  Depends on how much
> your network grows (and maybe how close you are to retirement).
> >
> > I think an auto-allocation scheme would work for IPv4 holders
> > who are paying ARIN now.  What I would like to see is the
> > separate fee schedules for IPv4 and IPv6 to disappear and
> > there to be only a single fee schedule and both IPv4 and an
> > equivalent amount of IPv6 be allocated on each request - in
> > other words, an IPv4 holder would no longer pay 1 fee for
> > IPv4 and 1 fee for IPv6, then would pay a single fee for
> > "Amount of IP addressing" they are using.
> If you compare the IPv4 and IPv6 Initial Allocation and Annual
> Renewal Fees tables in the fee schedule, you'll see that there
> is a correlation.  Since IPv6 initial allocation fees and
> IPv6 renewal fees are waived for members in good standing
> (whether subscriber or non-subscriber members), we're not far
> from this point now.
> I should mention that fee waivers are set to expire at the
> end of this calendar year.
> Lee
> > Ted
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