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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I think what some of the smaller guys are talking about is this.
I know of 1 ISP right now that is in a RURAL, RURAL area. Doing a great job of
providing “cable” speeds to his customers over the air. His upstream has
basically told him to f-off in terms of getting any more IPv4 addresses. He
has 300+ customers, so he doesn’t qualify for a /20. He CAN’T multi-home, because
there literally no other options in his area. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>What is he to do? Now ARIN freely handed out a /32 of IPv6
addresses to him, but that doesn’t do him any good. Should he just throw the
towel in because he isn’t large enough to get more IPv4 addresses? <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Why can he have an IPv6 /32 but is nowhere near large enough for
a /22 in the IPv6 range. Or hell even a /23, he is easily big enough for a
/23. But ARIN’s minimum they will hand is a /20 if you are not multi-homed and
a /22 if you are. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>This guy is screwed until IPv6 is knee deep.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
arin-discuss-bounces@arin.net [mailto:arin-discuss-bounces@arin.net] <b>On
Behalf Of </b>Vaughn Thurman - Swift Systems<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 22, 2009 7:23 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> arin-discuss@arin.net<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [arin-discuss] Good Stewardship by example, I'd like to
RETURN a /20<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Wow, so out come the naysayers... "Shut up you little
fleas. Don't you know that the experts have spoken? Why study the issue
when others have already said it is not worth it."<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>The power of the press and public opinion are pretty
powerful. Does a protracted battle against the interests of small ISP
types or the "Internet community" really suit HP, Apple, or any of
the other space Easters if in the public eye? Think about the good will a
few have gotten on this list by committing to return space.. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>You don't get what you don't ask for.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Try! Aim high and risk falling short. Aiming low
is too easy to succeed at for a group this bright.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span>~Vaughn </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
Sent from my handheld<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>
On Jul 22, 2009, at 7:48 PM, Owen DeLong <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com">owen@delong.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On Jul 22, 2009, at 1:06 PM, Steve Wagner wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>As a note it's not just the
/8's. I am in Idaho. The State of Idaho has a Class B 164.165.0.0 All
State government activities sit behind two different firewalls. <br>
<br>
Micron technology 137.201.0.0. Sits behind firewalls<br>
<br>
And so forth into perpetuity it seems<br>
<br>
In this regard by reclaiming this address space that companies have,
particularly when the coropration sits behind NAT firewalls is unjustified.
The ones I listed above use Private address space behind the
firewall i.e. 10.X.X.X etc. So why then would a company entity that does this
need to retain their public Class A, B, C etc. There is no technical or
administrative justification I can see. <br>
<br>
Nevertheless, there was a comment about pre ARIN and Contract Law.
Unfortunatley this may play the larger role over common sense. <br>
<br>
While this is not the ultimate solution, it certainly can stem the tide for
many years. <br>
<br>
It would be an interesting study to examine the allocated IP address space by
entity and determine how many of these organizations sit behind a NAT firewall,
and only use a small portion of their allocation.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Reclamation has been repeatedly studied, and, in general,
the conclusion matches the following excerpt from a Cisco Journal article:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><a
href="http://www.cisco.com/web/about/ac123/ac147/archived_issues/ipj_8-3/ipv4.html">http://www.cisco.com/web/about/ac123/ac147/archived_issues/ipj_8-3/ipv4.html</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=contentheaderalt><b><span style='font-size:10.5pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#336666'>Reclaiming Allocations</span></b></span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>
<span class=apple-style-span>Another debate occasionally resurfaces about
reclaiming some of the early allocations to further extend the lifetime of IPv4.
Hopefully this article has shown that the ROI for that approach is going to be
extremely low. Discussions around the Internet community show there is an
expectation that it will take several years of substantive negotiation (in
multiple court systems around the globe) to retrieve any /8s. Then following
that effort and expense, the likelihood of even getting back more than a few /8
blocks is very low. Following the allocation growth trend, after several years
of litigation the result is likely to be just a few months of additional
resource added to the pool—and possibly not even a whole month. All this
assumes IANA does not completely run out before getting any back, because
running out would result in pentup demand that could immediately exhaust any returns.</span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>If you can come up with credible figures indicating that
there are at least 28 /8s worth of reclaimable space out there, then,
reclamation efforts might be more interesting, but, I tend to doubt that is the
case. If you can't reclaim at least 14 /8s, you don't even buy an additional
year.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Owen<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
Regards,<br>
Steve Wagner<br>
Vice President of Operations <br>
Syringa Networks, LLC<br>
3795 S Development Ave, Suite 100<br>
Boise, ID 83705<br>
Office: 208.229.6104<br>
Main: 208.229.6100<br>
Emergency: 1.800.454.7214<br>
Fax: 208.229.6110<br>
Email: <a href="mailto:Stwagner@syringanetworks.net">Stwagner@syringanetworks.net</a><br>
Web: <a href="http://www.syringanetworks.net">www.syringanetworks.net</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
"Idaho's Premier Fiber Optic Network" <br>
<br>
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-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href="mailto:arin-discuss-bounces@arin.net">arin-discuss-bounces@arin.net</a>
[<a href="mailto:arin-discuss-bounces@arin.net">mailto:arin-discuss-bounces@arin.net</a>]
On Behalf Of John Osmon<br>
Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 1:43 PM<br>
To: <a href="mailto:arin-discuss@arin.net">arin-discuss@arin.net</a><br>
Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] Good Stewardship by example, I'd like to RETURN a
/20<br>
<br>
On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 01:32:19PM -0400, Joe Maimon wrote:<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal>John Osmon wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal>We're aren't going to save the IPv4 world by returning
space, but<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal>we *will* make it easier on soe folks that are coming to the
table<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal>(relatively) late.<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal>Hate to be a downer, but not at the current burn rate.<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
Actually, I agree -- but don't tell the folks that think getting <br>
a couple of /8s back from HP, Apple, and the DOD is going to significant<br>
difference in the timing of IPv4 exhaustion. :-)<br>
<br>
I still think that anything you aren't using should go back to the<br>
pool that allows new comers a chance to participate in<br>
commerce/communication. I don't, however, think that a slew of <br>
/20s (or /8s) are going to make a big impact.<br>
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Please contact info@arin.net if you experience any issues.<o:p></o:p></p>
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</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>
ARIN-Discuss<br>
You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br>
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