<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Re: [arin-discuss] Food for thought: IPv4 accountability.</TITLE></HEAD><BODY>Sure. Ok. I'm on that immediately. Their security risks alone justify such an action. <br/><br/>Unfortunately the bean counters down the hall, and the guys up on "Mahogany Row" wouldn't quite understand. <br/><br/>I will implement this tomorrow. You hiring??<p>Kelvin Williams<br/>Altus Communications Group, Inc.<br/>Office Direct: 678.369.5968<br/>Office Main: 678.369.5970<br/>Fax: 866.895.8557<br/>Mobile: 678.852.4173<br/><br/>Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone with SprintSpeed<br/><br/></p><p><hr size=2 width=100% align=center tabindex=-1><b>From</b>: John Brown <john@citylinkfiber.com><br><b>Date</b>: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 20:57:32 -0600<br><b>To</b>: <kwilliams@altuscgi.com>; Chris Gotstein<chris@uplogon.com>; Tony Valenti<tony.valenti@powerdnn.com><br><b>Subject</b>: Re: [arin-discuss] Food for thought: IPv4 accountability.<br></font></p><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12.0px'>Stop enabling them :)<BR><BR><BR> On 7/21/09 8:56 PM, "Kelvin Williams" <kwilliams@altuscgi.com> wrote:<BR><BR></SPAN></FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12.0px'>I concur.<BR><BR> But tell that to my Win98 subscribers who refuse to upgrade because their Internet works just fine.<BR> Kelvin Williams<BR> Altus Communications Group, Inc.<BR> Office Direct: 678.369.5968<BR> Office Main: 678.369.5970<BR> Fax: 866.895.8557<BR> Mobile: 678.852.4173<BR><BR> Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone with SprintSpeed<BR><BR><BR><BR> -----Original Message-----<BR> From: Chris Gotstein <chris@uplogon.com><BR><BR> Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 21:53:11<BR> To: Tony Valenti<tony.valenti@powerdnn.com><BR> Cc: <kwilliams@altuscgi.com>; John Brown<john@citylinkfiber.com>; <arin-discuss@arin.net><BR> Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] Food for thought: IPv4 accountability.<BR><BR><BR> Pure IPv6 isn't going to happen overnight, but running dual stack can<BR> happen now. The more IPv6 we can get out there the better.<BR><BR> --<BR> Chris Gotstein<BR> Sr Network Engineer<BR> UP Logon/Computer Connection UP<BR> 500 N Stephenson Ave<BR> Iron Mountain, MI 49801<BR> Phone: 906-774-4847<BR> Fax: 906-774-0335<BR> chris@uplogon.com<BR><BR> Tony Valenti wrote:<BR> > I'm in Omaha, Nebraska.<BR> ><BR> > The big thing to us is that as a content provider, we have to serve our<BR> > content on a network that is compatible with our customers. If we went<BR> > IPV6 on our gear, we'd go out of business because all our customers<BR> > would find a content provider who would serve it on IPs that they could<BR> > access.<BR> ><BR> > It is a lot easier to find a new webhost than it is to change ISPs.<BR> ><BR> > On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 9:43 PM, Kelvin Williams <kwilliams@altuscgi.com<BR> > <a href="mailto:kwilliams@altuscgi.com"><mailto:kwilliams@altuscgi.com></a>> wrote:<BR> ><BR> > Net-Neutrality is something I fully support. The previous example<BR> > was just saying, if ARIN can't help us little guys, we can band<BR> > together and help ourselves.<BR> ><BR> > Kelvin Williams<BR> > Altus Communications Group, Inc.<BR> > Office Direct: 678.369.5968<BR> > Office Main: 678.369.5970<BR> > Fax: 866.895.8557<BR> > Mobile: 678.852.4173<BR> ><BR> > Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone with SprintSpeed<BR> ><BR> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR> > *From*: John Brown<BR> > *Date*: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 20:39:24 -0600<BR> > *To*: <kwilliams@altuscgi.com <a href="mailto:kwilliams@altuscgi.com"><mailto:kwilliams@altuscgi.com></a>>;<BR> > Chris Gotstein<chris@uplogon.com <a href="mailto:chris@uplogon.com"><mailto:chris@uplogon.com></a>><BR> ><BR> > *Subject*: Re: [arin-discuss] Food for thought: IPv4 accountability.