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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap: break-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;-webkit-line-break: after-white-space'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Apologies, the second sentence should read:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Our demand for IPv6 is low and costs twice the amount as something in higher demand (IPv4).</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Greg Martin [mailto:greg@rhservices.us] <br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, March 14, 2012 5:49 PM<br><b>To:</b> 'Alec Ginsberg'; 'Joseph Conti'; 'Jesse D. Geddis'<br><b>Cc:</b> 'arin-discuss@arin.net'<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [arin-discuss] Status of realigning the IPv6 fee structure?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Adjusting the fee scale to align with IPv4 would help this… We’re paying an extra $1250/yr over what we do for IPv4 resources. Our demand for IPv6 is low and costs twice the amount for something in higher demand.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> arin-discuss-bounces@arin.net [mailto:arin-discuss-bounces@arin.net] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Alec Ginsberg<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, March 14, 2012 5:37 PM<br><b>To:</b> Joseph Conti; Jesse D. Geddis<br><b>Cc:</b> arin-discuss@arin.net<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [arin-discuss] Status of realigning the IPv6 fee structure?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>It would be nice if everyone would cease to worry about revenue (For the moment), and start to consider methods to increase the IPv6 adoption rate (on a global scale), so that it can actually be usable end-to-end on the Internet so that we don't have this IPv4 problem going on forever and ever and ever.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>From: </span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Joseph Conti <<a href="mailto:joseph@media-hosts.com">joseph@media-hosts.com</a>><br><b>Date: </b>Wed, 14 Mar 2012 17:32:21 -0400<br><b>To: </b>"Jesse D. Geddis" <<a href="mailto:jesse@la-broadband.com">jesse@la-broadband.com</a>><br><b>Cc: </b>"<a href="mailto:arin-discuss@arin.net">arin-discuss@arin.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:arin-discuss@arin.net">arin-discuss@arin.net</a>><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [arin-discuss] Status of realigning the IPv6 fee structure?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>If you apply the "invisible hand" theory here, then technically no ISP (or at least small one) should be purchasing any IPv6 at all. IPv6 in it's current state and fee structure doesn't generate any profit for ISP's. The cost of it (by ARIN) should be little to none, until such a time that the equilibrium you mention is possible.<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Being a small ISP, if we had the choice of taking a /36 instead of a /32 and able to pay the same as we do in our x-small category we would have. In-fact, we even asked for a smaller allocation in the first place, but were denied (policy at the time).<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Fact of the matter remains, if an ORG is in an x-small category for IPv4, there should be an equivalent for IPv6 as right now it doubles the annual fee and doesn't generate any revenue in it's current state.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>What we are essentially doing now, is paying double for an allocation that we will likely never outgrow. For larger ISP's this may be different.<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Joseph Conti</span></b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Media-Hosts Inc.</span></b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>On 2012-03-14, at 5:14 PM, Jesse D. Geddis wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>There are two layers of fees<br><br>1. Those charged by ARIN to the carriers.<br>2. Those charged by the carriers to their customers.<br><br>Layer 1 is not for profit as ARIN is, as I said, a steward. Saying ARIN is a geographic monopoly misappropriates the term since it is not a for profit organisation. ARIN's sole purpose is to delegate those resources in a needs baser manner to other organisations.<br><br>Layer 2 is generally for profit. Here is where supply and demand comes into play for address space. If you have limited ipv4 address space you will charge your customer more. If you charge too much they will go elsewhere until an equilibrium is found in the price. This is how the 'invisible hand' operates.<br><br><br>Jesse Geddis<br>LA Broadband LLC<br>ASN 16602<br><br>On Mar 14, 2012, at 2:06 PM, "David Conrad" <<a href="mailto:david@cloudflare.com">david@cloudflare.com</a>> wrote:<br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>On Mar 14, 2012, at 2:57 PM, Jesse D. Geddis wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>ARIN doesn't operate as a free enterprise and this is not done for profit. ARIN is the steward, administrator, of the address space. The fees are to pay for administration and advocacy. The fees charged in the marketplace for that address space is dictated by the free market as it should be. Not by ARIN. <o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>I'm not understanding what you're saying. ARIN is a geographic monopoly. The fees are not dictated by a free market. They are dictated by ARIN.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>-drc<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>_______________________________________________<br>ARIN-Discuss<br>You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br>the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-discuss@arin.net">ARIN-discuss@arin.net</a>).<br>Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br><a href="http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss">http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss</a><br>Please contact <a href="mailto:info@arin.net">info@arin.net</a> if you experience any issues.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>