[ppml] whither 2005-1 (was: Policy without consensus?)

[Lea Roberts]

(I wonder if the "wither" was a Freudian slip...  :-)

On Mon, 23 Jan 2006, Marshall Eubanks wrote:

> Hello;
>
> On Jan 23, 2006, at 9:58 PM, Lea Roberts wrote:
>
> > (still trying to get 2005-1 back in the title... :-)
> >
> > On Mon, 23 Jan 2006, Daniel Golding wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> We may have to change routing paradigms at some point. When we
> >> approach that
> >> scaling limit, it can be considered and examined. We are busy
> >> worrying about
> >> being able to route the entire IPv6 space. The funny thing is,
> >> unless there
> >> is a reasonable allocation policy, IPv6 will end up on the dust
> >> heap of
> >> history.
> >>
> >> Some folks assume that enterprises are willing to swallow a lack
> >> of PI space
> >> and multihoming. Wrong - they are not and will not now or in the
> >> future.
> >> They buy carrier services - and they will not buy IPv6 services
> >> without PI
> >> space and true multihoming.
> >
> >> If we can't allocate IPv6 space to enterprises, then its time to
> >> scrap IPv6
> >> and start again. There is really no middle case in the real world.
> >
> > I think this was the one clear lesson from Orlando and why I felt
> > that the
> > first step for 2005-1 would be to address large organizations.  maybe
> > there's not even consensus there, but I had hoped...	sorry,	    /Lea
> >
>
> My feeling is that the lack consensus was caused primarily  by those
> who thought that this was not enough.
> I could be wrong...
>
In Orlando we heard from the "this is too much" folks...
In L.A. we heard from the "this is too restrictive" folks...

if the pendulum swings all the way back, I fear the "this is too much"
folks will once again step up to the mics...  maybe I'm wrong and the time
is right for those of you who believe that there should be "equal"
policies between IPv4 and IPv6?		we'll see, I guess,      /Lea

> Marshall
>
> >> - Daniel Golding
> >>
> >> On 1/23/06 9:24 PM, "Marshall Eubanks" <tme at multicasttech.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I would care more, at present at least, that the IPv6 routing table
> >>> actually get USED. At present, it is, what, 1% of the total ?
> >>>
> >>> One thing we learned in multicast is not to worry about problems
> >>> caused
> >>> by success until you actually have something like success.
> >>>
> >>> Regards
> >>> Marshall
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Jan 23, 2006, at 6:11 PM, Lea Roberts wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> so do you gentlemen believe that we should allow unlimited
> >>>> allocation of
> >>>> IPv6 PI space to whomever wants to multihome and just consider the
> >>>> possible routing table scaling problems to be something that
> >>>> will be
> >>>> dealt with later?  and you also don't worry about carrying over the
> >>>> "IPv4
> >>>> early adopter bonus" into the brave new IPv6 world?  assuming of
> >>>> course
> >>>> that the policy might have to be more restrictive later?
> >>>>
> >>>> just curious,    /Lea
> >>>>
> >>>> On Mon, 23 Jan 2006, Bill Woodcock wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>       On Mon, 23 Jan 2006, Howard, W. Lee wrote:
> >>>>>>> Well, the last PP 2005-1 was completely unworkable. I
> >>>>>>> supported it because
> >>>>>>> it was better than nothing - but only barely. (Many) People
> >>>>>>> who voted for it
> >>>>>>> were holding their noses and voting yes in the hope of
> >>>>>>> improving it later.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Yup, that's certainly true of me, and of everyone else I know who
> >>>>> voted
> >>>>> for it.  It wasn't acceptable as voted, but there was nothing else
> >>>>> on the
> >>>>> table, and nothing else we could vote for.  Yes, that's a really
> >>>>> major
> >>>>> problem.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> That puts us in a difficult position.  The process says we can
> >>>>>> only ratify a policy is there is evidence of consensus.  The
> >>>>>> only exception would be in case of an emergency, and I think
> >>>>>> we're a couple of years from an emergency.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I think we're a couple of years into an emergency.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>                                 -Bill
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>
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> >>
> >>
> >
>