<BR> ><BR> > Hang on, I need to scream NET-NEUTRALITY.<BR> ><BR> > Ah, but market forces will keep you from adding those ACL’s. Your<BR> > customers will find another provider that is ACL free and then you<BR> > will be revenue free. :)<BR> ><BR> ><BR> > On 7/21/09 8:30 PM, "Kelvin Williams" <kwilliams@altuscgi.com<BR> > <a href="mailto:kwilliams@altuscgi.com"><mailto:kwilliams@altuscgi.com></a>> wrote:<BR> ><BR> > ARIN may not have the legal right to do anything. But, if they<BR> > (Apple, et al) don't want to play fair with the rest of us, they<BR> > don't have a legal right when we add ACLs blocking their traffic<BR> > from traversing our networks. ;)Kw<BR> ><BR> > Kelvin WilliamsAltus Communications Group, Inc.Office Direct:<BR> > 678.369.5968Office Main: 678.369.5970Fax: 866.895.8557Mobile:<BR> > 678.852.4173Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone with SprintSpeed<BR> ><BR> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR> > *From*: John Brown<BR> > *Date*: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 20:26:02 -0600<BR> > *To*: Chris Gotstein<chris@uplogon.com<BR> > <a href="mailto:chris@uplogon.com"><mailto:chris@uplogon.com></a>>; <kwilliams@altuscgi.com<BR> > <a href="mailto:kwilliams@altuscgi.com"><mailto:kwilliams@altuscgi.com></a>><BR> > *Subject*: Re: [arin-discuss] Food for thought: IPv4 accountability.<BR> > I’ll ask the age old question again.<BR> ><BR> > What legal right does ARIN have to tell Apple to do anything?<BR> > If Apple got the space pre-ARIN and the rules where different<BR> > then, what gives ARIN the ability to enforce rules today.<BR> ><BR> > Its contracts law.<BR> ><BR> ><BR> ><BR> ><BR> > On 7/21/09 8:14 PM, "Chris Gotstein" <chris@uplogon.com<BR> > <a href="mailto:chris@uplogon.com"><mailto:chris@uplogon.com></a>> wrote:<BR> ><BR> > I would agree. Us small guys don't want to get to a point<BR> > where the big<BR> > guys are holding available IP address space over our heads<BR> > for a fee.<BR> > Those companies aren't just going to start dealing with<BR> > every small ISP<BR> > that comes along asking for address space.<BR> ><BR> > We've gone through the process of getting our initial IP<BR> > space and also<BR> > requesting additional IP space. We were successful on both<BR> > attempts<BR> > because we could prove we needed the space. We also have<BR> > an IPv6 block<BR> > and already have it implemented on our routers. But at<BR> > this time, the<BR> > only way you can run IPv6 is dual stack, i don't see us<BR> > running pure<BR> > IPv6 for a long time to come.<BR> ><BR> > ARIN needs to step in and start dealing with these large,<BR> > mostly unused<BR> > blocks of IP address space. A working group would be a<BR> > good start, or<BR> > maybe it's just a matter of asking for justification from<BR> > each of these<BR> > companies. ARIN has the right to poll current block<BR> > holders of address<BR> > space on justification, why can't they do the same on these<BR> > large<BR> > blocks? If HP and Apple can show they are using 80% or<BR> > more of their<BR> > block, then they can keep it and we move on. If not, then<BR> > they should<BR> > break up their blocks, and return the un-used space to ARIN.<BR> ><BR> ><BR> > --<BR> > Chris Gotstein<BR> > Sr Network Engineer<BR> > UP Logon/Computer Connection UP<BR> > 500 N Stephenson Ave<BR> > Iron Mountain, MI 49801<BR> > Phone: 906-774-4847<BR> > Fax: 906-774-0335<BR> > chris@uplogon.com <a href="mailto:chris@uplogon.com"><mailto:chris@uplogon.com></a><BR> ><BR> > Kelvin Williams wrote:<BR> > > Whoa, whoa, whoa.<BR> > ><BR> > > I'm sure I represent several others facing the depletion<BR> > of IPv4. Our Broadband division services residential and SMB<BR> > DOCSIS and DSL subscribers.