[ppml] Any backbones that do route IPv6?

[Whipple, Scott (CCI-Atlanta)]

I would agree the examples you give below of why backbones haven't deployed
v6 yet are accurate but I think you could also use those same reasons why a
small ISP or end-user wouldn't deploy it as well.  I would disagree that the 
guidelines for receiving a block of v6 is why we aren't seeing nation wide 
deployment.  As a X-large ISP I would be glad to deploy v6 if I thought it 
would be profitable for the company.  IPv6 at this point is not a necessity 
that's why there isn't deployment with backbone providers small ISPs or end-users.  

-----Original Message-----
From: John M. Brown [mailto:john at chagres.net]
Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 3:44 PM
To: 'Alec H. Peterson'; 'Mury'; ppml at arin.net
Subject: RE: [ppml] Any backbones that do route IPv6?


I think you are missing the point Alec.

Backbones won't deploy because:

* There isn't a demand for it
* Cost to upgrade IOS images
* Cost to train people on how to use it
* Cost to upgrade NOC and other OSS tools


The cost items are related to people not demanding the 
service.  As demand grows the relevance of cost to deploy
goes down as a function of potential revenue from a new
product/service offering.

What we have today is a policy that is preventing the 
end users from starting to use the technologies.

Lets take an example from the software distribution market.

The players:

Quarterdeck, makers of a memory management tool and Xwindows code

TechData, Ingram, SoftSel, all distributors

CompUSA, ComputerLand, Freds Bait and Software, retailers

Alex, John, Ray and Barb, end users looking for some software
that will manage memory for them.


Now folks like TD, Ingram and others typically don't start
selling someones product unless they can see, pull or the
software company can show push.

Typically you want more PULL thru the channel than you want
PUSH.  

That translates into people (end sites) USING AND WANTING
the product that the order it.


With respect to v6, there is no customer demand for it, 
retailers (ISP's) aren't stocking it, and backbones (distributors)
aren't stocking it or making it avail for sale.

Early adopters (end clients) can't find it and have to make
without.

The policy today places barriers to sites that wish to really 
do work with v6. 

In the end you have a stalled out product that needs some
PUSH (more relaxed policy letting more folks get space),
so that PULL will happen and the distributors (backbones)
will start to offer it.

cheers

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-ppml at arin.net [mailto:owner-ppml at arin.net] On 
> Behalf Of Alec H. Peterson
> Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 1:32 PM
> To: Mury; ppml at arin.net
> Subject: Re: [ppml] Any backbones that do route IPv6?
> 
> 
> --On Thursday, January 9, 2003 14:35 -0600 Mury 
> <mury at goldengate.net> wrote:
> 
> >
> > There was some speculation that backbones were or were not routing 
> > IPv6. I've checked with Genuity and Qwest and both have 
> told me they 
> > have no plans to support the routing of IPv6.
> >
> > Does anyone know of a backbone that will route IPv6?
> >
> > I know this does not directly pertain to policy, but if 
> it's true that 
> > no backbones will route IPv6 than perhaps a policy needs to 
> be created 
> > to encourage them to do so.
> 
> I think you're missing the big picture here Mury.
> 
> Simply acquiring IPv6 space is not preventing its deployment. 
>  There are 
> many, many more issues out there surrounding its deployment.  
> We could pay 
> backbones $10k each and give each of them a /33 of IPv6 
> address space and 
> they still wouldn't deploy it.
> 
> Alec
> 
> --
> Alec H. Peterson -- ahp at hilander.com
> Chief Technology Officer
> Catbird Networks, http://www.catbird.com
>