[ppml] ARIN Policy Proposal 2002-9

Newton, Justin JNewton at corp.untd.com
Wed Oct 2 15:00:31 EDT 2002

	What is the difference between suddenly charging a customer an
incremental cost for servicing an IP allocation, or an ISP suddenly jacking
up the price on a service they are already charging you for?  An ISP needs
to recoup the total costs for providing service to you.  What line item they
bill those costs as should not impact ARIN policies.

-----Original Message-----
From: A. M. Salim [mailto:msalim at localweb.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 11:53 AM
To: 'ppml at arin.net'
Subject: RE: [ppml] ARIN Policy Proposal 2002-9


Mury, with respect, you seem to indicate that changing ISP's is like
changing a pair of socks.  If your ISP decides to jack up their IP price
on you or suddenly start charging $10/mo per IP all you have to do is shop
around a little and !poof! you are on a new ISP.

Which planet does this happen on, just curious?

I believe the whole lively discussion regarding /24 allocations stems from
one basic fact:  small ISP's feel very insecure about the fact that they
have NO control over what their upstream ISP may decide to do from one
month to the next, or from one renewal period to the next, regarding
allocation and charging for IP space.

Upstream ISP's are already charging for, and we small ISP's are already
happily paying for all the internet and services being provided such as
bandwidth, routing etc. so the argument that charging an additional amount
for IP's is somehow justified is very weak at best.  Even $1 per IP per
year could be considered high by many let alone the astronomical $10 or
$15 per month that has been talked about on this list.  I can certainly
understand justifying IP allocations.  But not IP fees, over and above
what is being paid to ARIN by the upstream ISP in the form of annual dues,
processing fees etc.

Small ISP's need some assurance or price protection against such tactics.
Maybe ARIN is not the right platform, but ARIN has set a precedent by
charging for IP's in the first place (directly or indirectly) so ARIN is a
good starting point for this discussion.  True there are lot of ISP's out
there, competition is tight etc. but in many markets you have little
choice who your ISP is going to be, and even less choice in changing ISP's
as it is costly and time consuming proposition to change ISP's, possibly
moving all your equipment and renumbering all your networks.

best regards
Mike Salim

On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Mury wrote:
> The pricing policies of ISPs is purely based on supply and demand.  There
> are enough ISPs out there where the market is dictating a fair price,
> which for the last years has been too low.  Look at all the ISPs going out
> of business as proof.  When the number of ISPs stabalize the pricing for
> Internet services will fall close to where they should be.  If they rise
> too high we will see a influx of new opportunists to drive the price back
> down.

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