<BR> > ><BR> > > In a perfect world we would be servicing savvy<BR> > subscribers running Linux or current versions of Windows<BR> > that support IPv6, and the majority of web destinations were<BR> > running IPv6.<BR> > ><BR> > > I can't implement NAT for our subscribers given that NAT<BR> > can cause problems for some of the services (VoIP, VPNs,<BR> > etc) in use today.<BR> > ><BR> > > So, if I'm reading this right, folks like me who are<BR> > protecting what blocks we manage from excess waste and<BR> > paying for every block, will now be at the mercy of these /8<BR> > holders who may be utilizing a tiny portion of the blocks<BR> > they are assigned when the "transfer market" comes into play.<BR> > ><BR> > > Lovely, I can't wait until I'm paying $100 a year per<BR> > IPv4 address because they can go for that.<BR> > ><BR> > > I think instead of talking on these lists that there<BR> > should be a steering group developed to address the real<BR> > issues. Forcing Apple, HP and the DoD to implement IPv6 NOW<BR> > freeing up those blocks. If they can't, they need to pay. In<BR> > my opinion, especially when looking at the DoD most of their<BR> > networks aren't accessed by the general public, so they can<BR> > transition versus the ISPs of the world dealing with users<BR> > still running Windows 98.<BR> > ><BR> > > Additionally the group could reallocate those big blocks<BR> > to the responsible little guy with the aforementioned issues<BR> > without the establishment of a transfer market, and work to<BR> > create a series of large bandwidth IPv4 to IPv6 gateways.<BR> > ><BR> > > (All of the above was written after too many beers at the<BR> > local brew pub--if it doesn't make sense to you, it made<BR> > sense to us)<BR> > ><BR> > ><BR> > > Kw<BR> > ><BR> > ><BR> > > Kelvin Williams<BR> > > Altus Communications Group, Inc.<BR> > > Office Direct: 678.369.5968<BR> > > Office Main: 678.369.5970<BR> > > Fax: 866.895.8557<BR> > > Mobile: 678.852.4173<BR> > ><BR> > > Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone with SprintSpeed<BR> > ><BR> > ><BR> > ><BR> > > -----Original Message-----<BR> > > From: Ted Mittelstaedt <tedm@ipinc.net<BR> > <a href="mailto:tedm@ipinc.net"><mailto:tedm@ipinc.net></a>><BR> > ><BR> > > Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 16:58:01<BR> > > To: John Brown<john@citylinkfiber.com<BR> > <a href="mailto:john@citylinkfiber.com"><mailto:john@citylinkfiber.com></a>><BR> > > Cc: ARIN Discussion List<arin-discuss@arin.net<BR> > <a href="mailto:arin-discuss@arin.net"><mailto:arin-discuss@arin.net></a>><BR> > > Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] Food for thought: IPv4<BR> > accountability.<BR> > ><BR> > ><BR> > ><BR> > ><BR> > > If people NEED IPv4 after runout (as opposed to merely<BR> > liking to have<BR> > > some), then a transfer market will<BR> > > exist, and those unused IPv4 numbers of HP and Apple will<BR> > suddenly<BR> > > have a transferable value - and as long as HP and Apple<BR> > continue to sit<BR> > > on them, they lose that money. It's no different than<BR> > charging them<BR> > > a fee to where they then lose money paying the fee.<BR> > Either way,<BR> > > they lose money. The only difference is who gets the<BR> > money they lose.<BR> > ><BR> > > Apple and HP only DON'T lose money if a transfer market<BR> > never forms<BR> > > and that block of numbers never gains value. In which<BR> > case nobody will<BR> > > be bugging ARIN to start charging them a fee.<BR> > ><BR> > > Either way, it works the same.<BR> > ><BR> > > Ted<BR> > ><BR> > > John Brown wrote:<BR> > >> So the challenge for ARIN, is what legal right do they<BR> > have to assess a<BR> > >> fee on Apple or HP (to use them as an example here)??<BR> > >><BR> > >> When Apple or HP got their space in the late 1980's<BR> > there was no fee as<BR> > >> part of the "contract".