From owen at delong.com  Wed Jun  4 20:04:08 2014
From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2014 17:04:08 -0700
Subject: [arin-discuss] Fwd: [ARIN-Suggestions] New ACSP Suggestion 2014.10:
	CHANGES TO CANDIDATE SPEECHES
References: <mailman.8589.1401924873.28847.arin-suggestions@arin.net>
Message-ID: <A5D2B5A2-6814-492C-8372-271600BECFE7@delong.com>


I oppose the implementation of this suggestion.

No rule prohibiting what Paul and I did existed prior to our doing it. I don?t see any way in which it impacted the integrity of the election process.

However, it has been made clear that such conduct is not desired and I see no reason that simply making that fact known is not sufficient. Going to written-only or pre-fabricated speeches is an unnecessary overreaction, IMHO.

Owen

On Jun 4, 2014, at 9:04 AM, ARIN <info at arin.net> wrote:

> A new suggestion was received through the ACSP, and was assigned number  2014.10 upon receipt of confirmation.
>  
> The text of the Suggestion is available at: https://www.arin.net/participate/acsp/suggestions/2014-10.html
>  
> ARIN will issue an initial response within 10 business days.
>  
> Regards,
>  
> Communications and Member Services
> American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN)
>  
> 
> 
> ***
> Suggestion: 
> 
> With election time starting to be on the horizon again, it's time for ARIN to address the events of October in Phoenix, where an outgoing Board member hijacked the agenda to stump for his preferred board candidates, and an AC candidate used his speech time to endorse others.
> 
> I think that for the integrity of the ARIN election process to remain intact, ARIN either needs to remove candidate speeches and stick to written materials, or have the speeches given in premade form like a video or something on the ARIN website.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> arin-suggestions mailing list
> arin-suggestions at arin.net
> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-suggestions




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From jcurran at arin.net  Wed Jun  4 20:18:31 2014
From: jcurran at arin.net (John Curran)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 00:18:31 +0000
Subject: [arin-discuss] Fwd: [ARIN-Suggestions] New ACSP Suggestion
 2014.10:	CHANGES TO CANDIDATE SPEECHES
In-Reply-To: <A5D2B5A2-6814-492C-8372-271600BECFE7@delong.com>
References: <mailman.8589.1401924873.28847.arin-suggestions@arin.net>
	<A5D2B5A2-6814-492C-8372-271600BECFE7@delong.com>
Message-ID: <97B6EB65-09A8-4537-BCA8-A02F807230EA@corp.arin.net>

On Jun 4, 2014, at 8:04 PM, Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> wrote:

> I oppose the implementation of this suggestion.
> 
> No rule prohibiting what Paul and I did existed prior to our doing it. I don?t see any way in which it impacted the integrity of the election process.
> 
> However, it has been made clear that such conduct is not desired and I see no reason that simply making that fact known is not sufficient. Going to written-only or pre-fabricated speeches is an unnecessary overreaction, IMHO.

The proposed short-term resolution is effectively make that fact sufficiently known.

Additionally, I was going to provide the suggestion as-is to the Board and Nomcom 
(as they periodically review the election process in general, and can decide if there 
is an more significant issue, and whether anything further is called for...)

Does that seem satisfactory?
/John

John Curran
President and CEO
ARIN





From cja at daydream.com  Wed Jun  4 22:38:35 2014
From: cja at daydream.com (CJ Aronson)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2014 20:38:35 -0600
Subject: [arin-discuss] Fwd: [ARIN-Suggestions] New ACSP Suggestion
 2014.10: CHANGES TO CANDIDATE SPEECHES
In-Reply-To: <A5D2B5A2-6814-492C-8372-271600BECFE7@delong.com>
References: <mailman.8589.1401924873.28847.arin-suggestions@arin.net>
	<A5D2B5A2-6814-492C-8372-271600BECFE7@delong.com>
Message-ID: <CAC6JZKQJ3st6cAyTcCHrEE46i+srM4kHVqGFH=kqxnVmb7s80w@mail.gmail.com>

Wow I agree with Owen.  I believe that in person speeches are useful and
give the community a chance to get to know the candidates.  Everyone who is
willing to run for election should be told the rules.  in the whole history
of ARIN this issue has appeared in one election and I feel that if the
candidates are told the rules there will be no further problems.

Thanks!
----Cathy


On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 6:04 PM, Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> wrote:

>
> I oppose the implementation of this suggestion.
>
> No rule prohibiting what Paul and I did existed prior to our doing it. I
> don?t see any way in which it impacted the integrity of the election
> process.
>
> However, it has been made clear that such conduct is not desired and I see
> no reason that simply making that fact known is not sufficient. Going to
> written-only or pre-fabricated speeches is an unnecessary overreaction,
> IMHO.
>
> Owen
>
> On Jun 4, 2014, at 9:04 AM, ARIN <info at arin.net> wrote:
>
> A new suggestion was received through the ACSP, and was assigned number  2014.10
> upon receipt of confirmation.
>
>
> The text of the Suggestion is available at:
> https://www.arin.net/participate/acsp/suggestions/2014-10.html
>
>
> ARIN will issue an initial response within 10 business days.
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Communications and Member Services
> American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN)
>
>
>
>
> ***
> *Suggestion: *
>
> With election time starting to be on the horizon again, it's time for ARIN
> to address the events of October in Phoenix, where an outgoing Board member
> hijacked the agenda to stump for his preferred board candidates, and an AC
> candidate used his speech time to endorse others.
>
> I think that for the integrity of the ARIN election process to remain
> intact, ARIN either needs to remove candidate speeches and stick to written
> materials, or have the speeches given in premade form like a video or
> something on the ARIN website.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> arin-suggestions mailing list
> arin-suggestions at arin.net
> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-suggestions
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ARIN-Discuss
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net).
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss
> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
>
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From hannigan at gmail.com  Wed Jun  4 22:45:24 2014
From: hannigan at gmail.com (Martin Hannigan)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2014 19:45:24 -0700
Subject: [arin-discuss] Fwd: [ARIN-Suggestions] New ACSP Suggestion
 2014.10: CHANGES TO CANDIDATE SPEECHES
In-Reply-To: <A5D2B5A2-6814-492C-8372-271600BECFE7@delong.com>
References: <mailman.8589.1401924873.28847.arin-suggestions@arin.net>
	<A5D2B5A2-6814-492C-8372-271600BECFE7@delong.com>
Message-ID: <CAMDXq5NshVyoTazjAfKW6xH7_QWePBs-SXFOerY_GnxpacX7Tg@mail.gmail.com>

It's called election rigging. It causes the integrity of the organization,
which is already suspect, to be suspect.

Support.


Best,

-M<



On Wednesday, June 4, 2014, Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> wrote:

>
> I oppose the implementation of this suggestion.
>
> No rule prohibiting what Paul and I did existed prior to our doing it. I
> don't see any way in which it impacted the integrity of the election
> process.
>
> However, it has been made clear that such conduct is not desired and I see
> no reason that simply making that fact known is not sufficient. Going to
> written-only or pre-fabricated speeches is an unnecessary overreaction,
> IMHO.
>
> Owen
>
> On Jun 4, 2014, at 9:04 AM, ARIN <info at arin.net
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','info at arin.net');>> wrote:
>
> A new suggestion was received through the ACSP, and was assigned number  2014.10
> upon receipt of confirmation.
>
>
> The text of the Suggestion is available at:
> https://www.arin.net/participate/acsp/suggestions/2014-10.html
>
>
> ARIN will issue an initial response within 10 business days.
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Communications and Member Services
> American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN)
>
>
>
>
> ***
> *Suggestion: *
>
> With election time starting to be on the horizon again, it's time for ARIN
> to address the events of October in Phoenix, where an outgoing Board member
> hijacked the agenda to stump for his preferred board candidates, and an AC
> candidate used his speech time to endorse others.
>
> I think that for the integrity of the ARIN election process to remain
> intact, ARIN either needs to remove candidate speeches and stick to written
> materials, or have the speeches given in premade form like a video or
> something on the ARIN website.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> arin-suggestions mailing list
> arin-suggestions at arin.net
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','arin-suggestions at arin.net');>
> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-suggestions
>
>
>
>
>
>
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From cja at daydream.com  Wed Jun  4 22:51:21 2014
From: cja at daydream.com (CJ Aronson)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2014 20:51:21 -0600
Subject: [arin-discuss] Fwd: [ARIN-Suggestions] New ACSP Suggestion
 2014.10: CHANGES TO CANDIDATE SPEECHES
In-Reply-To: <CAMDXq5NshVyoTazjAfKW6xH7_QWePBs-SXFOerY_GnxpacX7Tg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.8589.1401924873.28847.arin-suggestions@arin.net>
	<A5D2B5A2-6814-492C-8372-271600BECFE7@delong.com>
	<CAMDXq5NshVyoTazjAfKW6xH7_QWePBs-SXFOerY_GnxpacX7Tg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAC6JZKTaQuhLun=tYvqpoyiWL1a=mxmm3E==VjQ4_Dvnwv36nQ@mail.gmail.com>

Martin..

I'd appreciate it if you would explain how this is election rigging?
Election rigging is a very serious claim.

Best
----Cathy


On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 8:45 PM, Martin Hannigan <hannigan at gmail.com> wrote:

> It's called election rigging. It causes the integrity of the organization,
> which is already suspect, to be suspect.
>
> Support.
>
>
> Best,
>
> -M<
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, June 4, 2014, Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> I oppose the implementation of this suggestion.
>>
>> No rule prohibiting what Paul and I did existed prior to our doing it. I
>> don?t see any way in which it impacted the integrity of the election
>> process.
>>
>> However, it has been made clear that such conduct is not desired and I
>> see no reason that simply making that fact known is not sufficient. Going
>> to written-only or pre-fabricated speeches is an unnecessary overreaction,
>> IMHO.
>>
>> Owen
>>
>> On Jun 4, 2014, at 9:04 AM, ARIN <info at arin.net> wrote:
>>
>>  A new suggestion was received through the ACSP, and was assigned number
>>  2014.10 upon receipt of confirmation.
>>
>>
>> The text of the Suggestion is available at:
>> https://www.arin.net/participate/acsp/suggestions/2014-10.html
>>
>>
>> ARIN will issue an initial response within 10 business days.
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>> Communications and Member Services
>> American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ***
>> * Suggestion: *
>>
>> With election time starting to be on the horizon again, it's time for
>> ARIN to address the events of October in Phoenix, where an outgoing Board
>> member hijacked the agenda to stump for his preferred board candidates, and
>> an AC candidate used his speech time to endorse others.
>>
>> I think that for the integrity of the ARIN election process to remain
>> intact, ARIN either needs to remove candidate speeches and stick to written
>> materials, or have the speeches given in premade form like a video or
>> something on the ARIN website.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> arin-suggestions mailing list
>> arin-suggestions at arin.net
>> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-suggestions
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> ARIN-Discuss
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net).
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss
> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
>
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From hannigan at gmail.com  Wed Jun  4 23:05:23 2014
From: hannigan at gmail.com (Martin Hannigan)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2014 20:05:23 -0700
Subject: [arin-discuss] Fwd: [ARIN-Suggestions] New ACSP Suggestion
 2014.10: CHANGES TO CANDIDATE SPEECHES
In-Reply-To: <CAC6JZKTaQuhLun=tYvqpoyiWL1a=mxmm3E==VjQ4_Dvnwv36nQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.8589.1401924873.28847.arin-suggestions@arin.net>
	<A5D2B5A2-6814-492C-8372-271600BECFE7@delong.com>
	<CAMDXq5NshVyoTazjAfKW6xH7_QWePBs-SXFOerY_GnxpacX7Tg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC6JZKTaQuhLun=tYvqpoyiWL1a=mxmm3E==VjQ4_Dvnwv36nQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMDXq5NYbugPyyi8PE0z83_ogs=-1UXQJpfhXcZPrttetJN3-g@mail.gmail.com>

I highly doubt ARIN is changing results if that's your scope

Influence peddling is another matter.  This is a non profit election.  Not
a public official election.  Dishonesty falls in that scope IMHO.
Dishonesty is very serious conduct.


