[ppml] RE: With additional comments on global policy RE: Encouraging return of legacy space

John M. Brown john at chagres.net
Fri Oct 4 17:23:24 EDT 2002

See below

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mury [mailto:mury at goldengate.net] 
> But, having contributed, if you can call it that, I wonder if 
> I've done any good.  Many times it feels like a few of us are 
> just bantering back and forth.  Do any of the comments here 
> ever get summarized and taken to meetings?

Comments are important.  Banter is also good as it helps to
define things, expose concerns and issues.

I believe that the entire ARIN AC, and BOD along with staff
receive all the messages posted to the PPML.  

So dialog is viewed and received.  It may not be taken back 
as specific comments to meetings, but it is used to help
the process.
> How could someone in my shoes actually get some sort of 
> policy proposed, whether it's a good idea or just plain sucks?


Is the place to start.

> It would also be helpful for some of the more knowledgable 
> people chime in with background and concrete numbers on 
> certain issues.  

Much of the "numeric data" is already on the ARIN web site.

Specific questions can be asked here, or to specific AC members.

> think there should be more.  As far as I know, staff memebers 
> from ARIN do not do much participation.  Maybe they are 

Staff does read these list, but are not normally active.
AC and BOD members also read and typically post.

> I think people tend to get involved more when they actually 
> see their time is not being wasted.

True, hence the need to make sure that time isn't wasted and
that good discussions happen.

> I'm also a little concerned about the message that just went 
> out about keeping the conversations on topic.  This has the 
> feeling of being corraled.  "We want your input, but only on 
> things we have already decided on, and only if you agree with 
> us."  Now of course I stated that as an extreme, but take a 
> step back and think about how it might feel to us.

I doubt that was the message Member Services wished to deliver.
It is important to make sure open lists, such as this one, 
stay focused and topical.  Basicly that means its important to
make sure we don't start having posts that do not add value 
to the list.  I believe some of the recent posts have been off
topic even if they appear to be "on topic".   

List troll's are bad.  They waste valueable time.
> Case in point:  The whole discussion about the legacy IP 
> space.  Are we just trying to brush that one under the rug?

Legacy IP space is a difficult and touchy issue.  There are legal
issues, operational issues, and fiscal issues.

I do not beleive any RIR is attempting to "sweep this under
the rug".   

Legacy IP space (aka Swamp Space) is filled with bad contact
data which makes it hard to contact these folks.  ARIN and the
other RIR's have been working to get databases clean up, alloction
records corrected.

While it may seem easy to "fix", I'd rather see the RIR's taking
a SLOW approach to this process, than a fast approach that could
cause damage.

> When talking about certain policies it is helpful to view 
> them in light of the whole picture, that is why these other 
> topics come up.  I'm a big picture person and to be told that 
> something is off-topic makes no sense to me.  Is the topic 
> only /24 allocations?  Or is it also how do we best utilize 
> IP space to meet the needs of the Internet community at large?

Its the best way to use the space, IMHO.  Some believe there is
a need for /24 allocations.   Unless you are a very special
case (Read the micro alloc policy), IMHO /20's or maybe even
/21's are about as small as it should go, and to service providers
not end user orgs.  (My personal opinion here)
> I'm trying to be involved.  I've made my suggestions.  I've 
> watched *many* other people make similiar suggestions.  I 
> haven't heard much back.

Others making suggestions is "hearing back".  Some members of the
AC have posted thoughts and comments as well.
> You made a closing comment about how ARIN is a bottom up 
> based membership.  
> This butt (me) would like some real feedback when things are 
> suggested by myself or other people.  Or, I need some real 
> tools to take my suggestion to another level.  Or, you can 
> just tell me to get lost now and I'll save us all some time.  
> I have plenty of other things to do and people to annoy.

By posting and staying involved you are seeing the results of 
your involvement.  Mine, and possibly others follow-ups are
also evidence of the value of that involvement.

I hope there will be more of "yous" posting.

Attending the meetings is also important.  Currently its
basicly the same 100 or so people that showed up to the 
last meeting that will show up to this meeting, maybe a 
few new faces, we hope.

Thank you for being involved!  Please continue!

John Brown

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