[ppml] Proposed Policy: IPv6 HD ratio/ Really public involvment
Scott.Shackelford at cox.com
Scott.Shackelford at cox.com
Wed May 11 13:22:02 EDT 2005
Agreed. See....you said what I was thinking. ;-)
It's what I've referred to in the past (and which has many applications)
as the 80/20 rule in that 80% of the discussion and activity is
generated by 20% of the population or attendees.
There is no way around the fact that there tend to be cliques among and
within the ARIN community, but that's not to say that it's any one
person or committees fault. Naturally, birds of a feather.......well,
you know the rest.
In the few times that I've been to the microphone or have perhaps tried
to engage in an offline conversation, I've always found openness and
interest from other members, AC folk and the like. It appears to me that
the nature of this community has been that the same people are rehashed
in their roles and capacities mainly because they're interested in
making a difference....which is the point to begin with, right?
To Michaels end, I agree that it may not be a bad idea to come up with
an idea to try and introduce other members to participate, but I seem to
recall that outreaching efforts such as this have often times fallen
short of the desired expectations. At which point you have to ask if
it's worth the time and/or energy to reach out beyond the standard
methods that are in place or do you just continue with what you have?
IP Engineer/IP Administrator
From: owner-ppml at arin.net [mailto:owner-ppml at arin.net] On Behalf Of
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 12:32 PM
To: Howard, W. Lee; Michael.Dillon at radianz.com; ppml at arin.net
Subject: RE: [ppml] Proposed Policy: IPv6 HD ratio/ Really public
>From my experience I have found there are a large number of people
within the Internet Community that read about 75% of these postings.
They also form an opinion. However, they refrain from commenting. Why?
I have been told by many..."because you already said what I was
thinking" or "because I dont like speaking or commenting in public forum
so I just wait until someone else says what I'm thinking."
Now granted, this leaves those of us that do publicly participate
thinking there is only a small number of us who pay attention and voice
our concerns...when really...people use those of us that are comfortable
with "public forum" to do their talking.
I'm sure if someone felt their "views" were not being stated by someone
else already...they would speak up. That is how I ended up at the mic
for the first time several conferences ago. This is also what brought
several government offices to the last conference and up to the Mic.
Maybe we should adjust our view. Right now there are some who view a low
number of "public speakers" as a bad thing. Maybe, it is actually a
sign of success? Maybe those that do speak up publically already have a
wide variety of opinions therefore leaving the rest of the internet
community satisified that their concerns are already being voiced?
Just a thought.
From: owner-ppml at arin.net [mailto:owner-ppml at arin.net]On Behalf Of
Howard, W. Lee
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 7:51 AM
To: 'Michael.Dillon at radianz.com'; ppml at arin.net
Subject: RE: [ppml] Proposed Policy: IPv6 HD ratio
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-ppml at arin.net [mailto:owner-ppml at arin.net] On
> Behalf Of Michael.Dillon at radianz.com
> Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 8:56 AM
> To: ppml at arin.net
> Subject: Re: [ppml] Proposed Policy: IPv6 HD ratio
> How many people who are not current or trustees or AC
> members, actually participate in ARIN policy discussions and
> what percentage of the membership does that represent? In my
> opinion it is miniscule and that is a bad thing.
It looks to me like people become AC and BoT members because
they participate. So, when members of the public participate,
they're asked to run for election; when elected, they become
"31337" and should no longer particpate?
> This community is primarily composed of the industry elite.
Only by virtue of being composed of the people who post.
> In England that community of consensus used to be called
> "the nobility". Later it was referred to as the "landed
> gentry". Elites can form communities, but ARIN has a duty to
> its members and to the larger community of Internet users, to draw in
> participation from a wider circle. I don't see that happening
> and in fact, over the past 2 years, I see the circle
> diminishing in size somewhat.
Economic downturn, corporate downsizing, more work per person. . .
people don't have as much time to read and post to mailing lists.
> For instance, I reccognize the name of every person who is
> currently on the AC and I believe I have personally met
> all but two of them even though I don't get to very many
> industry conferences (e.g. NANOG, ARIN, RIPE). Average of one
> a year. To me that indicates too much concentration of
> old-timers and members of a small closed group.
Part of the problem is that we have people who have too much
> In a body
> with 15 members serving an industry as big as the North
> American Internet, I believe that there should be more people
> who I have never heard of. It is not necessary for people to
> be ARIN groupies or industry old-timers in
> order to make a solid contribution on the AC. There needs
> to be more diversity of views and more diversity of
> backgrounds in the mix.
There's something concrete you can do about this:
> planned actions of ARIN. I believe that this oversight
> role is SEVERELY impaired because there is no ARIN
> members forum. If there was such a forum, you would see
> it proposing things from the IP network operators'
> point of view, and then the public comment on this list
> would temper those proposals with the public's point
> of view.
arin-discuss at arin.net
"Provides a forum for the member community to discuss ARIN-specific
such as fee structures and internal policies."
Huh, what do you know, the most recent post was from Michael Dillon,
Oct 24, 2003.
> > there is a completely open and transparent process with no
> > ARIN members who are interested in policy, can and do speak
> up on this
> > list.
> The Communist Party of the Soviet Union was similarly open
> to comment with no exclusions. However, in practice, it was
> rare for such comments to be made. The end result is that the
> organization ossified, made lots of stupid decisions, and was
> eventually destroyed when people discovered that they didn't
> have to put up with it any more. It is not enough for an
> organization to be open on paper. It needs to be seen to be
> open in actual practice. And I don't think this is happening
> with ARIN. I think ARIN is beginning to ossify because it lacks a
> supply of new blood with new ideas.
I think we're pretty well open to new contributions. Frequently,
when someone posts for the first time, they get a couple of
private messages saying, "Thanks for posting! Keep it up!"
Same with comments at the mike at the public policy meetings. We
love new people.
So, all you lurkers, say something!
> --Michael Dillon
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