Best,

Martin



On Wednesday, June 4, 2014, CJ Aronson <cja at daydream.com> wrote:

> Martin..
>
> I'd appreciate it if you would explain how this is election rigging?
> Election rigging is a very serious claim.
>
> Best
> ----Cathy
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 8:45 PM, Martin Hannigan <hannigan at gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','hannigan at gmail.com');>> wrote:
>
>> It's called election rigging. It causes the integrity of the
>> organization, which is already suspect, to be suspect.
>>
>> Support.
>>
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> -M<
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, June 4, 2014, Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','owen at delong.com');>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I oppose the implementation of this suggestion.
>>>
>>> No rule prohibiting what Paul and I did existed prior to our doing it. I
>>> don't see any way in which it impacted the integrity of the election
>>> process.
>>>
>>> However, it has been made clear that such conduct is not desired and I
>>> see no reason that simply making that fact known is not sufficient. Going
>>> to written-only or pre-fabricated speeches is an unnecessary overreaction,
>>> IMHO.
>>>
>>> Owen
>>>
>>> On Jun 4, 2014, at 9:04 AM, ARIN <info at arin.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>  A new suggestion was received through the ACSP, and was assigned number
>>>   2014.10 upon receipt of confirmation.
>>>
>>>
>>> The text of the Suggestion is available at:
>>> https://www.arin.net/participate/acsp/suggestions/2014-10.html
>>>
>>>
>>> ARIN will issue an initial response within 10 business days.
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>>
>>> Communications and Member Services
>>> American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ***
>>> * Suggestion: *
>>>
>>> With election time starting to be on the horizon again, it's time for
>>> ARIN to address the events of October in Phoenix, where an outgoing Board
>>> member hijacked the agenda to stump for his preferred board candidates, and
>>> an AC candidate used his speech time to endorse others.
>>>
>>> I think that for the integrity of the ARIN election process to remain
>>> intact, ARIN either needs to remove candidate speeches and stick to written
>>> materials, or have the speeches given in premade form like a video or
>>> something on the ARIN website.
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> arin-suggestions mailing list
>>> arin-suggestions at arin.net
>>> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-suggestions
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ARIN-Discuss
>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
>> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ARIN-discuss at arin.net');>).
>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
>> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss
>> Please contact info at arin.net
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','info at arin.net');> if you experience any
>> issues.
>>
>
>
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From jcurran at arin.net  Wed Jun  4 23:40:37 2014
From: jcurran at arin.net (John Curran)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 03:40:37 +0000
Subject: [arin-discuss] [ARIN-Suggestions] New ACSP Suggestion 2014.10:
 CHANGES TO CANDIDATE SPEECHES
In-Reply-To: <CAMDXq5NYbugPyyi8PE0z83_ogs=-1UXQJpfhXcZPrttetJN3-g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.8589.1401924873.28847.arin-suggestions@arin.net>
	<A5D2B5A2-6814-492C-8372-271600BECFE7@delong.com>
	<CAMDXq5NshVyoTazjAfKW6xH7_QWePBs-SXFOerY_GnxpacX7Tg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC6JZKTaQuhLun=tYvqpoyiWL1a=mxmm3E==VjQ4_Dvnwv36nQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMDXq5NYbugPyyi8PE0z83_ogs=-1UXQJpfhXcZPrttetJN3-g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <36AFBE2F-6955-47ED-89D3-BBE58C2E2DF3@corp.arin.net>

On Jun 4, 2014, at 11:05 PM, Martin Hannigan <hannigan at gmail.com> wrote:

> I highly doubt ARIN is changing results if that's your scope  
> 
> Influence peddling is another matter.  This is a non profit election.  Not a public official election.  Dishonesty falls in that scope IMHO. Dishonesty is very serious conduct. 

Martin -  
 
    If you believe that the ARIN management has been dishonest, please raise the issue
    with the ARIN Board of Trustees.  If you feel the Trustees or organizations are being 
    dishonest with respect to election processes, I will note that would be a very serious 
    matter, observing that ARIN must conduct itself in accordance with the state laws 
    under which we are incorporated and which cover such matters.   In either case, I ask
    that you pursue your allegations to productive conclusion if they have any basis, and
    spare the community otherwise.

Thanks!
/John

John Curran
President and CEO
ARIN



From hannigan at gmail.com  Wed Jun  4 23:51:47 2014
From: hannigan at gmail.com (Martin Hannigan)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2014 20:51:47 -0700
Subject: [arin-discuss] [ARIN-Suggestions] New ACSP Suggestion 2014.10:
	CHANGES TO CANDIDATE SPEECHES
In-Reply-To: <36AFBE2F-6955-47ED-89D3-BBE58C2E2DF3@corp.arin.net>
References: <mailman.8589.1401924873.28847.arin-suggestions@arin.net>
	<A5D2B5A2-6814-492C-8372-271600BECFE7@delong.com>
	<CAMDXq5NshVyoTazjAfKW6xH7_QWePBs-SXFOerY_GnxpacX7Tg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC6JZKTaQuhLun=tYvqpoyiWL1a=mxmm3E==VjQ4_Dvnwv36nQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMDXq5NYbugPyyi8PE0z83_ogs=-1UXQJpfhXcZPrttetJN3-g@mail.gmail.com>
	<36AFBE2F-6955-47ED-89D3-BBE58C2E2DF3@corp.arin.net>
Message-ID: <D25AB2E2-B2DB-45DB-887A-CA51814BACE0@gmail.com>


John, 

ARIN can be defined in many ways. Staff. AC. Board. Community. Etc. 

Clearly there are people who feel that influence peddling, this is the problem being described, is an activity not conducive to the reputation of the organization.  Let's not to deflect, be defensive or over think.  

Let me restate the solution:

SUPPORT. 

Best, 

Martin 



> On Jun 4, 2014, at 20:40, John Curran <jcurran at arin.net> wrote:
> 
>> On Jun 4, 2014, at 11:05 PM, Martin Hannigan <hannigan at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I highly doubt ARIN is changing results if that's your scope  
>> 
>> Influence peddling is another matter.  This is a non profit election.  Not a public official election.  Dishonesty falls in that scope IMHO. Dishonesty is very serious conduct.
> 
> Martin -  
> 
>    If you believe that the ARIN management has been dishonest, please raise the issue
>    with the ARIN Board of Trustees.  If you feel the Trustees or organizations are being 
>    dishonest with respect to election processes, I will note that would be a very serious 
>    matter, observing that ARIN must conduct itself in accordance with the state laws 
>    under which we are incorporated and which cover such matters.   In either case, I ask
>    that you pursue your allegations to productive conclusion if they have any basis, and
>    spare the community otherwise.
> 
> Thanks!
> /John
> 
> John Curran
> President and CEO
> ARIN
> 


From woody at pch.net  Thu Jun  5 00:00:53 2014
From: woody at pch.net (Bill Woodcock)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2014 21:00:53 -0700
Subject: [arin-discuss] [ARIN-Suggestions] New ACSP Suggestion 2014.10:
	CHANGES TO CANDIDATE SPEECHES
In-Reply-To: <D25AB2E2-B2DB-45DB-887A-CA51814BACE0@gmail.com>
References: <mailman.8589.1401924873.28847.arin-suggestions@arin.net>
	<A5D2B5A2-6814-492C-8372-271600BECFE7@delong.com>
	<CAMDXq5NshVyoTazjAfKW6xH7_QWePBs-SXFOerY_GnxpacX7Tg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC6JZKTaQuhLun=tYvqpoyiWL1a=mxmm3E==VjQ4_Dvnwv36nQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMDXq5NYbugPyyi8PE0z83_ogs=-1UXQJpfhXcZPrttetJN3-g@mail.gmail.com>
	<36AFBE2F-6955-47ED-89D3-BBE58C2E2DF3@corp.arin.net>
	<D25AB2E2-B2DB-45DB-887A-CA51814BACE0@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <148A9555-A843-4C1A-B7E0-B5F175B7FBB8@pch.net>


On Jun 4, 2014, at 8:51 PM, Martin Hannigan <hannigan at gmail.com> wrote:
> Let's not to over think.  

Heaven forfend.

                                -Bill




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From owen at delong.com  Thu Jun  5 03:26:03 2014
From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 00:26:03 -0700
Subject: [arin-discuss] Fwd: [ARIN-Suggestions] New ACSP Suggestion
	2014.10:	CHANGES TO CANDIDATE SPEECHES
In-Reply-To: <97B6EB65-09A8-4537-BCA8-A02F807230EA@corp.arin.net>
References: <mailman.8589.1401924873.28847.arin-suggestions@arin.net>
	<A5D2B5A2-6814-492C-8372-271600BECFE7@delong.com>
	<97B6EB65-09A8-4537-BCA8-A02F807230EA@corp.arin.net>
Message-ID: <8C6122D6-B26C-4DE0-9FB6-3111C0A6716F@delong.com>


On Jun 4, 2014, at 5:18 PM, John Curran <jcurran at arin.net> wrote:

> On Jun 4, 2014, at 8:04 PM, Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> wrote:
> 
>> I oppose the implementation of this suggestion.
>> 
>> No rule prohibiting what Paul and I did existed prior to our doing it. I don?t see any way in which it impacted the integrity of the election process.
>> 
>> However, it has been made clear that such conduct is not desired and I see no reason that simply making that fact known is not sufficient. Going to written-only or pre-fabricated speeches is an unnecessary overreaction, IMHO.
> 
> The proposed short-term resolution is effectively make that fact sufficiently known.
> 
> Additionally, I was going to provide the suggestion as-is to the Board and Nomcom 
> (as they periodically review the election process in general, and can decide if there 
> is an more significant issue, and whether anything further is called for...)
> 
> Does that seem satisfactory?

The short term solution seems satisfactory as a long-term solution.

I oppose modifying the process to require written-only or pre-fabricated speeches shot or long-term.

Owen



From jesse at la-broadband.com  Thu Jun  5 04:08:25 2014
From: jesse at la-broadband.com (Jesse Geddis)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 01:08:25 -0700
Subject: [arin-discuss] Fwd: [ARIN-Suggestions] New ACSP Suggestion
	2014.10:	CHANGES TO CANDIDATE SPEECHES
In-Reply-To: <8C6122D6-B26C-4DE0-9FB6-3111C0A6716F@delong.com>
References: <mailman.8589.1401924873.28847.arin-suggestions@arin.net>
	<A5D2B5A2-6814-492C-8372-271600BECFE7@delong.com>
	<97B6EB65-09A8-4537-BCA8-A02F807230EA@corp.arin.net>
	<8C6122D6-B26C-4DE0-9FB6-3111C0A6716F@delong.com>
Message-ID: <42E25678-8A65-48CB-B8D7-6E6D3E288851@la-broadband.com>

John,

Is it written down anywhere that would be obvious to everyone? Honestly, it would have never occurred to me such an uncouth thing would happen. A policy is too far at this point as it appears to be somewhat of a corner case. Perhaps it would be more appropriate as a written guideline for future candidates. I recall there being a process description of the nomination process which mentions a brief speech or video. That may be the appropriate place to include a broad mention of what is/isn?t appropriate. Perhaps the "Owen Amendment" ;)

Jesse

On Jun 5, 2014, at 12:26 AM, Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> wrote:

> 
> On Jun 4, 2014, at 5:18 PM, John Curran <jcurran at arin.net> wrote:
> 
>> On Jun 4, 2014, at 8:04 PM, Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> I oppose the implementation of this suggestion.
>>> 
>>> No rule prohibiting what Paul and I did existed prior to our doing it. I don?t see any way in which it impacted the integrity of the election process.
>>> 
>>> However, it has been made clear that such conduct is not desired and I see no reason that simply making that fact known is not sufficient. Going to written-only or pre-fabricated speeches is an unnecessary overreaction, IMHO.
>> 
>> The proposed short-term resolution is effectively make that fact sufficiently known.
>> 
>> Additionally, I was going to provide the suggestion as-is to the Board and Nomcom 
>> (as they periodically review the election process in general, and can decide if there 
>> is an more significant issue, and whether anything further is called for...)
>> 
>> Does that seem satisfactory?
> 
> The short term solution seems satisfactory as a long-term solution.
> 
> I oppose modifying the process to require written-only or pre-fabricated speeches shot or long-term.
> 
> Owen
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ARIN-Discuss
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net).
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss
> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.

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From owen at delong.com  Thu Jun  5 04:36:02 2014
From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 01:36:02 -0700
Subject: [arin-discuss] Fwd: [ARIN-Suggestions] New ACSP Suggestion
	2014.10: CHANGES TO CANDIDATE SPEECHES
In-Reply-To: <CAMDXq5NshVyoTazjAfKW6xH7_QWePBs-SXFOerY_GnxpacX7Tg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.8589.1401924873.28847.arin-suggestions@arin.net>
	<A5D2B5A2-6814-492C-8372-271600BECFE7@delong.com>
	<CAMDXq5NshVyoTazjAfKW6xH7_QWePBs-SXFOerY_GnxpacX7Tg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <88A5A80A-25C1-4BB8-AA44-015F78710324@delong.com>

Election Rigging:

election rigging is the act of dishonestly organizing an election to get a particular result. it is an electoral fraud and an interference with theelection process.

I really don?t see how a public open and transparent expression of support for a particular candidate constitutes an electoral fraud or interference with the election process, let alone dishonestly organizing the election.

Owen

On Jun 4, 2014, at 7:45 PM, Martin Hannigan <hannigan at gmail.com> wrote:

> It's called election rigging. It causes the integrity of the organization, which is already suspect, to be suspect. 
> 
> Support. 
> 
> 
> Best, 
> 
> -M<
> 
> 
> 
> On Wednesday, June 4, 2014, Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> wrote:
> 
> I oppose the implementation of this suggestion.
> 
> No rule prohibiting what Paul and I did existed prior to our doing it. I don?t see any way in which it impacted the integrity of the election process.
> 
> However, it has been made clear that such conduct is not desired and I see no reason that simply making that fact known is not sufficient. Going to written-only or pre-fabricated speeches is an unnecessary overreaction, IMHO.
> 
> Owen
> 
> On Jun 4, 2014, at 9:04 AM, ARIN <info at arin.net> wrote:
> 
>> A new suggestion was received through the ACSP, and was assigned number  2014.10 upon receipt of confirmation.
>>  
>> The text of the Suggestion is available at: https://www.arin.net/participate/acsp/suggestions/2014-10.html
>>  
>> ARIN will issue an initial response within 10 business days.
>>  
>> Regards,
>>  
>> Communications and Member Services
>> American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN)
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> ***
>> Suggestion: 
>> 
>> With election time starting to be on the horizon again, it's time for ARIN to address the events of October in Phoenix, where an outgoing Board member hijacked the agenda to stump for his preferred board candidates, and an AC candidate used his speech time to endorse others.
>> 
>> I think that for the integrity of the ARIN election process to remain intact, ARIN either needs to remove candidate speeches and stick to written materials, or have the speeches given in premade form like a video or something on the ARIN website.
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> arin-suggestions mailing list
>> arin-suggestions at arin.net
>> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-suggestions
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ARIN-Discuss
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net).
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss
> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.