<BR> > >><BR> > >><BR> > >><BR> > >>> -----Original Message-----<BR> > >>> From: Steve Wagner [<a href="mailto:stwagner@syringanetworks.net]">mailto:stwagner@syringanetworks.net]</a><BR> > >>> Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 5:38 PM<BR> > >>> To: John Brown; Mike Horwath; Nathaniel B. Lyon<BR> > >>> Cc: ARIN Discussion List<BR> > >>> Subject: RE: [arin-discuss] Food for thought: IPv4<BR> > accountability.<BR> > >>><BR> > >>> If either Apple or HP corporate network sits behind a NAT<BR> > >>> firewall, they do not need the address space you speak<BR> > about,<BR> > >>> i.e. 40 million. In this regard may charging those type of<BR> > >>> entities for the address space they use, may result in them<BR> > >>> returning this address space to the allocation pool. This<BR> > >>> would be true for any other end user entity as well<BR> > that uses<BR> > >>> a NAT type firewall<BR> > >>><BR> > >>><BR> > >>> Regards,<BR> > >>> Steve Wagner<BR> > >>> Vice President of Operations<BR> > >>> Syringa Networks, LLC<BR> > >>> 3795 S Development Ave, Suite 100<BR> > >>> Boise, ID 83705<BR> > >>> Office: 208.229.6104<BR> > >>> Main: 208.229.6100<BR> > >>> Emergency: 1.800.454.7214<BR> > >>> Fax: 208.229.6110<BR> > >>> Email: Stwagner@syringanetworks.net<BR> > <a href="mailto:Stwagner@syringanetworks.net"><mailto:Stwagner@syringanetworks.net></a><BR> > >>> Web: www.syringanetworks.net<BR> > <a href="http://www.syringanetworks.net"><http://www.syringanetworks.net></a><BR> > >>><BR> > >>><BR> > >>><BR> > >>><BR> > >>><BR> > >>><BR> > >>> "Idaho's Premier Fiber Optic Network"<BR> > >>><BR> > >>> Privilege and Confidentiality Notice<BR> > >>> The information in this message is intended for the named<BR> > >>> recipients only. It may contain information that is<BR> > >>> privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from<BR> > >>> disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, you are<BR> > >>> hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution,<BR> > >>> or the taking of any action in reliance on the contents of<BR> > >>> this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received<BR> > >>> this e-mail in error, do not print it or disseminate it or<BR> > >>> its contents. In such event, please notify the sender by<BR> > >>> return e-mail and delete the e-mail file immediately<BR> > >>> thereafter. Thank you.<BR> > >>><BR> > >>><BR> > >>> -----Original Message-----<BR> > >>> From: arin-discuss-bounces@arin.net<BR> > <a href="mailto:arin-discuss-bounces@arin.net"><mailto:arin-discuss-bounces@arin.net></a><BR> > >>> [<a href="mailto:arin-discuss-bounces@arin.net]">mailto:arin-discuss-bounces@arin.net]</a> On Behalf Of<BR> > John Brown<BR> > >>> Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 5:18 PM<BR> > >>> To: Mike Horwath; Nathaniel B. Lyon<BR> > >>> Cc: ARIN Discussion List<BR> > >>> Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] Food for thought: IPv4<BR> > accountability.<BR> > >>><BR> > >>> I think that the other ARIN RIR's do a better job of<BR> > managing<BR> > >>> the actual<BR> > >>> usage ratios. Lots of US service providers have space<BR> > allocated or<BR> > >>> assigned to downstream customers and those customers<BR> > don't exist any<BR> > >>> more.<BR> > >>><BR> > >>> The cost for provider X to tightly manage their space is<BR> > >>> higher than the<BR> > >>> cost of them just getting new space. So it doesn't<BR> > happen. I could<BR> > >>> give multiple specific examples, at the risk of putting<BR> > a public spot<BR> > >>> light on those providers. :|<BR> > >>><BR> > >>> I believe that the early end user entities that got gobs of<BR> > >>> space should<BR> > >>> return the space they aren't using. <BR> > >>><BR> > >>> Does Apple Computer really need a /8 ???<BR> > >>> Does HP really need a /8 ??<BR> > >>><BR> > >>> Do both of those entities really need 40 million+ IP<BR> > addresses ??<BR> > >>><BR> > >>> For the specific issue of why Mr. Horwath can't get<BR> > space, I<BR> > >>> don't know.