[ppml] POC verification process

Azinger, Marla marla_azinger at eli.net
Thu Aug 14 12:05:27 EDT 2003

Bill-  You are not the one and only that has done this.  We did the same
things because we had a company that was resposible for connecting a large
number of seperate 911 dispatch locations.  All these locations had already
utilized the private IP space and public IP's were the only way to avoid

Originally I had thought a proposal would have been needed in order to use
the public ips for private use.  However, after talking with several board
members I discovered that it wasnt necessary and that use of the IP's this
way was plenty justified.

Marla Azinger
Electric Lightwave

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Van Emburg [mailto:arin-member at quadrix.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 6:53 PM
To: ppml at arin.net
Subject: Re: [ppml] POC verification process

What each of you who is following an argument similar to Ian's appears
to be missing is that it is a very real problem for enterprises that are
interconnected to avoid conflicting IP space, even within RFC 1918
addresses.  In any case, they certainly don't globally coordinate their
use of the private IP space.

It is also not possible to simply grab a slice of public IP space, even
though the networks involved will not connect to the Internet.  This is
because the enterprise would lose the ability to communicate with a
piece of the Internet, since they would be routing that slice of
addresses to a private network instead.

At a previous venture, we used a slice of public IP space assigned to us
for a network that would never see Internet-routed packets.  The reason
for this was that we were interconnecting the private networks of
multiple customers.  Each customer made use of the private IP space, and
their various uses of it conflicted with each other.  All of them needed
to get packets to our back end network.  The only way to ensure that a
conflict of addressing could be avoided was to use addresses that would
never be used on any customer's private network, and that would never
need to be routed from our own internal network to the Internet.  The
only way to do *that* is with a slice of public IP space that we *know*
is never going to be used by anyone else -- one that we had assigned to us.

Do you understand the issue?  I happen to think that the idea presented
here is an excellent one, as it handles one of the largest examples of
such a case.  I would venture to guess that I was not the first one to
think of doing as we did in my example above....
				     -- Bill Van Emburg
					Quadrix Solutions, Inc.
Phone: 732-235-2335, x7016		(mailto:bve at quadrix.com)
Fax:   732-235-2336			(http://quadrix.com)
		The eBusiness Solutions Company

Ian Baker wrote:
 > ----- Original Message -----
 > From: <Michael.Dillon at radianz.com>
 > To: <ppml at arin.net>
 > Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 3:11 PM
 > Subject: Re: [ppml] POC verification process
 >>>I would suggest that your target customers would be best served by a
 >>>consortium-led directory made up of the main players in the 
industry, and
 >>>that - therefore - this isn't really a valid topic for discussion here.
 > <snip>
 >>Now what I am proposing here is an RIR-like organization to serve the
 >>financial services industry. That is something which does not currently
 >>exist although there are precedents in the way SITA was given space for
 >>the air-traffic industry and the way that the North American cable
 >>was given a /8. Before one can reasonably discuss this with the companies
 >>which would form this type of new registry, one first needs to have some
 >>idea of how to go about getting an allocation of space. That is a matter
 >>of public policy so I am discussing it here. Also, I suspect that most
 >>organizations who would be part of the said consortium are also ARIN
 >>so it does no harm to broach the subject in this forum.
 > Hmm? If there is only one address space (something I dispute), and 
 > by your comments concerning Reuters, then I would be very interested 
to hear
 > the reasons as to why just one market sector (financial) should justify
 > special attention over all other people and organizations on the planet.
 >>By the way, no matter how hard we try, it is not possible any more to
 >>a private IP network that is not connected to the Internet.

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