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From owen at delong.com  Thu Jun  5 04:31:32 2014
From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 01:31:32 -0700
Subject: [arin-discuss] Fwd: [ARIN-Suggestions] New ACSP Suggestion
	2014.10: CHANGES TO CANDIDATE SPEECHES
In-Reply-To: <CAMDXq5NshVyoTazjAfKW6xH7_QWePBs-SXFOerY_GnxpacX7Tg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.8589.1401924873.28847.arin-suggestions@arin.net>
	<A5D2B5A2-6814-492C-8372-271600BECFE7@delong.com>
	<CAMDXq5NshVyoTazjAfKW6xH7_QWePBs-SXFOerY_GnxpacX7Tg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <35D0FFED-E61D-40A7-A70E-F532A07DC168@delong.com>

Election Rigging:

election rigging is the act of dishonestly organizing an election to get a particular result. it is an electoral fraud and an interference with theelection process.

I really don?t see how a public open and transparent expression of support for a particular candidate constitutes an electoral fraud or interference with the election process, let alone dishonestly organizing the election.

Owen

On Jun 4, 2014, at 7:45 PM, Martin Hannigan <hannigan at gmail.com> wrote:

> It's called election rigging. It causes the integrity of the organization, which is already suspect, to be suspect. 
> 
> Support. 
> 
> 
> Best, 
> 
> -M<
> 
> 
> 
> On Wednesday, June 4, 2014, Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> wrote:
> 
> I oppose the implementation of this suggestion.
> 
> No rule prohibiting what Paul and I did existed prior to our doing it. I don?t see any way in which it impacted the integrity of the election process.
> 
> However, it has been made clear that such conduct is not desired and I see no reason that simply making that fact known is not sufficient. Going to written-only or pre-fabricated speeches is an unnecessary overreaction, IMHO.
> 
> Owen
> 
> On Jun 4, 2014, at 9:04 AM, ARIN <info at arin.net> wrote:
> 
>> A new suggestion was received through the ACSP, and was assigned number  2014.10 upon receipt of confirmation.
>>  
>> The text of the Suggestion is available at: https://www.arin.net/participate/acsp/suggestions/2014-10.html
>>  
>> ARIN will issue an initial response within 10 business days.
>>  
>> Regards,
>>  
>> Communications and Member Services
>> American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN)
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> ***
>> Suggestion: 
>> 
>> With election time starting to be on the horizon again, it's time for ARIN to address the events of October in Phoenix, where an outgoing Board member hijacked the agenda to stump for his preferred board candidates, and an AC candidate used his speech time to endorse others.
>> 
>> I think that for the integrity of the ARIN election process to remain intact, ARIN either needs to remove candidate speeches and stick to written materials, or have the speeches given in premade form like a video or something on the ARIN website.
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> arin-suggestions mailing list
>> arin-suggestions at arin.net
>> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-suggestions
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ARIN-Discuss
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net).
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss
> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.

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From owen at delong.com  Thu Jun  5 04:50:42 2014
From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 01:50:42 -0700
Subject: [arin-discuss] [ARIN-Suggestions] New ACSP Suggestion 2014.10:
	CHANGES TO CANDIDATE SPEECHES
In-Reply-To: <D25AB2E2-B2DB-45DB-887A-CA51814BACE0@gmail.com>
References: <mailman.8589.1401924873.28847.arin-suggestions@arin.net>
	<A5D2B5A2-6814-492C-8372-271600BECFE7@delong.com>
	<CAMDXq5NshVyoTazjAfKW6xH7_QWePBs-SXFOerY_GnxpacX7Tg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC6JZKTaQuhLun=tYvqpoyiWL1a=mxmm3E==VjQ4_Dvnwv36nQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMDXq5NYbugPyyi8PE0z83_ogs=-1UXQJpfhXcZPrttetJN3-g@mail.gmail.com>
	<36AFBE2F-6955-47ED-89D3-BBE58C2E2DF3@corp.arin.net>
	<D25AB2E2-B2DB-45DB-887A-CA51814BACE0@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0BE7E477-7DB7-457D-BE6E-C2C20B3462CD@delong.com>

Once again, your accusation does not appear to fit the definition:

in?flu?ence ped?dling
nounNORTH AMERICAN
the use of position or political influence on someone's behalf in exchange for money or favors.

No money changed hands that I am aware of. Certainly my endorsement of Bernadette was not based on any exchange of money or favors. I asked her to run because I believed in good faith that she would be an excellent contributor to the ARIN board. I endorsed her candidacy for the same reason.

Owen

On Jun 4, 2014, at 8:51 PM, Martin Hannigan <hannigan at gmail.com> wrote:

> 
> John, 
> 
> ARIN can be defined in many ways. Staff. AC. Board. Community. Etc. 
> 
> Clearly there are people who feel that influence peddling, this is the problem being described, is an activity not conducive to the reputation of the organization.  Let's not to deflect, be defensive or over think.  
> 
> Let me restate the solution:
> 
> SUPPORT. 
> 
> Best, 
> 
> Martin 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jun 4, 2014, at 20:40, John Curran <jcurran at arin.net> wrote:
>> 
>>> On Jun 4, 2014, at 11:05 PM, Martin Hannigan <hannigan at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I highly doubt ARIN is changing results if that's your scope  
>>> 
>>> Influence peddling is another matter.  This is a non profit election.  Not a public official election.  Dishonesty falls in that scope IMHO. Dishonesty is very serious conduct.
>> 
>> Martin -  
>> 
>>   If you believe that the ARIN management has been dishonest, please raise the issue
>>   with the ARIN Board of Trustees.  If you feel the Trustees or organizations are being 
>>   dishonest with respect to election processes, I will note that would be a very serious 
>>   matter, observing that ARIN must conduct itself in accordance with the state laws 
>>   under which we are incorporated and which cover such matters.   In either case, I ask
>>   that you pursue your allegations to productive conclusion if they have any basis, and
>>   spare the community otherwise.
>> 
>> Thanks!
>> /John
>> 
>> John Curran
>> President and CEO
>> ARIN
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> ARIN-Discuss
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net).
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss
> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.

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From jesse at la-broadband.com  Thu Jun  5 04:58:20 2014
From: jesse at la-broadband.com (Jesse Geddis)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 01:58:20 -0700
Subject: [arin-discuss] [ARIN-Suggestions] New ACSP Suggestion 2014.10:
	CHANGES TO CANDIDATE SPEECHES
In-Reply-To: <0BE7E477-7DB7-457D-BE6E-C2C20B3462CD@delong.com>
References: <mailman.8589.1401924873.28847.arin-suggestions@arin.net>
	<A5D2B5A2-6814-492C-8372-271600BECFE7@delong.com>
	<CAMDXq5NshVyoTazjAfKW6xH7_QWePBs-SXFOerY_GnxpacX7Tg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC6JZKTaQuhLun=tYvqpoyiWL1a=mxmm3E==VjQ4_Dvnwv36nQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMDXq5NYbugPyyi8PE0z83_ogs=-1UXQJpfhXcZPrttetJN3-g@mail.gmail.com>
	<36AFBE2F-6955-47ED-89D3-BBE58C2E2DF3@corp.arin.net>
	<D25AB2E2-B2DB-45DB-887A-CA51814BACE0@gmail.com>
	<0BE7E477-7DB7-457D-BE6E-C2C20B3462CD@delong.com>
Message-ID: <6A7B1C41-9BD0-43CE-88FB-133663016733@la-broadband.com>

Gents,

I?m not sure the specifics of any of this is worth rehashing. Especially on this list. From what I can tell it?s been dealt with. It was uncouth and inappropriate at minimum. To argue it has zero impact is naive. Especially in the broader context of the other discussions we?ve recently had regarding term limits and other issues related to elections. Owen, I?m not sure why you?re lashing out at folks here. Perhaps taking some deep breaths and heading to bed may be in order. Lets let things simmer down.

Jesse

On Jun 5, 2014, at 1:50 AM, Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> wrote:

> Once again, your accusation does not appear to fit the definition:
> 
> in?flu?ence ped?dling
> nounNORTH AMERICAN
> the use of position or political influence on someone's behalf in exchange for money or favors.
> 
> No money changed hands that I am aware of. Certainly my endorsement of Bernadette was not based on any exchange of money or favors. I asked her to run because I believed in good faith that she would be an excellent contributor to the ARIN board. I endorsed her candidacy for the same reason.
> 
> Owen
> 
> On Jun 4, 2014, at 8:51 PM, Martin Hannigan <hannigan at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> John, 
>> 
>> ARIN can be defined in many ways. Staff. AC. Board. Community. Etc. 
>> 
>> Clearly there are people who feel that influence peddling, this is the problem being described, is an activity not conducive to the reputation of the organization.  Let's not to deflect, be defensive or over think.  
>> 
>> Let me restate the solution:
>> 
>> SUPPORT. 
>> 
>> Best, 
>> 
>> Martin 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jun 4, 2014, at 20:40, John Curran <jcurran at arin.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On Jun 4, 2014, at 11:05 PM, Martin Hannigan <hannigan at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I highly doubt ARIN is changing results if that's your scope  
>>>> 
>>>> Influence peddling is another matter.  This is a non profit election.  Not a public official election.  Dishonesty falls in that scope IMHO. Dishonesty is very serious conduct.
>>> 
>>> Martin -  
>>> 
>>>   If you believe that the ARIN management has been dishonest, please raise the issue
>>>   with the ARIN Board of Trustees.  If you feel the Trustees or organizations are being 
>>>   dishonest with respect to election processes, I will note that would be a very serious 
>>>   matter, observing that ARIN must conduct itself in accordance with the state laws 
>>>   under which we are incorporated and which cover such matters.   In either case, I ask
>>>   that you pursue your allegations to productive conclusion if they have any basis, and
>>>   spare the community otherwise.
>>> 
>>> Thanks!
>>> /John
>>> 
>>> John Curran
>>> President and CEO
>>> ARIN
>>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> ARIN-Discuss
>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
>> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net).
>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
>> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss
>> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ARIN-Discuss
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net).
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss
> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.

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From cja at daydream.com  Thu Jun  5 09:45:42 2014
From: cja at daydream.com (CJ Aronson)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 07:45:42 -0600
Subject: [arin-discuss] Fwd: [ARIN-Suggestions] New ACSP Suggestion
 2014.10: CHANGES TO CANDIDATE SPEECHES
In-Reply-To: <CAC6JZKQJ3st6cAyTcCHrEE46i+srM4kHVqGFH=kqxnVmb7s80w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.8589.1401924873.28847.arin-suggestions@arin.net>
	<A5D2B5A2-6814-492C-8372-271600BECFE7@delong.com>
	<CAC6JZKQJ3st6cAyTcCHrEE46i+srM4kHVqGFH=kqxnVmb7s80w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAC6JZKSuNhevM2GpicNahyY1d5HdunzyxTWnaaJ9cEPHFViS1Q@mail.gmail.com>

It has been brought to my attention that this has happened more than once.
 My mistake.  The more reason that there should be guidelines for candidate
speeches.  I still think taking them away completely is extreme.

Thanks!
----Cathy


On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 8:38 PM, CJ Aronson <cja at daydream.com> wrote:

> Wow I agree with Owen.  I believe that in person speeches are useful and
> give the community a chance to get to know the candidates.  Everyone who is
> willing to run for election should be told the rules.  in the whole history
> of ARIN this issue has appeared in one election and I feel that if the
> candidates are told the rules there will be no further problems.
>
> Thanks!
> ----Cathy
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 6:04 PM, Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> I oppose the implementation of this suggestion.
>>
>> No rule prohibiting what Paul and I did existed prior to our doing it. I
>> don?t see any way in which it impacted the integrity of the election
>> process.
>>
>> However, it has been made clear that such conduct is not desired and I
>> see no reason that simply making that fact known is not sufficient. Going
>> to written-only or pre-fabricated speeches is an unnecessary overreaction,
>> IMHO.
>>
>> Owen
>>
>> On Jun 4, 2014, at 9:04 AM, ARIN <info at arin.net> wrote:
>>
>> A new suggestion was received through the ACSP, and was assigned number  2014.10
>> upon receipt of confirmation.
>>
>>
>> The text of the Suggestion is available at:
>> https://www.arin.net/participate/acsp/suggestions/2014-10.html
>>
>>
>> ARIN will issue an initial response within 10 business days.
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>> Communications and Member Services
>> American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ***
>> * Suggestion: *
>>
>> With election time starting to be on the horizon again, it's time for
>> ARIN to address the events of October in Phoenix, where an outgoing Board
>> member hijacked the agenda to stump for his preferred board candidates, and
>> an AC candidate used his speech time to endorse others.
>>
>> I think that for the integrity of the ARIN election process to remain
>> intact, ARIN either needs to remove candidate speeches and stick to written
>> materials, or have the speeches given in premade form like a video or
>> something on the ARIN website.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> arin-suggestions mailing list
>> arin-suggestions at arin.net
>> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-suggestions
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ARIN-Discuss
>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
>> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net).
>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
>> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss
>> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
>>
>
>
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From bill at sandiford.com  Thu Jun  5 10:52:01 2014
From: bill at sandiford.com (Bill Sandiford)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 10:52:01 -0400
Subject: [arin-discuss] Fwd: [ARIN-Suggestions] New ACSP Suggestion
	2014.10: CHANGES TO CANDIDATE SPEECHES
In-Reply-To: <CAC6JZKSuNhevM2GpicNahyY1d5HdunzyxTWnaaJ9cEPHFViS1Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.8589.1401924873.28847.arin-suggestions@arin.net>
	<A5D2B5A2-6814-492C-8372-271600BECFE7@delong.com>
	<CAC6JZKQJ3st6cAyTcCHrEE46i+srM4kHVqGFH=kqxnVmb7s80w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC6JZKSuNhevM2GpicNahyY1d5HdunzyxTWnaaJ9cEPHFViS1Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F01F215A-8632-4D80-A86A-A81BC90CFCD8@sandiford.com>

+1 

I was a candidate one of the years that this occurred.  It was very upsetting.  I believe a good set of rules, with severe penalties if broken, is sufficient to ensure this doesn?t happen again.  A prohibition on speeches seems excessive to me.