<BR> > >>> He fails to articulate specifics and only talks with a<BR> > broad brush.<BR> > >>><BR> > >>> I do know the ARIN staff and they are reasonable people<BR> > doing<BR> > >>> good work<BR> > >>> under the guidelines they have.<BR> > >>><BR> > >>> If there is some injustice on Mr. Horwath's allocation<BR> > >>> request, I'm sure<BR> > >>> it can be resolved.<BR> > >>><BR> > >>> So to that end I'll offer a few minutes of my time to<BR> > privately work<BR> > >>> with him on his allocation request and see if it passes<BR> > >>> muster and what<BR> > >>> may need to be done to help it float.<BR> > >>><BR> > >>>> -----Original Message-----<BR> > >>>> From: arin-discuss-bounces@arin.net<BR> > <a href="mailto:arin-discuss-bounces@arin.net"><mailto:arin-discuss-bounces@arin.net></a><BR> > >>>> [<a href="mailto:arin-discuss-bounces@arin.net]">mailto:arin-discuss-bounces@arin.net]</a> On Behalf Of<BR> > Mike Horwath<BR> > >>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 3:48 PM<BR> > >>>> To: Nathaniel B. Lyon<BR> > >>>> Cc: ARIN Discussion List<BR> > >>>> Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] Food for thought: IPv4<BR> > accountability.<BR> > >>>><BR> > >>>> Hi.<BR> > >>>><BR> > >>>> This issue and scare of IPv4 going away, running out of<BR> > >>>> space, I hear rice cakes are tasty - has been going on for<BR> > >>>> way too long.<BR> > >>>><BR> > >>>> I started my first ISP in 1993 and was told then that I<BR> > >>>> needed to be stingy with my allocation. 16 years<BR> > later, same<BR> > >>>> mantra, same boys with their toys who don't want to<BR> > share the pool.<BR> > >>>><BR> > >>>> The issues of accountability go back to the mid/late-1990s<BR> > >>>> when it was posed that<BR> > companies/institutions/government be<BR> > >>>> held to the same standards as joe schmoe consumer of<BR> > >>>> netblocks. Search the mailing list archives, I am<BR> > sure you<BR> > >>>> will find commentary in regular spats.<BR> > >>>><BR> > >>>> This isn't going to change, unfortunately.<BR> > >>>><BR> > >>>> The old boys club is just that: a club of old boys who<BR> > have<BR> > >>>> benefits for themselves. They even have a sign on their<BR> > >>>> clubhouse that states 'No Girlz'. (the rest of us are the<BR> > >>>> girlz if that wasn't obvious)<BR> > >>>><BR> > >>>> BUT: you too can join the club: just rewind time by<BR> > about 20<BR> > >>>> years, get in on the ground floor 'IP Address Give Away'<BR> > >>>> stock offering.<BR> > >>>><BR> > >>>> Or do what others do, buy larger netblock holding<BR> > companies: PROFIT<BR> > >>>><BR> > >>>> If I sound a little bitter, I apologize. The playing<BR> > field<BR> > >>>> should be level when it comes to this resource. It<BR> > never has<BR> > >>>> been. I don't think it ever will be.<BR> > >>>><BR> > >>>> I said it, you read it, I can't take it back.<BR> > >>>><BR> > >>>> --<BR> > >>>> Mike Horwath ipHouse - Welcome home!<BR> > drechsau@iphouse.net <a href="mailto:drechsau@iphouse.net"><mailto:drechsau@iphouse.net></a><BR> > >>>> The universe is an island, surrounded by<BR> > whatever it is<BR> > >>>> that surrounds universes. - Berkely Fortune<BR> > >>>>_______________________________________________<BR> > >>>> ARIN-Discuss<BR> > >>>> You are receiving this message because you are<BR> > subscribed to<BR> > >>>> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List<BR> > (ARIN-discuss@arin.net <a href="mailto:ARIN-discuss@arin.net"><mailto:ARIN-discuss@arin.net></a>).<BR> > >>>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<BR> > >>>> <a href="http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss">http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss</a><BR> > >>>> Please contact info@arin.net <a href="mailto:info@arin.net"><mailto:info@arin.net></a> if<BR> > you experience any issues.