[ppml] Re: Independent space from ARIN
Michael.Dillon at radianz.com
Michael.Dillon at radianz.com
Tue Apr 22 10:44:05 EDT 2003
This NANOG thread is bringing up some stuff that we really do need to deal
On Sun, Apr 13, 2003 at 08:58:09PM -0400, Jeff McAdams wrote:
> Either ARIN's policies are screwed up beyond even what I thought to
> begin with, or their communications with customers/ISPs/whatever is
> absolutely pitiful. Most likely, both.
>From what I've seen, 1% of the ARIN using population knows how ARIN works
and how to get what they want, and 99% of the ARIN using population lives
in either a) fear of dealing with ARIN for things that they technically
qualify for, and/or b) utter loathing and hatred from past experiences.
Unfortunately, the people who are capable of changing things are the ones
who fall into the 1% category, hence they never see the problem or need.
The "public policy" forums like ARIN-PPML don't help matters either, as
any form of common sense seems to be drowned out amongst the net kooks and
Meanwhile, the 99% category sits around wondering about things like:
* Why does the ARIN email system takes an hour just to generate an
* Why does it take days, and sometimes many days, to process a form and at
the very least get a simple YAY or NAY on the syntax so you can continue
submitting without finding out 99 forms later that your first form had a
typo and invalidated all the rest.
* Why does it seem like no human touches a form until after 4PM Eastern?
* Why does the theoretically automated form processing for things like
SWIPs still take over an hour to get a YAY or NAY email through.
* Why does it take a week to process a payment?
* Why have I NEVER been able to submit an ARIN request without receiving
a response asking for information I included in the original request.
* Why do we have to submit to the equivalent of an IP anal probe, and
cough up extremely detailed documentation on network architectures and
the use of every IP address.
* Why any of this "police state" is necessary given that the shortage of
IPv4 addresses seems to be artifically created. There are still tons of
IP addresses that are either unallocated, unreasonably allocated (hey
Merit, lets see your documentation on 22.214.171.124/8 :P), or long dead and
never reclaimed. Only 32% of the available IPv4 space is being
announced, where is the shortage?
* Why do we have to pay very large sums of money ($2500+ per year at a
minimum) for this wonderful IP policing service. Where in the heck does
all that money go?
* Why are we expected to continue the status quo of paying thousands of
dollars for addresses in IPv6? Without the threat of an artifical
shortage to "manage", what possible reason is there to justify ARIN's
existance or fees? Why do we all get the feeling IPv6 isn't an end to
the expenses, but rather a vast new market of registration and renewal
* http://www.arin.net/library/corp_docs/budget.html - Where does the $1M
in "fringe benefits" go? Where does the extra $1.5M in revenue go? Why
does ARIN need to spend so much in travel, etc?
* Why does ARIN have no problem assigning large blocks of unallocated
space (usually 2x or more) around a new "customer" to accomodate for
future growth, but have policies preventing ISPs from doing the same
(aka 80% utilization for more space).
* Etc etc etc, not counting the problems that have already been mentioned.
Yes, if you take the time to try and figure out what goes on inside the
minds of ARIN, you'll find that some of the people actually do try to be
useful human beings. But most of us don't have the time or desire to do
that, we just want a system that works. I don't think the current system
meets anyone's standard for useful, efficient, or cost effective.
Richard A Steenbergen <ras at e-gerbil.net> http://www.e-gerbil.net/ras
GPG Key ID: 0xF8B12CBC (7535 7F59 8204 ED1F CC1C 53AF 4C41 5ECA F8B1 2CBC)
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