Bill

On Jun 5, 2014, at 9:45 AM, CJ Aronson <cja at daydream.com> wrote:

> It has been brought to my attention that this has happened more than once.  My mistake.  The more reason that there should be guidelines for candidate speeches.  I still think taking them away completely is extreme.
> 
> Thanks!
> ----Cathy
> 
> 
> On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 8:38 PM, CJ Aronson <cja at daydream.com> wrote:
> Wow I agree with Owen.  I believe that in person speeches are useful and give the community a chance to get to know the candidates.  Everyone who is willing to run for election should be told the rules.  in the whole history of ARIN this issue has appeared in one election and I feel that if the candidates are told the rules there will be no further problems. 
> 
> Thanks!
> ----Cathy
> 
> 
> On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 6:04 PM, Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> wrote:
> 
> I oppose the implementation of this suggestion.
> 
> No rule prohibiting what Paul and I did existed prior to our doing it. I don?t see any way in which it impacted the integrity of the election process.
> 
> However, it has been made clear that such conduct is not desired and I see no reason that simply making that fact known is not sufficient. Going to written-only or pre-fabricated speeches is an unnecessary overreaction, IMHO.
> 
> Owen
> 
> On Jun 4, 2014, at 9:04 AM, ARIN <info at arin.net> wrote:
> 
>> A new suggestion was received through the ACSP, and was assigned number  2014.10 upon receipt of confirmation.
>>  
>> The text of the Suggestion is available at: https://www.arin.net/participate/acsp/suggestions/2014-10.html
>>  
>> ARIN will issue an initial response within 10 business days.
>>  
>> Regards,
>>  
>> Communications and Member Services
>> American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN)
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> ***
>> Suggestion: 
>> 
>> With election time starting to be on the horizon again, it's time for ARIN to address the events of October in Phoenix, where an outgoing Board member hijacked the agenda to stump for his preferred board candidates, and an AC candidate used his speech time to endorse others.
>> 
>> I think that for the integrity of the ARIN election process to remain intact, ARIN either needs to remove candidate speeches and stick to written materials, or have the speeches given in premade form like a video or something on the ARIN website.
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> arin-suggestions mailing list
>> arin-suggestions at arin.net
>> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-suggestions
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ARIN-Discuss
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net).
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss
> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ARIN-Discuss
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net).
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss
> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.

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From bob at FiberInternetCenter.com  Thu Jun  5 11:29:09 2014
From: bob at FiberInternetCenter.com (Bob Evans)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 08:29:09 -0700
Subject: [arin-discuss] Fwd: [ARIN-Suggestions] New ACSP Suggestion
 2014.10: CHANGES TO CANDIDATE SPEECHES
In-Reply-To: <CAC6JZKSuNhevM2GpicNahyY1d5HdunzyxTWnaaJ9cEPHFViS1Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.8589.1401924873.28847.arin-suggestions@arin.net>
	<A5D2B5A2-6814-492C-8372-271600BECFE7@delong.com>
	<CAC6JZKQJ3st6cAyTcCHrEE46i+srM4kHVqGFH=kqxnVmb7s80w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC6JZKSuNhevM2GpicNahyY1d5HdunzyxTWnaaJ9cEPHFViS1Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0f5a70c5dc062b9cdd38405b50ec18cf.squirrel@66.201.44.180>

I think the proposal to prevent whatever we want to call it (be it
hangover influence in judgement, mistake, misunderstanding or any other
dictionary words that may fit such a human action) is a good one.

Aside from this incident being used to help justify more rules governing
election the process, as a long time member of ARIN with a history of
voting, term limits are a basic good policy that help prevent a bad
official from gaining to much public power and comfort due to long
standing name recognition. Yes, we have to make great officials step aside
for a term to see how another might fit. Maybe a few more policies
governing election process would be helpful to provided clarification to
future officials.

In most governments an official can use the media to leverage support for
themselves and others, however, they can not use public paid or sponsored
government events, real estate grounds, etc. We don't have much in the way
of rules about this. WIthout rules about it a good intention can easily
become misguided.

(SIde note; They can walk across the street to a restaurant hundreds of
feet away and speak with the press and anyone else that will listen. But
they can't gather that attendance at the government event through a
commercial means, such as handing out material that they are across the
street during a government paid event.)

ARIN and NANOG community membership meetings which blend well with ARIN
presence should be looked at as government like events. The industry has
other commercial, non-membership driven EXPO like events for such vote
gathering and candidate awareness. So having a few unfair use of official
power rules is something that will prevent future arguments on the
assumptions there was such a rule.

Since we are on an election related topic, I also think that an ARIN
candidate statement and community member endorsements are good. It should
be expanded to include video clips by candidates (with some of fixed equal
time rule). In their video they can even have officials and others appear
to endorse them. These should sit on an ARIN server. A step deeper into
this concept would "encourage" video endorsements for candidates from
anyone (without time limits). Such clips should not be on an ARIN server
but reachable through a link in their ARIN hosted endorsement text. This
will gather more industry interest in ARIN voting that we have have been
searching for. After all elections are also a form of entertainment that
gathers election interest and awareness.

Elections as they are today are rather boring. Anyone one else think a
video media/event is a good idea ? (Such should be guided by a policy).

Thank You
Bob Evans
CTO
Fiber Internet Center LLC



> It has been brought to my attention that this has happened more than once.
>  My mistake.  The more reason that there should be guidelines for
> candidate
> speeches.  I still think taking them away completely is extreme.
>
> Thanks!
> ----Cathy
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 8:38 PM, CJ Aronson <cja at daydream.com> wrote:
>
>> Wow I agree with Owen.  I believe that in person speeches are useful and
>> give the community a chance to get to know the candidates.  Everyone who
>> is
>> willing to run for election should be told the rules.  in the whole
>> history
>> of ARIN this issue has appeared in one election and I feel that if the
>> candidates are told the rules there will be no further problems.
>>
>> Thanks!
>> ----Cathy
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 6:04 PM, Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I oppose the implementation of this suggestion.
>>>
>>> No rule prohibiting what Paul and I did existed prior to our doing it.
>>> I
>>> don???t see any way in which it impacted the integrity of the election
>>> process.
>>>
>>> However, it has been made clear that such conduct is not desired and I
>>> see no reason that simply making that fact known is not sufficient.
>>> Going
>>> to written-only or pre-fabricated speeches is an unnecessary
>>> overreaction,
>>> IMHO.
>>>
>>> Owen
>>>
>>> On Jun 4, 2014, at 9:04 AM, ARIN <info at arin.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> A new suggestion was received through the ACSP, and was assigned number
>>>  2014.10
>>> upon receipt of confirmation.
>>>
>>>
>>> The text of the Suggestion is available at:
>>> https://www.arin.net/participate/acsp/suggestions/2014-10.html
>>>
>>>
>>> ARIN will issue an initial response within 10 business days.
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>>
>>> Communications and Member Services
>>> American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ***
>>> * Suggestion: *
>>>
>>> With election time starting to be on the horizon again, it's time for
>>> ARIN to address the events of October in Phoenix, where an outgoing
>>> Board
>>> member hijacked the agenda to stump for his preferred board candidates,
>>> and
>>> an AC candidate used his speech time to endorse others.
>>>
>>> I think that for the integrity of the ARIN election process to remain
>>> intact, ARIN either needs to remove candidate speeches and stick to
>>> written
>>> materials, or have the speeches given in premade form like a video or
>>> something on the ARIN website.
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> arin-suggestions mailing list
>>> arin-suggestions at arin.net
>>> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-suggestions
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> ARIN-Discuss
>>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
>>> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net).
>>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
>>> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss
>>> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
>>>
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> ARIN-Discuss
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net).
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss
> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.




From paul at egate.net  Thu Jun  5 14:42:16 2014
From: paul at egate.net (Paul Andersen)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 14:42:16 -0400
Subject: [arin-discuss] Fwd: [ARIN-Suggestions] New ACSP Suggestion
	2014.10: CHANGES TO CANDIDATE SPEECHES
In-Reply-To: <5390A91D.1060900@egate.net>
References: <mailman.8589.1401924873.28847.arin-suggestions@arin.net>	<A5D2B5A2-6814-492C-8372-271600BECFE7@delong.com>	<CAC6JZKQJ3st6cAyTcCHrEE46i+srM4kHVqGFH=kqxnVmb7s80w@mail.gmail.com>	<CAC6JZKSuNhevM2GpicNahyY1d5HdunzyxTWnaaJ9cEPHFViS1Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<F01F215A-8632-4D80-A86A-A81BC90CFCD8@sandiford.com>
	<5390A91D.1060900@egate.net>
Message-ID: <DB5B4497-F494-4439-ACF8-EEFF3DDDE00B@egate.net>


-1

I'm having a hard time reconciling what is going on here. 

The idea of effectively pre-approving candidate messaging feels to me like the proposed cure is worse then the disease. Who will approve these? And when a video isn't approved what stops that person from publishing it on youtube anyway? (Each candidate gets a link to a webpage currently). And what if they instead just encourage people to visit a link where said endorsement is made? Or if they are wearing a T-Shirt with the other candidate?  A picture of the other candidate on their desk? Will all those be blocked?

We also seem to encourage the idea of third party endorsements. There is an entire section dedicated in the election website to that purpose. 

I'm also uncomfortable with the concept of "severe penalties". It am gathering from the comments that Bernadette did not solicit Owen's endorsement. Would the penalty be against Owen? Bernadette? Again -- this all starts to get ugly quick.

Is the cleaner solution that if your offended by what a candidate just don't vote for them?

And are we going to get into all the other ways people try and rally votes? Facebook? Twitter? Direct Emailing? I think if we're going to start putting policies around this we need to look at the whole picture and not just one aspect of it.

Cheers,

Paul


(Full Disclosure: Two elections ago there was a rash of this happening during the BoT speeches of which I was a candidate. I'm pretty sure somebody endorsed me - but others endorsed candidates who were not me. I thought it was strange but was not upset by it).

> 
> 
> On 6/5/2014 10:52 AM, Bill Sandiford wrote:
>> +1 
>> 
>> I was a candidate one of the years that this occurred.  It was very upsetting.  I believe a good set of rules, with severe penalties if broken, is sufficient to ensure this doesn?t happen again.  A prohibition on speeches seems excessive to me.
>> 
>> Bill
>> 
>> On Jun 5, 2014, at 9:45 AM, CJ Aronson <cja at daydream.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> It has been brought to my attention that this has happened more than once.  My mistake.  The more reason that there should be guidelines for candidate speeches.  I still think taking them away completely is extreme.
>>> 
>>> Thanks!
>>> ----Cathy
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 8:38 PM, CJ Aronson <cja at daydream.com> wrote:
>>> Wow I agree with Owen.  I believe that in person speeches are useful and give the community a chance to get to know the candidates.  Everyone who is willing to run for election should be told the rules.  in the whole history of ARIN this issue has appeared in one election and I feel that if the candidates are told the rules there will be no further problems. 
>>> 
>>> Thanks!
>>> ----Cathy
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 6:04 PM, Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I oppose the implementation of this suggestion.
>>> 
>>> No rule prohibiting what Paul and I did existed prior to our doing it. I don?t see any way in which it impacted the integrity of the election process.
>>> 
>>> However, it has been made clear that such conduct is not desired and I see no reason that simply making that fact known is not sufficient. Going to written-only or pre-fabricated speeches is an unnecessary overreaction, IMHO.
>>> 
>>> Owen
>>> 
>>> On Jun 4, 2014, at 9:04 AM, ARIN <info at arin.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> A new suggestion was received through the ACSP, and was assigned number  2014.10 upon receipt of confirmation.
>>>>  
>>>> The text of the Suggestion is available at: https://www.arin.net/participate/acsp/suggestions/2014-10.html
>>>>  
>>>> ARIN will issue an initial response within 10 business days.
>>>>  
>>>> Regards,
>>>>  
>>>> Communications and Member Services
>>>> American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN)
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ***
>>>> Suggestion: 
>>>> 
>>>> With election time starting to be on the horizon again, it's time for ARIN to address the events of October in Phoenix, where an outgoing Board member hijacked the agenda to stump for his preferred board candidates, and an AC candidate used his speech time to endorse others.
>>>> 
>>>> I think that for the integrity of the ARIN election process to remain intact, ARIN either needs to remove candidate speeches and stick to written materials, or have the speeches given in premade form like a video or something on the ARIN website.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> arin-suggestions mailing list
>>>> arin-suggestions at arin.net
>>>> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-suggestions
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> ARIN-Discuss
>>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
>>> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net).
>>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
>>> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss
>>> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> ARIN-Discuss
>>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
>>> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net).
>>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
>>> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss
>>> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> ARIN-Discuss
>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
>> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net).
>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
>> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss
>> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
> 

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From rs at seastrom.com  Thu Jun  5 15:13:11 2014
From: rs at seastrom.com (Rob Seastrom)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2014 15:13:11 -0400
Subject: [arin-discuss] Fwd: [ARIN-Suggestions] New ACSP Suggestion
	2014.10: CHANGES TO CANDIDATE SPEECHES
In-Reply-To: <DB5B4497-F494-4439-ACF8-EEFF3DDDE00B@egate.net> (Paul Andersen's
	message of "Thu, 5 Jun 2014 14:42:16 -0400")
References: <mailman.8589.1401924873.28847.arin-suggestions@arin.net>
	<A5D2B5A2-6814-492C-8372-271600BECFE7@delong.com>
	<CAC6JZKQJ3st6cAyTcCHrEE46i+srM4kHVqGFH=kqxnVmb7s80w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC6JZKSuNhevM2GpicNahyY1d5HdunzyxTWnaaJ9cEPHFViS1Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<F01F215A-8632-4D80-A86A-A81BC90CFCD8@sandiford.com>
	<5390A91D.1060900@egate.net>
	<DB5B4497-F494-4439-ACF8-EEFF3DDDE00B@egate.net>
Message-ID: <86egz32mrc.fsf@valhalla.seastrom.com>


Paul Andersen <paul at egate.net> writes:

> 				      -1 
> I'm having a hard time
> reconciling what is going on here.  The idea of effectively
> pre-approving candidate messaging feels to me like the proposed cure
> is worse then the disease.