<BR> > >>>><BR> > >>>_______________________________________________<BR> > >>> ARIN-Discuss<BR> > >>> You are receiving this message because you are<BR> > subscribed to<BR> > >>> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss@arin.net<BR> > <a href="mailto:ARIN-discuss@arin.net"><mailto:ARIN-discuss@arin.net></a>).<BR> > >>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<BR> > >>> <a href="http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss">http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss</a><BR> > >>> Please contact info@arin.net <a href="mailto:info@arin.net"><mailto:info@arin.net></a> if<BR> > you experience any issues.<BR> > >>><BR> > >>_______________________________________________<BR> > >> ARIN-Discuss<BR> > >> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<BR> > >> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss@arin.net<BR> > <a href="mailto:ARIN-discuss@arin.net"><mailto:ARIN-discuss@arin.net></a>).<BR> > >> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<BR> > >> <a href="http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss">http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss</a><BR> > >> Please contact info@arin.net <a href="mailto:info@arin.net"><mailto:info@arin.net></a> if<BR> > you experience any issues.<BR> > ><BR> > >_______________________________________________<BR> > > ARIN-Discuss<BR> > > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<BR> > > the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss@arin.net<BR> > <a href="mailto:ARIN-discuss@arin.net"><mailto:ARIN-discuss@arin.net></a>).<BR> > > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<BR> > > <a href="http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss">http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss</a><BR> > > Please contact info@arin.net <a href="mailto:info@arin.net"><mailto:info@arin.net></a> if<BR> > you experience any issues.<BR> > >_______________________________________________<BR> > > ARIN-Discuss<BR> > > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<BR> > > the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss@arin.net<BR> > <a href="mailto:ARIN-discuss@arin.net"><mailto:ARIN-discuss@arin.net></a>).<BR> > > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<BR> > > <a href="http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss">http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss</a><BR> > > Please contact info@arin.net <a href="mailto:info@arin.net"><mailto:info@arin.net></a> if<BR> > you experience any issues.<BR> ><BR> > _______________________________________________<BR> > ARIN-Discuss<BR> > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<BR> > the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss@arin.net<BR> > <a href="mailto:ARIN-discuss@arin.net"><mailto:ARIN-discuss@arin.net></a>).<BR> > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<BR> > <a href="http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss">http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss</a><BR> > Please contact info@arin.net <a href="mailto:info@arin.net"><mailto:info@arin.net></a> if you<BR> > experience any issues.<BR> ><BR> ><BR> ><BR> ><BR> ><BR> > _______________________________________________<BR> > ARIN-Discuss<BR> > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<BR> > the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss@arin.net<BR> > <a href="mailto:ARIN-discuss@arin.net"><mailto:ARIN-discuss@arin.net></a>).<BR> > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<BR> > <a href="http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss">http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss</a><BR> > Please contact info@arin.net <a href="mailto:info@arin.net"><mailto:info@arin.net></a> if you<BR> > experience any issues.<BR> ><BR> ><BR><BR><BR></SPAN></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12.0px'><BR></SPAN></FONT></BODY></HTML>