[ppml] Summary of Trial Balloons for Dealing withIPv4AddressCountdown

Yves Poppe Yves.Poppe at vsnlinternational.com
Mon Apr 2 11:38:01 EDT 2007

I would suggest we try to think outside the v4 vs v6 plane; practically nobody on the user side cares about IP versions; only applications count. 

The tipping point for IPv6 will will be a critical mass of end devices and applications turning on IPv6 by default. As part of the product  replacement cycle IPv4 will suddenly start to fade away at an accelerating rate and few outside our little community will have noticed or even care. My guess for the tipping point?  2010

And while we philosophize, the countdown to the last routable IPv4 address continues. 

IPv6-phobics and diehard legacy product affionados will always be able to take refuge in the interNAT.  Maybe they deserve a reserve space.

Yves Poppe
Director Business Development IP Services
VSNL International

-----Message d'origine-----
De : ppml-bounces at arin.net [mailto:ppml-bounces at arin.net]De la part de
David Williamson
Envoyé : Monday, April 02, 2007 10:58 AM
À : Ted Mittelstaedt
Cc : ppml at arin.net
Objet : Re: [ppml] Summary of Trial Balloons for Dealing

Assuming there's a decent 6-to-4 infrastructure in place, why would
anyone ever want to leave v4?  I don't see it turning into a ghetto for
a very long time.  The installed base is very large, and it will
definitely be a long time before even half of the fortune 500 are off
of IPv4.

Sorry, but the crystal ball I have gets *really* fuzzy at 20-30 years
out, and there's no way to convince me that yours works any better.


On Fri, Mar 30, 2007 at 08:23:06PM -0700, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
> As for reserve space, that would only be relevant if the Internet were to
> not ever switch
> over to IPv6.  Once we hit the 80-90th percentile of sites on the Internet
> reachable via
> IPv6, your going to see a lot of people beginning to block out ALL IPv4
> route advertisements
> merely to save space in their routing tables.
> I do not see how on an Internet that is IPv6, that you could have any
> support for
> a legacy block of routed IPv4.  It would become a ghetto that would be used
> by spammers and all manner of criminals to launch network attacks.  No, the
> sites that feel they cannot switch over to IPv6 will simply have to
> disconnect
> once most of the rest of the world is IPv6.
> Personally I might not mind drivng a car in the US that has a 150 inch width
> but
> the rest of the world isn't going to widen it's roads for me.  Thus it will
> be for the
> sites that want to stay IPv4 forever.
> Ted
>  -----Original Message-----
> From: ppml-bounces at arin.net [mailto:ppml-bounces at arin.net]On Behalf Of
> Azinger, Marla
> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 3:22 PM
> To: Jim Weyand; ppml at arin.net
> Subject: Re: [ppml] Summary of Trial Balloons for Dealing with
> IPv4AddressCountdown
>   Jim-  Thank you for taking time on this issue and trying to organize the
> thoughts a bit.
>   Right now I view alot of the sujbect matter that makes up this issue as
> being resolved by evolution.   That said there is one thing on your list
> below that we could write policy for and one thing that is not on your list
> that needs to be discussed and possibly policy written for.
>   The one thing that you dont have below that I think does need to be
> answered by our community is...should we have a reserve of IPv4 space?  If
> yes, who/what would qualify for the reserved address space?  Are there
> truely entities that will never be able to transition to IPv4?  Who can do
> the research to create a list of valid qualifications?
>   The item on your list below that could use policy is Recycling IPv4
> addresses after we have ran out.  How is the RIR to handle this?  Do they
> put them on a wait list?  Is the wait list first come first serve?  Is it
> prioritized somehow?  Or if we voted to have a reserve are the returned IPv4
> addresses added to the reserve and all that dont qualify under reserve
> standards are told switch to IPv6?
>   Ok.  That is my two cents.
>   Thank you for your time
>   Marla Azinger
>   Frontier Communications
>   [Azinger, Marla]
>    -----Original Message-----
>   From: ppml-bounces at arin.net [mailto:ppml-bounces at arin.net]On Behalf Of Jim
> Weyand
>   Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 2:35 PM
>   To: ppml at arin.net
>   Subject: [ppml] Summary of Trial Balloons for Dealing with IPv4
> AddressCountdown
>     It seems like it is time to start the relatively hard work of actually
> developing alternative policy proposals to deal with the IPv4 Address
> Exhaustion Issue.  It is too late to prepare proposals for the April meeting
> but we have about 5 months before the cutoff for the October meeting.  I
> have never written a proposal to any of the governing bodies but my guess it
> will take at least that long to: gather a group of like-minded individuals;
> negotiate the details of what to propose; write the proposal; seek feedback;
> rewrite the proposal; etc, etc until the proposal is either accepted or made
> irrelevant by another proposal.
>     I find myself struggling with how to convert the suggestions and
> comments on this list into actual policy proposals.
>     I think it is useful at this point to list the different trial balloons
> and proposals that have been suggested and discussed regarding IPv4 address
> exhaustion.  If you have a favorite that I have missed, send it to me
> privately and I will send out a revised summary in a week or so.
>     1)       Policy Proposal 2007-12: IPv4 Countdown Policy Proposal - I
> believe this is the only proposal that can be voted on at the upcoming
> meeting in April.  The full text can be found at:
> http://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/2007_12.html.  This proposal will, "Set
> the date for termination of (IPv4) allocations and the date of announcement"
> .  This proposal specifically does not address IP address recycling except
> to say that, "Recovery of unused address space should be discussed
> separately."
>     2)       An informal proposal to not make any changes to current policy
> until absolutely necessary
>     3)       An informal proposal to encourage address recycling by
> increasing ARIN dues
>     4)       Several similar informal proposals to encourage recycling by
> empowering ARIN to more actively police the use of IPv4 addresses by various
> means
>     5)       An informal proposal to change the nature of assigned IPv4
> addresses to something similar to real property
>     6)       An informal proposal to ask holders of unused address IPv4
> addresses to voluntarily return the addresses
>     7)       Several variants of informal proposals to start assigning IPv6
> space with IPv4
>     8)       An informal proposal to get endusers to demand access to IPv6
> networks by creating a media storm similar to Y2K.
>     It is time to make up your mind, roll up your sleeves and get to work.
> The current policies for dealing with IPv4 Addresses are not causing a
> crisis... yet.  It is however an urgent issue and extremely important.

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