Agree with Paul here.  Candidates are given a couple of minutes to
present, nominally to say something about their platform and why you
should vote for them.

A time-limited presentation is all the restriction that is proper.  If
the candidate wishes to go off on a completely unrelated tangent,
expound on conspiracy theories, or recite poetry that ought to be
their prerogative.  If the oration is completely irrelevant to the
election, hopefully that will inform the electorate's voting decision.

Specious allegations from the usual directions notwithstanding, a
statement of endorsement for another candidate has nothing to do with
"election rigging".  I expect that anyone who is qualified to stand
for an AC position will have a campaign statement that is more
substantive than merely saying to vote for someone else (though that
might be entirely reasonable in isolated cases).

Dictating the terms and framework of the message seem a bit over the
top to me.

In summary, opposed to ACSP 2014.10.

-r



From bill at sandiford.com  Thu Jun  5 15:32:24 2014
From: bill at sandiford.com (Bill Sandiford)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 15:32:24 -0400
Subject: [arin-discuss] Fwd: [ARIN-Suggestions] New ACSP Suggestion
	2014.10: CHANGES TO CANDIDATE SPEECHES
In-Reply-To: <86egz32mrc.fsf@valhalla.seastrom.com>
References: <mailman.8589.1401924873.28847.arin-suggestions@arin.net>
	<A5D2B5A2-6814-492C-8372-271600BECFE7@delong.com>
	<CAC6JZKQJ3st6cAyTcCHrEE46i+srM4kHVqGFH=kqxnVmb7s80w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC6JZKSuNhevM2GpicNahyY1d5HdunzyxTWnaaJ9cEPHFViS1Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<F01F215A-8632-4D80-A86A-A81BC90CFCD8@sandiford.com>
	<5390A91D.1060900@egate.net>
	<DB5B4497-F494-4439-ACF8-EEFF3DDDE00B@egate.net>
	<86egz32mrc.fsf@valhalla.seastrom.com>
Message-ID: <D9632D78-0444-476C-9C50-0AA405ABFB9A@sandiford.com>

For clarity, my +1 earlier was in relation to the comments of Cathy Aronson.

I am opposed to ACSP-2014.10

On Jun 5, 2014, at 3:13 PM, Rob Seastrom <rs at seastrom.com> wrote:

> 
> Paul Andersen <paul at egate.net> writes:
> 
>> 				      -1 
>> I'm having a hard time
>> reconciling what is going on here.  The idea of effectively
>> pre-approving candidate messaging feels to me like the proposed cure
>> is worse then the disease.
> 
> Agree with Paul here.  Candidates are given a couple of minutes to
> present, nominally to say something about their platform and why you
> should vote for them.
> 
> A time-limited presentation is all the restriction that is proper.  If
> the candidate wishes to go off on a completely unrelated tangent,
> expound on conspiracy theories, or recite poetry that ought to be
> their prerogative.  If the oration is completely irrelevant to the
> election, hopefully that will inform the electorate's voting decision.
> 
> Specious allegations from the usual directions notwithstanding, a
> statement of endorsement for another candidate has nothing to do with
> "election rigging".  I expect that anyone who is qualified to stand
> for an AC position will have a campaign statement that is more
> substantive than merely saying to vote for someone else (though that
> might be entirely reasonable in isolated cases).
> 
> Dictating the terms and framework of the message seem a bit over the
> top to me.
> 
> In summary, opposed to ACSP 2014.10.
> 
> -r
> 



From lsawyer at gci.com  Thu Jun  5 15:34:58 2014
From: lsawyer at gci.com (Leif Sawyer)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 11:34:58 -0800
Subject: [arin-discuss] Fwd: [ARIN-Suggestions] New ACSP
	Suggestion	2014.10: CHANGES TO CANDIDATE SPEECHES
Message-ID: <18B2C6E38A3A324986B392B2D18ABC5102C9755418@fnb1mbx01.gci.com>

I am opposed to this.
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From tim at bobbroadband.com  Thu Jun  5 15:47:40 2014
From: tim at bobbroadband.com (Tim Huffman)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 19:47:40 +0000
Subject: [arin-discuss] Fwd: [ARIN-Suggestions] New
	ACSP	Suggestion	2014.10: CHANGES TO CANDIDATE SPEECHES
In-Reply-To: <18B2C6E38A3A324986B392B2D18ABC5102C9755418@fnb1mbx01.gci.com>
References: <18B2C6E38A3A324986B392B2D18ABC5102C9755418@fnb1mbx01.gci.com>
Message-ID: <9734000BBB8ABA4F8F6588608FD3CDAD2AFB8CD2@mbx028-e1-va-8.exch028.domain.local>

I?m opposed to this.

Tim Huffman
Director of Engineering
Business Only Broadband
999 Oak Creek Dr, Lombard, IL 60148
Direct: 630.590.6012 | Main: 630.590.6000 | Fax: 630.986.2496
thuffman at bobbroadband.com<mailto:thuffman at bobbroadband.com>  |  http://www.bobbroadband.com/
Cell:  630.340.1925 | Toll-Free Customer Support:  877.262.4553
[https://staticapp.icpsc.com/icp/loadimage.php/mogile/933825/747f0f3e66a4e0ce7633ff898bfc5121/image/png]  Follow Us on LinkedIn<http://www.linkedin.com/company/business-only-broadband>  |  [https://files.icontact.com/templates/v2/CleanAndSimple/images/twitter.gif]   Follow Us on Twitter<https://twitter.com/#%21/BOBbroadband>
P please consider the environment prior to printing
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From Mel.Stotyn at sjrb.ca  Thu Jun  5 16:34:07 2014
From: Mel.Stotyn at sjrb.ca (Mel Stotyn)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 20:34:07 +0000
Subject: [arin-discuss] New ACSP	Suggestion 2014.10: CHANGES TO
 CANDIDATE SPEECHES
Message-ID: <6D780D93964E0F449A6C1AAA0EA606930936FF71@PRDEXCHMBXW01.OSS.PRD>

Opposed.

Mel Stotyn  Technical Operations Specialist, Technical NMC
Shaw Business #3120-I 3636 23 St NE, Calgary AB  T2E 8Z5
T: 403 648 5736  C: 403 689 7371   F: 403 930 9585
E: mel.stotyn at sjrb.ca<mailto:mel.stotyn at sjrb.ca>

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From jcurran at arin.net  Thu Jun  5 16:51:14 2014
From: jcurran at arin.net (John Curran)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 20:51:14 +0000
Subject: [arin-discuss] Fwd: [ARIN-Suggestions] New
	ACSP	Suggestion	2014.10: CHANGES TO CANDIDATE SPEECHES
In-Reply-To: <18B2C6E38A3A324986B392B2D18ABC5102C9755418@fnb1mbx01.gci.com>
References: <18B2C6E38A3A324986B392B2D18ABC5102C9755418@fnb1mbx01.gci.com>
Message-ID: <344E6793-1B14-47CE-8961-29A68799951B@arin.net>


On Jun 5, 2014, at 3:35 PM, "Leif Sawyer" <lsawyer at gci.com<mailto:lsawyer at gci.com>> wrote:

I am opposed to this.

Opposed to video speeches, or election procedure that
say that candidates should speak to their qualifications?

Thanks!
/John

John Curran
President and CEO
ARIN
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From jay at impulse.net  Thu Jun  5 17:22:06 2014
From: jay at impulse.net (Jay Hennigan)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2014 14:22:06 -0700
Subject: [arin-discuss] Fwd: [ARIN-Suggestions] New ACSP Suggestion
 2014.10: CHANGES TO CANDIDATE SPEECHES
In-Reply-To: <42E25678-8A65-48CB-B8D7-6E6D3E288851@la-broadband.com>
References: <mailman.8589.1401924873.28847.arin-suggestions@arin.net>	<A5D2B5A2-6814-492C-8372-271600BECFE7@delong.com>	<97B6EB65-09A8-4537-BCA8-A02F807230EA@corp.arin.net>	<8C6122D6-B26C-4DE0-9FB6-3111C0A6716F@delong.com>
	<42E25678-8A65-48CB-B8D7-6E6D3E288851@la-broadband.com>
Message-ID: <5390DF7E.5060901@impulse.net>

On 6/5/14, 1:08 AM, Jesse Geddis wrote:
> John,
>
> Is it written down anywhere that would be obvious to everyone? Honestly,
> it would have never occurred to me such an uncouth thing would happen.

If a candidate for office does something that you consider to be 
patently uncouth and offensive, the solution to the problem in my 
opinion would be to cast your vote for that candidate's opponent.

There are some political races and measures about which I have no strong 
opinions one way or the other.  My methodology in such cases is to vote 
for whichever candidate or side telemarkets me the least.  Robocalls 
count double.  A pox on politicians for exempting themselves from the 
do-not-call rules.


From ali at origen.ca  Thu Jun  5 17:23:27 2014
From: ali at origen.ca (Ali Saeed)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 21:23:27 +0000
Subject: [arin-discuss] Fwd: [ARIN-Suggestions] New ACSP Suggestion
 2014.10: CHANGES TO CANDIDATE SPEECHES
In-Reply-To: <5390DF7E.5060901@impulse.net>
References: <mailman.8589.1401924873.28847.arin-suggestions@arin.net>
	<A5D2B5A2-6814-492C-8372-271600BECFE7@delong.com>
	<97B6EB65-09A8-4537-BCA8-A02F807230EA@corp.arin.net>
	<8C6122D6-B26C-4DE0-9FB6-3111C0A6716F@delong.com>
	<42E25678-8A65-48CB-B8D7-6E6D3E288851@la-broadband.com>
	<5390DF7E.5060901@impulse.net>
Message-ID: <424b0cf7d1654443bbda361ce2a37a0a@BL2PR05MB068.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>

Can I not be copied on this this is gfilling up my inbox and getting annoying.

-----Original Message-----
From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of Jay Hennigan
Sent: Thursday, June 5, 2014 5:22 PM
To: arin-discuss at arin.net
Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] Fwd: [ARIN-Suggestions] New ACSP Suggestion 2014.10: CHANGES TO CANDIDATE SPEECHES

On 6/5/14, 1:08 AM, Jesse Geddis wrote:
> John,
>
> Is it written down anywhere that would be obvious to everyone? 
> Honestly, it would have never occurred to me such an uncouth thing would happen.

If a candidate for office does something that you consider to be patently uncouth and offensive, the solution to the problem in my opinion would be to cast your vote for that candidate's opponent.

There are some political races and measures about which I have no strong opinions one way or the other.  My methodology in such cases is to vote for whichever candidate or side telemarkets me the least.  Robocalls count double.  A pox on politicians for exempting themselves from the do-not-call rules.
_______________________________________________
ARIN-Discuss
You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net).
Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss
Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.


From jwb at liveair.net  Thu Jun  5 17:33:49 2014
From: jwb at liveair.net (Breeden, James W.)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 16:33:49 -0500
Subject: [arin-discuss] Fwd: [ARIN-Suggestions] New ACSP Suggestion
 2014.10: CHANGES TO CANDIDATE SPEECHES
Message-ID: <vqt620idyhe42y4ygdww6ppc.1402004020952@email.android.com>

I agree this is ridiculous.  If a candidate or their supporters is being public ally immature as determined by the voters they may not be elected. Process isn't broken. And frankly, we all have better issues to be spending our time on.

James Breeden
CEO
LiveAir Networks
Smithville,  TX


Sent via the Samsung GALAXY S? 5, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Ali Saeed
Date:06/05/2014 4:23 PM (GMT-06:00)
To: Jay Hennigan , arin-discuss at arin.net
Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] Fwd: [ARIN-Suggestions] New ACSP Suggestion 2014.10: CHANGES TO CANDIDATE SPEECHES

Can I not be copied on this this is gfilling up my inbox and getting annoying.

-----Original Message-----
From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of Jay Hennigan
Sent: Thursday, June 5, 2014 5:22 PM
To: arin-discuss at arin.net
Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] Fwd: [ARIN-Suggestions] New ACSP Suggestion 2014.10: CHANGES TO CANDIDATE SPEECHES

On 6/5/14, 1:08 AM, Jesse Geddis wrote:
> John,
>
> Is it written down anywhere that would be obvious to everyone?
> Honestly, it would have never occurred to me such an uncouth thing would happen.

If a candidate for office does something that you consider to be patently uncouth and offensive, the solution to the problem in my opinion would be to cast your vote for that candidate's opponent.

