FW: [ppml] Last Call for Comment: Policy Proposal 2002-6

Adam Rothschild asr at latency.net
Fri Nov 15 11:43:23 EST 2002

On 2002-11-14-21:54:08, Jill Kulpinski <Jill.Kulpinski at cw.com> wrote:
> still having mail issues...so my apologies if this is posted more than once.

Wouldn't happen to have anything to do with your mail server being
blacklisted by SPEWS due to Cable and Wireless employees spamming
folks promoting real estate/MLM scams, would it? ;) Or your clearly
documented inability to shut down big-revenue-generating spamming
customers?  But, I digress...

> how do i take action against people who don't respond?  i am very
> pro-active in making sure our resources are used appropriately, but
> how do you tell someone they are not allowed to post a listing, they
> need to change their listing, or also...  force people to not use
> these blacklists?

Wow, could you possibly stray any further off-topic for this list?

In short, you don't.

Sure, you could blackhole the IP's of the name servers used by these
blackhole lists.  But it'll hurt customer satisfaction metrics once
folks notice what you're doing, and the lack of sound technical
reasoning behind it.  At the risk of sounding sappy, you could even
describe the resulting customer churn as an "Exodus".

> no matter what we do...some joe-shmo out there could set up a site
> and put any address he wanted to on a list and market it to the
> internet world as a blacklist.  if someone actually trusts and uses
> this list...  that should be their problem.

Exactly.  Such is life.

> BUT i tell a Customer who has a complaint he or whomever
> he serves should not use the listing...and i get 'but everyone....even the major providers use it'.
> what can i do....for every list that i get some innocent person off of, who is to stop some other 
> person for putting mr. innocent on another list?
> and how am i ever supposed to be able to guarantee to a Customer that no one is blacklisting their space?
> it is not possible to provide this guarantee, so what is the solution...and both short term and long term 
> would be great.

This is very cut and dried.  You have two choices:

  1) Run an efficient abuse department.  When you receive complaints
     of spamming customers, act in accordance with your AUP,
     including ultimately disconnecting them in a timely fashion.

  2) Continue to do what you're doing now, and deal with the
     consequences of innocent customers being allocated blacklisted IP

Like it not, said blackholes are a fact of life.  When used properly,
they are invaluable tools in helping reduce the amount of e-mail
received from rogue sources.  Rather than try to blackhole the
blackholes, perhaps it's time to step back and give some thought as to
why you're in them to begin with.


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