it justification???

John M. Brown john at
Thu Aug 8 19:04:51 EDT 2002

First example Bob:

Would the customer beable to justify 20 contiguous /28 ?
If so, then I don't think the RIR's care if they are out
of different parts of your alloc's.  Its your IGP, and you
aren't pushing /28's to the nets BGP..

What Bob does with those addresses is between you and Bob
via your contracts and AUP.  That is controlled by your
general business practices.  If Bob or Many Bob's do things
that other private networks dont like, you may see less
connectivity to those other sites.  Either way its not within
the RIR's area of responsiblity to say.  RIR's must be limited
in their scope of policy.

Second Example John:

Does John qualify for 50 IP's ??  Can he do what he
needs with 1, 10, ??  Again, thats more an internal policy
rather than an external.  Some companies will hand out IP's
like they grew on trees, others are more conservative.  If they
can meet the requirements for the RIR's allocation, thats all
they need to worry about. 

Its not the RIR's policy to generally control this directly. 
A RIR can affect a certain amount of control by not issuing
an allocation in the future if the requester has been wasteful.

Third Example, Random IP.

The technology is called DialUp :) or DSL with DHCP....

Sorry, I don't see the need to be so obfusticated, at the
network layer at least..

john brown

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-ppml at [mailto:owner-ppml at] On 
> Behalf Of Jill Kulpinski
> Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 4:43 PM
> To: ppml at; arin-discuss at
> Subject: it justification???
> Importance: High
> > Hello,
> > We have had a few cases over the past few months that I 
> would like to 
> > make sure I understand ARIN's policy regarding.  I would 
> also like to 
> > hear the opinions of the community.
> > 
> > Bob wants address space, say 20 /28s that are as 
> 'non-contiguous' as 
> > possible (ideal is unique first octet #,  lesser preference 
> is unique 
> > in second octet, etc.) in order to 'mask' themselves from 
> the person 
> > they are querying so the recipient can not block out a range of 
> > address space and evade Bob.  Bob is performing what would be 
> > considered 'good spam' but I do not think that it is necessarily my 
> > call to be the internet ethics board regarding good and bad 
> queries.  
> > If this uniqueness is required for Bob to be successful as an 
> > enterprise...they are technically justified as there is not 
> currently 
> > a better means of appearing random...does the Hosting Provider have 
> > justification in assignment of non-contiguous space?
> > 
> > John  has a server that he wants to appear to other people as 50 
> > servers and therefore he want 50 addresses for one physical 
> device.  
> > He is trying to access URLs that his users have 
> specifically requested 
> > to be signed up for (i.e. newsletter type deals), but with 
> the amount 
> > of mail John sends on behalf of his Customers from one IP to these 
> > sites, the site may block the IP from the mass mailings.  Does the 
> > Hosting Provider allow multiple addresses per one physical 
> server to 
> > assist in the distribution of mail by not flooding a site with 
> > thousands of queries from one address?
> > 
> > So, is the requirement from a business perspective to mask one's 
> > address through IP randomization of different forms appropriate to 
> > accept?  I am having a hard time knowing where to draw the line at 
> > saying 'nope...not good justification'.  I get the response from 
> > Prospects that they can not do business without being able 
> to appear 
> > anonymous and I do not necessarily feel okay with then telling them 
> > good-bye or recommending a different business.  We have 
> been working 
> > to come up with alternative options for these Customers, 
> but then it 
> > gets to the point of almost designing their network 
> architecture and 
> > systems which was not the aim.  Does the community have any 
> > suggestions on technology available that can provide anonymity  
> > without using a mass amount or dis-contiguous addresses?  
> What are the 
> > thoughts regarding this idea for justification of address 
> space?  Is 
> > there an ARIN policy that applies at this time?  If not, do 
> we need to 
> > develop one?
> > 
> > Any input (constructive please) would be helpful and thanks 
> for your 
> > time. Jill Kulpinski
> > 
> > 

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