There are some political races and measures about which I have no strong opinions one way or the other.  My methodology in such cases is to vote for whichever candidate or side telemarkets me the least.  Robocalls count double.  A pox on politicians for exempting themselves from the do-not-call rules.
_______________________________________________
ARIN-Discuss
You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net).
Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss
Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
_______________________________________________
ARIN-Discuss
You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net).
Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss
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________________________________
Proprietary Information Notice: This message may contain proprietary information that is the property of LiveAir Networks or its clients. Such information may not be shared with outside entities without the prior written consent of LiveAir Networks. If you have received this message in error please destroy it immediately.
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From owen at delong.com  Thu Jun  5 23:55:21 2014
From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 20:55:21 -0700
Subject: [arin-discuss] Fwd: [ARIN-Suggestions] New ACSP Suggestion
	2014.10: CHANGES TO CANDIDATE SPEECHES
In-Reply-To: <DB5B4497-F494-4439-ACF8-EEFF3DDDE00B@egate.net>
References: <mailman.8589.1401924873.28847.arin-suggestions@arin.net>	<A5D2B5A2-6814-492C-8372-271600BECFE7@delong.com>	<CAC6JZKQJ3st6cAyTcCHrEE46i+srM4kHVqGFH=kqxnVmb7s80w@mail.gmail.com>	<CAC6JZKSuNhevM2GpicNahyY1d5HdunzyxTWnaaJ9cEPHFViS1Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<F01F215A-8632-4D80-A86A-A81BC90CFCD8@sandiford.com>
	<5390A91D.1060900@egate.net>
	<DB5B4497-F494-4439-ACF8-EEFF3DDDE00B@egate.net>
Message-ID: <DC251DBF-FDC7-4C44-BAD6-8C0409253EA7@delong.com>


On Jun 5, 2014, at 11:42 AM, Paul Andersen <paul at egate.net> wrote:

> 
> -1
> 
> I'm having a hard time reconciling what is going on here. 
> 
> The idea of effectively pre-approving candidate messaging feels to me like the proposed cure is worse then the disease. Who will approve these? And when a video isn't approved what stops that person from publishing it on youtube anyway? (Each candidate gets a link to a webpage currently). And what if they instead just encourage people to visit a link where said endorsement is made? Or if they are wearing a T-Shirt with the other candidate?  A picture of the other candidate on their desk? Will all those be blocked?
> 
> We also seem to encourage the idea of third party endorsements. There is an entire section dedicated in the election website to that purpose. 
> 
> I'm also uncomfortable with the concept of "severe penalties". It am gathering from the comments that Bernadette did not solicit Owen's endorsement. Would the penalty be against Owen? Bernadette? Again -- this all starts to get ugly quick.

Just to confirm and be completely clear here? Bernadette did not solicit my endorsement. In fact, I personally asked and encouraged her to run for the position in the first place. I don?t think she even knew I was going to do what I did before I did it.

Owen




From michael+ppml at burnttofu.net  Fri Jun  6 00:58:38 2014
From: michael+ppml at burnttofu.net (Michael Sinatra)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2014 21:58:38 -0700
Subject: [arin-discuss] Fwd: [ARIN-Suggestions] New ACSP Suggestion
 2014.10: CHANGES TO CANDIDATE SPEECHES
In-Reply-To: <A5D2B5A2-6814-492C-8372-271600BECFE7@delong.com>
References: <mailman.8589.1401924873.28847.arin-suggestions@arin.net>
	<A5D2B5A2-6814-492C-8372-271600BECFE7@delong.com>
Message-ID: <53914A7E.2010204@burnttofu.net>

I am emphatically and categorically opposed to the below suggestion, as
much as I respect its author.

Really, folks, let's move on.

michael

> On Jun 4, 2014, at 9:04 AM, ARIN <info at arin.net <mailto:info at arin.net>>
> wrote:
> 
>> A new suggestion was received through the ACSP, and was assigned
>> number  2014.10 upon receipt of confirmation.
>>
>>  
>>
>> The text of the Suggestion is available
>> at: https://www.arin.net/participate/acsp/suggestions/2014-10.html
>>
>>  
>>
>> ARIN will issue an initial response within 10 business days.
>>
>>  
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>  
>>
>> Communications and Member Services
>> American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN)
>>
>>  
>>
>>
>>
>> ****
>> Suggestion: *
>>
>> With election time starting to be on the horizon again, it's time for
>> ARIN to address the events of October in Phoenix, where an outgoing
>> Board member hijacked the agenda to stump for his preferred board
>> candidates, and an AC candidate used his speech time to endorse others.
>>
>> I think that for the integrity of the ARIN election process to remain
>> intact, ARIN either needs to remove candidate speeches and stick to
>> written materials, or have the speeches given in premade form like a
>> video or something on the ARIN website.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> arin-suggestions mailing list
>> arin-suggestions at arin.net <mailto:arin-suggestions at arin.net>
>> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-suggestions
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ARIN-Discuss
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net).
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss
> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
> 



From john at citylinkfiber.com  Fri Jun  6 09:37:38 2014
From: john at citylinkfiber.com (John Brown)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 07:37:38 -0600
Subject: [arin-discuss] Fwd: [ARIN-Suggestions] New ACSP Suggestion
 2014.10: CHANGES TO CANDIDATE SPEECHES
In-Reply-To: <DB5B4497-F494-4439-ACF8-EEFF3DDDE00B@egate.net>
References: <mailman.8589.1401924873.28847.arin-suggestions@arin.net>
	<A5D2B5A2-6814-492C-8372-271600BECFE7@delong.com>
	<CAC6JZKQJ3st6cAyTcCHrEE46i+srM4kHVqGFH=kqxnVmb7s80w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC6JZKSuNhevM2GpicNahyY1d5HdunzyxTWnaaJ9cEPHFViS1Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<F01F215A-8632-4D80-A86A-A81BC90CFCD8@sandiford.com>
	<5390A91D.1060900@egate.net>
	<DB5B4497-F494-4439-ACF8-EEFF3DDDE00B@egate.net>
Message-ID: <CAH_b1v4p3h40peAFx=KRJMKeOrsGAmdFFWSRy8S+u6jpvD-sUQ@mail.gmail.com>

censorship is not a good thing.  fear leads to the darkside.

if a candidate does something stewpid, then the voters can signal that
with their votes, or lack there of.

Less rules, better

On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 12:42 PM, Paul Andersen <paul at egate.net> wrote:
>
> -1
>
> I'm having a hard time reconciling what is going on here.
>
> The idea of effectively pre-approving candidate messaging feels to me like
> the proposed cure is worse then the disease. Who will approve these? And
> when a video isn't approved what stops that person from publishing it on
> youtube anyway? (Each candidate gets a link to a webpage currently). And
> what if they instead just encourage people to visit a link where said
> endorsement is made? Or if they are wearing a T-Shirt with the other
> candidate?  A picture of the other candidate on their desk? Will all those
> be blocked?
>
> We also seem to encourage the idea of third party endorsements. There is an
> entire section dedicated in the election website to that purpose.
>
> I'm also uncomfortable with the concept of "severe penalties". It am
> gathering from the comments that Bernadette did not solicit Owen's
> endorsement. Would the penalty be against Owen? Bernadette? Again -- this
> all starts to get ugly quick.
>
> Is the cleaner solution that if your offended by what a candidate just don't
> vote for them?
>
> And are we going to get into all the other ways people try and rally votes?
> Facebook? Twitter? Direct Emailing? I think if we're going to start putting
> policies around this we need to look at the whole picture and not just one
> aspect of it.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Paul
>
>
> (Full Disclosure: Two elections ago there was a rash of this happening
> during the BoT speeches of which I was a candidate. I'm pretty sure somebody
> endorsed me - but others endorsed candidates who were not me. I thought it
> was strange but was not upset by it).
>
>
>
> On 6/5/2014 10:52 AM, Bill Sandiford wrote:
>
> +1
>
> I was a candidate one of the years that this occurred.  It was very
> upsetting.  I believe a good set of rules, with severe penalties if broken,
> is sufficient to ensure this doesn?t happen again.  A prohibition on
> speeches seems excessive to me.
>
> Bill
>
> On Jun 5, 2014, at 9:45 AM, CJ Aronson <cja at daydream.com> wrote:
>
> It has been brought to my attention that this has happened more than once.
> My mistake.  The more reason that there should be guidelines for candidate
> speeches.  I still think taking them away completely is extreme.
>
> Thanks!
> ----Cathy
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 8:38 PM, CJ Aronson <cja at daydream.com> wrote:
>>
>> Wow I agree with Owen.  I believe that in person speeches are useful and
>> give the community a chance to get to know the candidates.  Everyone who is
>> willing to run for election should be told the rules.  in the whole history
>> of ARIN this issue has appeared in one election and I feel that if the
>> candidates are told the rules there will be no further problems.
>>
>> Thanks!
>> ----Cathy
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 6:04 PM, Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I oppose the implementation of this suggestion.
>>>
>>> No rule prohibiting what Paul and I did existed prior to our doing it. I
>>> don?t see any way in which it impacted the integrity of the election
>>> process.
>>>
>>> However, it has been made clear that such conduct is not desired and I
>>> see no reason that simply making that fact known is not sufficient. Going to
>>> written-only or pre-fabricated speeches is an unnecessary overreaction,
>>> IMHO.
>>>
>>> Owen
>>>
>>> On Jun 4, 2014, at 9:04 AM, ARIN <info at arin.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> A new suggestion was received through the ACSP, and was assigned number
>>> 2014.10 upon receipt of confirmation.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The text of the Suggestion is available at:
>>> https://www.arin.net/participate/acsp/suggestions/2014-10.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ARIN will issue an initial response within 10 business days.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Communications and Member Services
>>> American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ***
>>> Suggestion:
>>>
>>> With election time starting to be on the horizon again, it's time for
>>> ARIN to address the events of October in Phoenix, where an outgoing Board
>>> member hijacked the agenda to stump for his preferred board candidates, and
>>> an AC candidate used his speech time to endorse others.
>>>
>>> I think that for the integrity of the ARIN election process to remain
>>> intact, ARIN either needs to remove candidate speeches and stick to written
>>> materials, or have the speeches given in premade form like a video or
>>> something on the ARIN website.
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> arin-suggestions mailing list
>>> arin-suggestions at arin.net
>>> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-suggestions
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> ARIN-Discuss
>>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
>>> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net).
>>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
>>> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss
>>> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ARIN-Discuss
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net).
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss
> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ARIN-Discuss
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net).
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss
> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ARIN-Discuss
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net).
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss
> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.


From bkthompson at monroega.gov  Fri Jun  6 09:37:49 2014
From: bkthompson at monroega.gov (Brian Thompson)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 13:37:49 +0000
Subject: [arin-discuss] Fwd: [ARIN-Suggestions] New ACSP Suggestion
 2014.10: CHANGES TO CANDIDATE SPEECHES
In-Reply-To: <53914A7E.2010204@burnttofu.net>
References: <mailman.8589.1401924873.28847.arin-suggestions@arin.net>
	<A5D2B5A2-6814-492C-8372-271600BECFE7@delong.com>,
	<53914A7E.2010204@burnttofu.net>
Message-ID: <72EDD62F-2BB1-47C3-B1EF-CCE8CAA16BDC@MonroeGA.gov>

I am just tired of this. I too am opposed to the suggestion, but could we all start acting like the intelligent adults we are supposed to be

bkt. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 6, 2014, at 12:59 AM, "Michael Sinatra" <michael+ppml at burnttofu.net> wrote:
> 
> I am emphatically and categorically opposed to the below suggestion, as
> much as I respect its author.
> 
> Really, folks, let's move on.
> 
> michael
> 
>> On Jun 4, 2014, at 9:04 AM, ARIN <info at arin.net <mailto:info at arin.net>>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> A new suggestion was received through the ACSP, and was assigned
>>> number  2014.10 upon receipt of confirmation.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The text of the Suggestion is available
>>> at: https://www.arin.net/participate/acsp/suggestions/2014-10.html
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ARIN will issue an initial response within 10 business days.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Communications and Member Services
>>> American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ****
>>> Suggestion: *
>>> 
>>> With election time starting to be on the horizon again, it's time for
>>> ARIN to address the events of October in Phoenix, where an outgoing
>>> Board member hijacked the agenda to stump for his preferred board
>>> candidates, and an AC candidate used his speech time to endorse others.
>>> 
>>> I think that for the integrity of the ARIN election process to remain
>>> intact, ARIN either needs to remove candidate speeches and stick to
>>> written materials, or have the speeches given in premade form like a
>>> video or something on the ARIN website.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> arin-suggestions mailing list
>>> arin-suggestions at arin.net <mailto:arin-suggestions at arin.net>
>>> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-suggestions
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> ARIN-Discuss
>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
>> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net).
>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
>> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss
>> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ARIN-Discuss
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net).
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss
> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.


From swm at emanon.com  Fri Jun  6 07:34:05 2014
From: swm at emanon.com (Scott Morris)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 07:34:05 -0400
Subject: [arin-discuss] Fwd: [ARIN-Suggestions] New ACSP Suggestion
 2014.10: CHANGES TO CANDIDATE SPEECHES
In-Reply-To: <53914A7E.2010204@burnttofu.net>
References: <mailman.8589.1401924873.28847.arin-suggestions@arin.net>
	<A5D2B5A2-6814-492C-8372-271600BECFE7@delong.com>
	<53914A7E.2010204@burnttofu.net>
Message-ID: <CFB71E6F.F072C%swm@emanon.com>

So I feel that I missed some of the fun along the way.  Exactly how much
time was spent with these unsolicited endorsements???  I mean, this didn?t
turn into a filibuster, did it?  If so, there are concepts within Roberts?
Rules that would assist with that.

But the suggestion as it is written doesn?t seem to be an appropriate
solution.  If someone wants to talk about off-topic things, no matter how
detailed the rules, they?ll always find some way to do so.  And if people
are that put out by it, then the most appropriate action is to simply not
vote for the people that they like (although that brings about a whole
reverse-psychology idea too!).

The process doesn?t appear to be broken.  Just a few individuals and their
use of it.

My two cents, although I wasn?t there?

