<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><div><span><br></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><br><blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; margin-top: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"> <div class="yui_3_7_2_19_1366071571222_63" style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div class="yui_3_7_2_19_1366071571222_64" style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <hr size="1"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Jesse D. Geddis <jesse@la-broadband.com><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Lee Howard <spiffnolee@yahoo.com> <br><b><span style="font-weight:
bold;">Cc:</span></b> Brian Jankovich <bjankovich@vaultnetworks.com>; Jawaid Bazyar <Jawaid.Bazyar@forethought.net>; "arin-discuss@arin.net" <arin-discuss@arin.net> <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Monday, April 15, 2013 6:15 PM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [arin-discuss] IPv6 as justification for IPv4?<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container"><br><div id="yiv5392902656">
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<div>Lee,</div>
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<div>You've just inadvertently argued (I'd say accurately) against the repeated assertions by those in this group that the large ISPs consume fewer man hours than small ISPs. Unlike Owen who's largest 'ISP' he's worked at is netcom in the early 90's I have
worked at worldcom, uunet, and charter communications I happen to know (as you've rightfully pointed out) that x-large ISPs consume enormous amounts of ARIN man hours compared to everyone else.<br><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div class="yui_3_7_2_19_1366071571222_63" style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"><div class="yui_3_7_2_19_1366071571222_64" style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"><div class="y_msg_container"><div id="yiv5392902656"><div><div>No, I said they consume more of the ISP's staff hours. When the IP analyst team at UUNET reported to me, we were very strict about address assignments; nobody got addresses without justification. And yet, the ARIN staff always managed to turn around some pointed questions in less than a day. I've never known how they did that.<br><br></div>
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<div>A flat fee addresses all these concerns. Everyone pays for what they actually use</div>
<div>It discourages many of the ridiculous allocations we all see on a daily basis. Both by ARIN to ISPs and ISPs to customers by the x-large group.</div>
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<div>Lee if you think apple needs a /8 to sell iPhones, ford needs a /8 to sell cars, HP needs a /8 to sell printer ink, and Eli Lilly needs a /8 to sell erections you and the rest of us may have very different ideas of what constitutes waste. <br><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div class="yui_3_7_2_19_1366071571222_63" style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"><div class="yui_3_7_2_19_1366071571222_64" style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"><div class="y_msg_container"><div id="yiv5392902656"><div><div>What do Apple, Ford, and HP's /8s have to do with ARIN fees?<br><br>Lee<br><br></div>
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<br>
Jesse Geddis
<div>LA Broadband LLC</div>
</div>
<div><br>
On Apr 15, 2013, at 2:39 PM, "Lee Howard" <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:spiffnolee@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:spiffnolee@yahoo.com">spiffnolee@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<br>
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<div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt;">
The scrutiny on large ISPs is at least as rigorous as on small ISPs. Large ISPs have a full time person managing IP address records and ARIN requests, and nothing else. That is as it should be.<br>
<br>
Lee<br>
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<font face="Arial" size="2"><b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Brian Jankovich <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:bjankovich@vaultnetworks.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:bjankovich@vaultnetworks.com">bjankovich@vaultnetworks.com</a>><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">To:</span></b> 'Jawaid Bazyar' <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:Jawaid.Bazyar@forethought.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:Jawaid.Bazyar@forethought.net">Jawaid.Bazyar@forethought.net</a>>;
<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:arin-discuss@arin.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:arin-discuss@arin.net">arin-discuss@arin.net</a> <br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Sent:</span></b> Monday, April 15, 2013 4:36 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [arin-discuss] IPv6 as justification for IPv4?<br>
</font></div>
<div class="yiv5392902656y_msg_container"><br>
I agree and doubt ARIN is really holding them to the 3mo justification of<br>
these IP blocks they are procuring.<br>
<br>
Brian Jankovich<br>
President | vaultnetworks<br>
<br>
305.735.8098 x210 | <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:Brian.Jankovich@VaultNetworks.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:Brian.Jankovich@VaultNetworks.com">
Brian.Jankovich@VaultNetworks.com</a><br>
skype: brianvaultnet<br>
<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.vaultnetworks.com/">www.vaultnetworks.com</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Jawaid Bazyar [mailto:<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:Jawaid.Bazyar@forethought.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:Jawaid.Bazyar@forethought.net">Jawaid.Bazyar@forethought.net</a>]
<br>
Sent: Monday, April 15, 2013 3:07 PM<br>
To: <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:arin-discuss@arin.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:arin-discuss@arin.net">
arin-discuss@arin.net</a><br>
Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] IPv6 as justification for IPv4?<br>
<br>
Still, it's a fact that the big players are hoarding immense, unused <br>
IPv4 space, which is why none of them care about IPv6.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 04/15/2013 12:42 PM, Owen DeLong wrote:<br>
> On Apr 15, 2013, at 10:51 , <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:rlc@usfamily.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:rlc@usfamily.net">
rlc@usfamily.net</a> wrote:<br>
><br>
>> You ARE new to this. If you had been around longer, you would have<br>
realized<br>
>> that large players run the show at ARIN. Otherwise, the fees would have<br>
been<br>
>> proportional to the size of the netblocks on IPv4, at least since the<br>
time that<br>
>> people started to come to grips with the mathematics of IPv4.<br>
>><br>
> I don't believe that for a second.<br>
><br>
> I have been an active member of this community since before ARIN was<br>
formed<br>
> and have been active in the ARIN policy process since not long after it<br>
was formed.<br>
><br>
<br>
-- <br>
<br>
Jawaid Bazyar<br>
<br>
President<br>
<br>
ph 303.815.1814<br>
<br>
fax 303.815.1001<br>
<br>
<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:Jawaid.Bazyar@foreThought.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:Jawaid.Bazyar@foreThought.net">Jawaid.Bazyar@foreThought.net</a> <email:<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:Jawaid.Bazyar@foreThought.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:Jawaid.Bazyar@foreThought.net">Jawaid.Bazyar@foreThought.net</a>><br>
<<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.forethought.net/">http://www.foreThought.net</a>><br>
Note our new address: 2347 Curtis St, Denver CO 80205<br>
<br>
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