[ppml] 2005-1:Multi-national Business Enablement

[Owen DeLong]

Terry,
	One of us is not understanding the other.  A global corporation,
in my opinion, usually _IS_ an ISP for it's various departments, VPN
users, etc.  Regardless of the number of external ISPs that they peer
with (paid or otherwise), they _ARE_ an ISP themselves.

	Now, for the ones that aren't, they are multiple islands of
connectivity linked by VPNs.  In this case, each island is either going
to be using one or more PA blocks, or, will be multihomed.  In the case
of a multihomed island, they would be an ORG qualifying under my intent
for 2005-1.  In the case of a single-homed island, I believe existing
PA solutions are as adequate as current V4 solutions.

	I'd like to better understand where the disconnect between what I
have said in the past and your expression in the quoted message.  Currently,
from my viewpoint, your comment does not make sense to me as a response
to my statements.

Owen


--On Sunday, May 1, 2005 21:06 -0700 "Davis, Terry L" 
<terry.l.davis at boeing.com> wrote:

> Owen
>
> I think Fred is describing reality for those of us that have global
> networks.  Maybe you have a point on the /64's; that could be an option.
>
> But sorry, no global corporation is going to accept a single ISP
> solution as currently dictated; not one of us would survive trying to
> explain this to our Boards.  That is reality whether the routing works
> or not!!  And it is the crux of whether v6 can advance or not.
>
> Take care
> Terry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Owen DeLong [mailto:owen at delong.com]
> Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2005 12:29 AM
> To: Jeroen Massar; Wettling, Fred
> Cc: ppml at arin.net
> Subject: Re: [ppml] 2005-1:Multi-national Business Enablement
>
>> Let's make a nice normal typical example of a 'multi-national
> business':
>>
>> Thus there is a company lets name it Example Corp.
>> This company has offices (read: sites) all around the world (New York,
>> Amsterdam, Paris, London, Tokyo, Canberra, Seoul, Lima, etc). Every
> site
>> has their own admins so they want a /48 per site, just like every
>> enduser with a dsl line, cellphone, or whatever connectivity method
> gets
>> a /48. As this company is large it also has a lot of employees, and
>> these like to dial in to the company network using VPN's. Thus
> everytime
>> a employee connects, this employees network wants to get connected to
>> the company network and thus the VPN gets a /48 routed over it too.
>>
> Um... generally, the company should be giving /64s to the employees,
> VPNs,
> etc., not /48s.  Every end user with a DSL line, generally, should also
> be
> getting a /64 unless they have need of multiple networks, in which case,
> a /48 would be justified.
>
>> Effectively this company will thus need a /32 or similar large sized
>> block, just like Google and Microsoft amongst others already have.
>>
> Not necessarily, however, this example is _NOT_ the example that 2005-1
> is targeted for.  This example could be an LIR.  Now, if the company
> wants
> to treat each site as a separate ORG, then, those sites might,
> individually
> be eligible for /48s under 2005-1.
>
>> Now a fun part. The site in Lima doesn't have that much connectivity,
> it
>> has only a 2mbit SAT uplink. The site in Paris is also not very well
>> connected, only a 10mbit leased line.
>>
>> The webservers need a 1Gbit connection, because a lot of French people
>> are connecting to it etc. Those webservers are located in New York.
>>
>> Now where are you going to do your BGP announcements?
>>
>> Do remind that the company gets a single /32 and are not supposed to
> be
>> announcing multiple /48's out of that, as that will break the whole
> idea
>> of aggregation. Also keep in mind that if you only announce it in New
>> York that traffic from the employees summer house in Nice will flow
> over
>> New York to Paris, introducing a nice 160ms latency for his SSH
>> connection. If you announce it in Paris, without limiting it to the
>> peers, because then you introduce the latency again, then a lot of
>> french people and surrounding areas will go over that teeny 10mbit
>> leased line, while they all might want to download that super cool new
>> product advertisement movie, which does fit over the 1Gbit pipe at the
>> webservers but does not fit over the 10mbit leased line...
>>
> If you're going to be an LIR, it comes with the responsibility for
> building a backbone sufficient to meet your Intradomain connectivity
> needs.  If your dealing with multiple organizations that are diversly
> connected, then, topologically they are many small organizations,
> not one large one.
>
> Owen



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