Scott


-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Sinatra <michael+ppml at burnttofu.net>
Date: Friday, June 6, 2014 at 12:58 AM
To: "arin-discuss at arin.net List" <arin-discuss at arin.net>
Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] Fwd: [ARIN-Suggestions] New ACSP Suggestion
2014.10: CHANGES TO CANDIDATE SPEECHES

>I am emphatically and categorically opposed to the below suggestion, as
>much as I respect its author.
>
>Really, folks, let's move on.
>
>michael
>
>> On Jun 4, 2014, at 9:04 AM, ARIN <info at arin.net <mailto:info at arin.net>>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> A new suggestion was received through the ACSP, and was assigned
>>> number  2014.10 upon receipt of confirmation.
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> The text of the Suggestion is available
>>> at: https://www.arin.net/participate/acsp/suggestions/2014-10.html
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> ARIN will issue an initial response within 10 business days.
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> Communications and Member Services
>>> American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN)
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ****
>>> Suggestion: *
>>>
>>> With election time starting to be on the horizon again, it's time for
>>> ARIN to address the events of October in Phoenix, where an outgoing
>>> Board member hijacked the agenda to stump for his preferred board
>>> candidates, and an AC candidate used his speech time to endorse others.
>>>
>>> I think that for the integrity of the ARIN election process to remain
>>> intact, ARIN either needs to remove candidate speeches and stick to
>>> written materials, or have the speeches given in premade form like a
>>> video or something on the ARIN website.
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> arin-suggestions mailing list
>>> arin-suggestions at arin.net <mailto:arin-suggestions at arin.net>
>>> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-suggestions
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> ARIN-Discuss
>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
>> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net).
>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
>> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss
>> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
>> 
>
>_______________________________________________
>ARIN-Discuss
>You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
>the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net).
>Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
>http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss
>Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.




From rs at seastrom.com  Fri Jun  6 11:26:25 2014
From: rs at seastrom.com (Rob Seastrom)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2014 11:26:25 -0400
Subject: [arin-discuss] Fwd: [ARIN-Suggestions] New ACSP Suggestion
	2014.10: CHANGES TO CANDIDATE SPEECHES
In-Reply-To: <CFB71E6F.F072C%swm@emanon.com> (Scott Morris's message of "Fri,
	6 Jun 2014 07:34:05 -0400")
References: <mailman.8589.1401924873.28847.arin-suggestions@arin.net>
	<A5D2B5A2-6814-492C-8372-271600BECFE7@delong.com>
	<53914A7E.2010204@burnttofu.net> <CFB71E6F.F072C%swm@emanon.com>
Message-ID: <867g4uoy8u.fsf@valhalla.seastrom.com>


Scott Morris <swm at emanon.com> writes:

> So I feel that I missed some of the fun along the way.  Exactly how much
> time was spent with these unsolicited endorsements???  I mean, this didn?t
> turn into a filibuster, did it?  If so, there are concepts within Roberts?
> Rules that would assist with that.

A couple of tens of seconds, all told, across all endorsements.  This
is much ado about nothing.

> But the suggestion as it is written doesn?t seem to be an appropriate
> solution.  If someone wants to talk about off-topic things, no matter how
> detailed the rules, they?ll always find some way to do so.  And if people
> are that put out by it, then the most appropriate action is to simply not
> vote for the people that they like (although that brings about a whole
> reverse-psychology idea too!).

Precisely so.

> The process doesn?t appear to be broken.  Just a few individuals and their
> use of it.

Actually, I disagree.  I'm opposed to any suggestion that a candidate
ought to be restricted from talking about whatever he or she cares to
during their stump speech.  The electorate is entirely capable of
deciding whether a candidate's remarks are appropriate and acting
accordingly.

I couple of years ago I was standing for re-election but had the Chair
give my statement instead of delivering it personally since I was
being held against my will at Baylor University Medical Center by an
angry gall bladder.  Those who were in attendance will recall that I
made it back to the meeting a day and a half later, fortunately in
time to make some comments on 2012-7.  Had I returned a little earlier
and been able to make my speech personally I would have thanked
everyone for the good wishes and texts.  Had we been stuck with
pre-made videos or compelled to adhere to a vetted speech, expressing
such a sentiment would have been impossible or out of line.

-r



From jcurran at arin.net  Fri Jun  6 11:41:13 2014
From: jcurran at arin.net (John Curran)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 15:41:13 +0000
Subject: [arin-discuss] [ARIN-Suggestions] New ACSP Suggestion	2014.10:
 CHANGES TO CANDIDATE SPEECHES
In-Reply-To: <867g4uoy8u.fsf@valhalla.seastrom.com>
References: <mailman.8589.1401924873.28847.arin-suggestions@arin.net>
	<A5D2B5A2-6814-492C-8372-271600BECFE7@delong.com>
	<53914A7E.2010204@burnttofu.net> <CFB71E6F.F072C%swm@emanon.com>
	<867g4uoy8u.fsf@valhalla.seastrom.com>
Message-ID: <313D04E3-3003-4F9A-923E-FD73E060F629@corp.arin.net>

On Jun 6, 2014, at 11:26 AM, Rob Seastrom <rs at seastrom.com> wrote:

> 
>> The process doesn?t appear to be broken.  Just a few individuals and their
>> use of it.
> 
> Actually, I disagree.  I'm opposed to any suggestion that a candidate
> ought to be restricted from talking about whatever he or she cares to
> during their stump speech.  The electorate is entirely capable of
> deciding whether a candidate's remarks are appropriate and acting
> accordingly.

RS - 

(presuming that we continue with the present predominantly live 
candidate speeches) 

Should candidates be told to briefly state their own qualifications 
for consideration by the electorate?  Or simply told that they've 
got 3 minutes, and "go for it?"   If candidates want endorsers to 
also speak, should they be able/encouraged to enter them as candidates 
as well so they get a speaking slot?

Thanks!
/John

John Curran
President and CEO
ARIN

From tim at bobbroadband.com  Fri Jun  6 12:05:21 2014
From: tim at bobbroadband.com (Tim Huffman)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 16:05:21 +0000
Subject: [arin-discuss] [ARIN-Suggestions] New ACSP Suggestion	2014.10:
 CHANGES TO CANDIDATE SPEECHES
In-Reply-To: <313D04E3-3003-4F9A-923E-FD73E060F629@corp.arin.net>
References: <mailman.8589.1401924873.28847.arin-suggestions@arin.net>
	<A5D2B5A2-6814-492C-8372-271600BECFE7@delong.com>
	<53914A7E.2010204@burnttofu.net> <CFB71E6F.F072C%swm@emanon.com>
	<867g4uoy8u.fsf@valhalla.seastrom.com>
	<313D04E3-3003-4F9A-923E-FD73E060F629@corp.arin.net>
Message-ID: <9734000BBB8ABA4F8F6588608FD3CDAD2AFBB5AD@mbx028-e1-va-8.exch028.domain.local>

> (presuming that we continue with the present predominantly live candidate speeches) 
>
>Should candidates be told to briefly state their own qualifications for consideration by the electorate?  Or simply told that >they've 
>got 3 minutes, and "go for it?"   If candidates want endorsers to 
>also speak, should they be able/encouraged to enter them as candidates as well so they get a speaking slot?

I think that stating their qualifications is a good idea, but shouldn't be a requirement. Registering people as candidates for the sole purpose of endorsing someone else seems like a very bad idea. If we really want to allow public endorsements (and I see no reason not to allow them), perhaps there should be an open discussion period such as the one during ARIN meetings for proposals that endorsers and detractors can use to discuss the merits of a particular candidate?


Tim Huffman
Director of Engineering
Business Only Broadband




From msalim at localweb.com  Fri Jun  6 12:12:35 2014
From: msalim at localweb.com (A. Michael Salim)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 12:12:35 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [arin-discuss] [ARIN-Suggestions] New ACSP Suggestion 2014.10:
 CHANGES TO CANDIDATE SPEECHES
In-Reply-To: <9734000BBB8ABA4F8F6588608FD3CDAD2AFBB5AD@mbx028-e1-va-8.exch028.domain.local>
References: <mailman.8589.1401924873.28847.arin-suggestions@arin.net>
	<A5D2B5A2-6814-492C-8372-271600BECFE7@delong.com>
	<53914A7E.2010204@burnttofu.net>
	<CFB71E6F.F072C%swm@emanon.com> <867g4uoy8u.fsf@valhalla.seastrom.com>
	<313D04E3-3003-4F9A-923E-FD73E060F629@corp.arin.net>
	<9734000BBB8ABA4F8F6588608FD3CDAD2AFBB5AD@mbx028-e1-va-8.exch028.domain.local>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1406061210500.11467@mx2.localweb.com>


Just curious, is anyone not opposed to the proposed change?  As far as I 
can tell, we have the following situation:

In favor: 1

Opposed: many

Don't care: many

Mike Salim

===================================================
A. Michael Salim, VP and CTO,
American Data Technology, Inc.,
P.O. Box 12892,
Research Triangle Park, NC 27709-2892 USA.
OFFICE: 800-525-0031
DIRECT: 919-544-4101 ext. 101
http://www.localweb.com/   (LocalWeb is a TRADEMARK)
===================================================



From john at citylinkfiber.com  Fri Jun  6 12:19:19 2014
From: john at citylinkfiber.com (John Brown)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 10:19:19 -0600
Subject: [arin-discuss] [ARIN-Suggestions] New ACSP Suggestion 2014.10:
 CHANGES TO CANDIDATE SPEECHES
In-Reply-To: <313D04E3-3003-4F9A-923E-FD73E060F629@corp.arin.net>
References: <mailman.8589.1401924873.28847.arin-suggestions@arin.net>
	<A5D2B5A2-6814-492C-8372-271600BECFE7@delong.com>
	<53914A7E.2010204@burnttofu.net> <CFB71E6F.F072C%swm@emanon.com>
	<867g4uoy8u.fsf@valhalla.seastrom.com>
	<313D04E3-3003-4F9A-923E-FD73E060F629@corp.arin.net>
Message-ID: <CAH_b1v6iH0OyoC+Jsq5MUw8CKuHHJC=kx9ifrVSUND-2is0kqA@mail.gmail.com>

Candidates should speak about themselves and with permission of the
other candidate could speak to endorse another candidate.



On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 9:41 AM, John Curran <jcurran at arin.net> wrote:
> On Jun 6, 2014, at 11:26 AM, Rob Seastrom <rs at seastrom.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>> The process doesn?t appear to be broken.  Just a few individuals and their
>>> use of it.
>>
>> Actually, I disagree.  I'm opposed to any suggestion that a candidate
>> ought to be restricted from talking about whatever he or she cares to
>> during their stump speech.  The electorate is entirely capable of
>> deciding whether a candidate's remarks are appropriate and acting
>> accordingly.
>
> RS -
>
> (presuming that we continue with the present predominantly live
> candidate speeches)
>
> Should candidates be told to briefly state their own qualifications
> for consideration by the electorate?  Or simply told that they've
> got 3 minutes, and "go for it?"   If candidates want endorsers to
> also speak, should they be able/encouraged to enter them as candidates
> as well so they get a speaking slot?
>
> Thanks!
> /John
>
> John Curran
> President and CEO
> ARIN
> _______________________________________________
> ARIN-Discuss
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net).
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss
> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.


From john at citylinkfiber.com  Fri Jun  6 12:21:46 2014
From: john at citylinkfiber.com (John Brown)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 10:21:46 -0600
Subject: [arin-discuss] [ARIN-Suggestions] New ACSP Suggestion 2014.10:
 CHANGES TO CANDIDATE SPEECHES
In-Reply-To: <9734000BBB8ABA4F8F6588608FD3CDAD2AFBB5AD@mbx028-e1-va-8.exch028.domain.local>
References: <mailman.8589.1401924873.28847.arin-suggestions@arin.net>
	<A5D2B5A2-6814-492C-8372-271600BECFE7@delong.com>
	<53914A7E.2010204@burnttofu.net> <CFB71E6F.F072C%swm@emanon.com>
	<867g4uoy8u.fsf@valhalla.seastrom.com>
	<313D04E3-3003-4F9A-923E-FD73E060F629@corp.arin.net>
	<9734000BBB8ABA4F8F6588608FD3CDAD2AFBB5AD@mbx028-e1-va-8.exch028.domain.local>
Message-ID: <CAH_b1v6rkQA-LN_z2BFfFsCSvrDk5DH3L2xjPTdmKHdnBfTYWg@mail.gmail.com>

Hmm, interesting point.

To be a candidate to simply create the ability to speak about another
is not fair to the election and review process.


Having a time controlled "open mike" for the general membership to
express a statement is not a bad idea.

I remember, that there used to be  (could still be) a way for people
to post written statements about a candidate.



On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 10:05 AM, Tim Huffman <tim at bobbroadband.com> wrote:
>> (presuming that we continue with the present predominantly live candidate speeches)
>>
>>Should candidates be told to briefly state their own qualifications for consideration by the electorate?  Or simply told that >they've
>>got 3 minutes, and "go for it?"   If candidates want endorsers to
>>also speak, should they be able/encouraged to enter them as candidates as well so they get a speaking slot?
>
> I think that stating their qualifications is a good idea, but shouldn't be a requirement. Registering people as candidates for the sole purpose of endorsing someone else seems like a very bad idea. If we really want to allow public endorsements (and I see no reason not to allow them), perhaps there should be an open discussion period such as the one during ARIN meetings for proposals that endorsers and detractors can use to discuss the merits of a particular candidate?
>
>
> Tim Huffman
> Director of Engineering
> Business Only Broadband
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ARIN-Discuss
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net).
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss
> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.


From jcurran at arin.net  Fri Jun  6 12:21:57 2014
From: jcurran at arin.net (John Curran)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 16:21:57 +0000
Subject: [arin-discuss] [ARIN-Suggestions] New ACSP Suggestion	2014.10:
 CHANGES TO CANDIDATE SPEECHES
In-Reply-To: <9734000BBB8ABA4F8F6588608FD3CDAD2AFBB5AD@mbx028-e1-va-8.exch028.domain.local>
References: <mailman.8589.1401924873.28847.arin-suggestions@arin.net>
	<A5D2B5A2-6814-492C-8372-271600BECFE7@delong.com>
	<53914A7E.2010204@burnttofu.net> <CFB71E6F.F072C%swm@emanon.com>
	<867g4uoy8u.fsf@valhalla.seastrom.com>
	<313D04E3-3003-4F9A-923E-FD73E060F629@corp.arin.net>
	<9734000BBB8ABA4F8F6588608FD3CDAD2AFBB5AD@mbx028-e1-va-8.exch028.domain.local>
Message-ID: <8F75A599-6C59-45CE-B0A2-0E7187396C78@corp.arin.net>

On Jun 6, 2014, at 12:05 PM, Tim Huffman <Tim at bobbroadband.com> wrote:

>> (presuming that we continue with the present predominantly live candidate speeches) 
>> 
>> Should candidates be told to briefly state their own qualifications for consideration by the electorate?  Or simply told that >they've 
>> got 3 minutes, and "go for it?"   If candidates want endorsers to 
>> also speak, should they be able/encouraged to enter them as candidates as well so they get a speaking slot?
> 
> I think that stating their qualifications is a good idea, but shouldn't be a requirement. Registering people as candidates for the sole purpose of endorsing someone else seems like a very bad idea.

Good to know.

I believe what we're hearing is that if we set expectations that the 
speeches are for candidates to describe their own qualifications, then 
the electorate can decide accordingly how to handle the treat candidates 
who run endorsers or similar games.

(If there are no expectations set, then it would be hard to penalize 
something who is just following the rules.)

> If we really want to allow public endorsements (and I see no reason not to allow them), perhaps there should be an open discussion period such as the one during ARIN meetings for proposals that endorsers and detractors can use to discuss the merits of a particular candidate?

We actually have allowed online statements of support for many years, 
and these are fairly actively used in each election  -
<https://www.arin.net/participate/elections/election_archive.html
Is anything needed in addition to the present online statements of
support?   

/John

John Curran
President and CEO
ARIN





From lsawyer at gci.com  Fri Jun  6 12:42:13 2014
From: lsawyer at gci.com (Leif Sawyer)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 08:42:13 -0800
Subject: [arin-discuss] Fwd: [ARIN-Suggestions] New
	ACSP	Suggestion	2014.10: CHANGES TO CANDIDATE SPEECHES
In-Reply-To: <344E6793-1B14-47CE-8961-29A68799951B@arin.net>
References: <18B2C6E38A3A324986B392B2D18ABC5102C9755418@fnb1mbx01.gci.com>
	<344E6793-1B14-47CE-8961-29A68799951B@arin.net>
Message-ID: <18B2C6E38A3A324986B392B2D18ABC5102C94612FA@fnb1mbx01.gci.com>

Sorry I didn't get back to this yesterday, I was attending the ARIN-on-the-Road  up here in sunny Anchorage, Alaska!


I'm opposed to the removal of candidate speeches.
I'm opposed to the enforcement of "sticking to written material", especially with the implied tone of "pre-vetted"


I am not opposed to having video speeches available -in addition to-  the normal in-person speech process,
but would be opposed to only being able to use pre-recorded (and again, implied pre-vetted) material.


From: John Curran [mailto:jcurran at arin.net]
Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 12:51 PM
To: Leif Sawyer
Cc: arin-discuss at arin.net
Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] Fwd: [ARIN-Suggestions] New ACSP Suggestion 2014.10: CHANGES TO CANDIDATE SPEECHES


On Jun 5, 2014, at 3:35 PM, "Leif Sawyer" <lsawyer at gci.com<mailto:lsawyer at gci.com>> wrote:

I am opposed to this.

Opposed to video speeches, or election procedure that
say that candidates should speak to their qualifications?

Thanks!
/John

John Curran
President and CEO
ARIN


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From Jawaid.Bazyar at forethought.net  Fri Jun  6 13:08:09 2014
From: Jawaid.Bazyar at forethought.net (Jawaid Bazyar)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2014 11:08:09 -0600
Subject: [arin-discuss] [ARIN-Suggestions] New ACSP Suggestion	2014.10:
 CHANGES TO CANDIDATE SPEECHES
In-Reply-To: <313D04E3-3003-4F9A-923E-FD73E060F629@corp.arin.net>
References: <mailman.8589.1401924873.28847.arin-suggestions@arin.net>	<A5D2B5A2-6814-492C-8372-271600BECFE7@delong.com>	<53914A7E.2010204@burnttofu.net>
	<CFB71E6F.F072C%swm@emanon.com>	<867g4uoy8u.fsf@valhalla.seastrom.com>
	<313D04E3-3003-4F9A-923E-FD73E060F629@corp.arin.net>
Message-ID: <5391F579.6010500@forethought.net>

If a candidate wants to spend some of their time talking up other 
candidates, I fail to see what the problem with that is.

There is a growing trend in our society of  "free speech is whatever we 
agree with and allow you to say". And it's sad to see it here on the 
ARIN list.


On 06/06/2014 09:41 AM, John Curran wrote:
> RS - (presuming that we continue with the present predominantly live 
> candidate speeches) Should candidates be told to briefly state their 
> own qualifications for consideration by the electorate? Or simply told 
> that they've got 3 minutes, and "go for it?" If candidates want 
> endorsers to also speak, should they be able/encouraged to enter them 
> as candidates as well so they get a speaking slot? Thanks! /John John 
> Curran President and CEO ARIN 
> _______________________________________________ ARIN-Discuss You are 
> receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN 
> Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). Unsubscribe or manage 
> your mailing list subscription at: 
> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss Please contact 
> info at arin.net if you experience any issues. 

-- 

Jawaid Bazyar

President

ph 303.815.1814

fax 303.815.1001

Jawaid.Bazyar at foreThought.net <email:Jawaid.Bazyar at foreThought.net>
	<http://www.foreThought.net>
Note our new address: 2347 Curtis St, Denver CO 80205



From ptimmins at clearrate.com  Fri Jun  6 13:13:35 2014
From: ptimmins at clearrate.com (Paul Timmins)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 17:13:35 +0000
Subject: [arin-discuss] [ARIN-Suggestions] New ACSP Suggestion	2014.10:
 CHANGES TO CANDIDATE SPEECHES
In-Reply-To: <5391F579.6010500@forethought.net>
References: <mailman.8589.1401924873.28847.arin-suggestions@arin.net>
	<A5D2B5A2-6814-492C-8372-271600BECFE7@delong.com>
	<53914A7E.2010204@burnttofu.net>	<CFB71E6F.F072C%swm@emanon.com>
	<867g4uoy8u.fsf@valhalla.seastrom.com>
	<313D04E3-3003-4F9A-923E-FD73E060F629@corp.arin.net>,
	<5391F579.6010500@forethought.net>
Message-ID: <8335CAF4177E7A4CBC4670E5F9FA9B4179CEA759@CRC-Exchange02.corp.clearrate.net>

And for me, the whole thing sounds ilke 'I don't like the status quo, and I don't like that they are recommending others who are in a similar vein'

It all comes down to 'I don't trust the electorate to make up their own minds independently, regardless of who or how endorsements occur'. And I find that sickening.

This and the earlier suggestion to impose mandatory term limits makes me wonder what kind of agenda people have that they feel the status quo, aka the majority elected, need to go by any means necessary, and want to stifle them and cripple their ability to communicate, govern, and be elected in any way possible.

And we the sheeple can't be trusted to remove these scourges of society, so we have to make sure the policies do it for us.

-Paul

________________________________________
From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net [arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net] on behalf of Jawaid Bazyar [Jawaid.Bazyar at forethought.net]
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 1:08 PM
To: arin-discuss at arin.net
Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] [ARIN-Suggestions] New ACSP Suggestion      2014.10: CHANGES TO CANDIDATE SPEECHES

If a candidate wants to spend some of their time talking up other
candidates, I fail to see what the problem with that is.

There is a growing trend in our society of  "free speech is whatever we
agree with and allow you to say". And it's sad to see it here on the
ARIN list.




From jcurran at arin.net  Fri Jun  6 13:16:34 2014
From: jcurran at arin.net (John Curran)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 17:16:34 +0000
Subject: [arin-discuss] [ARIN-Suggestions] New ACSP Suggestion 2014.10:
 CHANGES TO CANDIDATE SPEECHES
In-Reply-To: <CAH_b1v6rkQA-LN_z2BFfFsCSvrDk5DH3L2xjPTdmKHdnBfTYWg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.8589.1401924873.28847.arin-suggestions@arin.net>
	<A5D2B5A2-6814-492C-8372-271600BECFE7@delong.com>
	<53914A7E.2010204@burnttofu.net> <CFB71E6F.F072C%swm@emanon.com>
	<867g4uoy8u.fsf@valhalla.seastrom.com>
	<313D04E3-3003-4F9A-923E-FD73E060F629@corp.arin.net>
	<9734000BBB8ABA4F8F6588608FD3CDAD2AFBB5AD@mbx028-e1-va-8.exch028.domain.local>
	<CAH_b1v6rkQA-LN_z2BFfFsCSvrDk5DH3L2xjPTdmKHdnBfTYWg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0E977FCC-A241-4E28-9124-5526434866B5@corp.arin.net>

On Jun 6, 2014, at 12:21 PM, John Brown <john at citylinkfiber.com> wrote:

> Hmm, interesting point.
> 
> To be a candidate to simply create the ability to speak about another
> is not fair to the election and review process.

John -

Is it safe to assume that that's a self-correcting issue,since the community 
can express their feelings about such events occurring via their vote?

/John

John Curran
President and CEO
ARIN



From rs at seastrom.com  Fri Jun  6 13:48:43 2014
From: rs at seastrom.com (Rob Seastrom)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2014 13:48:43 -0400
Subject: [arin-discuss] [ARIN-Suggestions] New ACSP Suggestion	2014.10:
	CHANGES TO CANDIDATE SPEECHES
In-Reply-To: <313D04E3-3003-4F9A-923E-FD73E060F629@corp.arin.net> (John
	Curran's message of "Fri, 6 Jun 2014 15:41:13 +0000")
References: <mailman.8589.1401924873.28847.arin-suggestions@arin.net>
	<A5D2B5A2-6814-492C-8372-271600BECFE7@delong.com>
	<53914A7E.2010204@burnttofu.net> <CFB71E6F.F072C%swm@emanon.com>
	<867g4uoy8u.fsf@valhalla.seastrom.com>
	<313D04E3-3003-4F9A-923E-FD73E060F629@corp.arin.net>
Message-ID: <86vbselyis.fsf@valhalla.seastrom.com>


John Curran <jcurran at arin.net> writes:

> On Jun 6, 2014, at 11:26 AM, Rob Seastrom <rs at seastrom.com> wrote:
>
>>> The process doesn?t appear to be broken.  Just a few individuals and their
>>> use of it.
>> 
>> Actually, I disagree.  I'm opposed to any suggestion that a candidate
>> ought to be restricted from talking about whatever he or she cares to
>> during their stump speech.  The electorate is entirely capable of
>> deciding whether a candidate's remarks are appropriate and acting
>> accordingly.
>
> RS - 
>
> (presuming that we continue with the present predominantly live 
> candidate speeches) 
>
> Should candidates be told to briefly state their own qualifications 
> for consideration by the electorate?  Or simply told that they've 
> got 3 minutes, and "go for it?"

A combination of the two; I don't think we need to insult people's
intelligence by telling them what exactly to put in.  I think that
instructions as brief as "You'll be provided 3 minutes to make an
appropriate campaign statement to the plenary." are sufficient.

> If candidates want endorsers to 
> also speak, should they be able/encouraged to enter them as candidates 
> as well so they get a speaking slot?

Able, yes.  Encouraged, no.  I would be inclined to not vote for
someone who felt the need to pull a stunt like that, and tell my
friends and colleagues to do likewise.  I would also think less
professionally of anyone who would be a party to such activity.

Attempting to come up with an exhaustive list of ways in which people
might try to game this system and preemptively forbid them seems like
an enormous waste of time and energy (and ultimately doomed to failure
due to the creative nature of the Community).

-r



From jcurran at arin.net  Fri Jun  6 14:17:54 2014
From: jcurran at arin.net (John Curran)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 18:17:54 +0000
Subject: [arin-discuss] [ARIN-Suggestions] New ACSP Suggestion 2014.10:
 CHANGES TO CANDIDATE SPEECHES
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1406061210500.11467@mx2.localweb.com>
References: <mailman.8589.1401924873.28847.arin-suggestions@arin.net>
	<A5D2B5A2-6814-492C-8372-271600BECFE7@delong.com>
	<53914A7E.2010204@burnttofu.net> <CFB71E6F.F072C%swm@emanon.com>
	<867g4uoy8u.fsf@valhalla.seastrom.com>
	<313D04E3-3003-4F9A-923E-FD73E060F629@corp.arin.net>
	<9734000BBB8ABA4F8F6588608FD3CDAD2AFBB5AD@mbx028-e1-va-8.exch028.domain.local>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.1406061210500.11467@mx2.localweb.com>
Message-ID: <553C923D-6093-47FB-A16A-3BB4428C33AD@corp.arin.net>

On Jun 6, 2014, at 12:12 PM, A. Michael Salim <msalim at localweb.com> wrote:

> 
> Just curious, is anyone not opposed to the proposed change?  As far as I can tell, we have the following situation:
> 
> In favor: 1
> 
> Opposed: many
> 
> Don't care: many

Mike - 
 
  To be clear, we're discussing this because it was a suggestion to change
  our processes, and while ARIN processes are either in my control (or for
  staff to recommend to the Board for consideration, such as in this case), 
  it's best to consult with the community on such things.  This is why we
  have an ARIN Consultation and Suggestion Process.

  It's also a matter worthy of consideration as a concern about the integrity 
  of ARIN election processes.  We have had several folks express support for
  the suggestion or indicate that the concern is valid enough to warrant a 
  good set of rules.

  I think there's general consensus that anything resembling prior review is
  both more than needed, and poses far more concerns than the problem.  The
  question now is simply what expectations the community has regarding the
  candidate speeches, so that it gets what it expects and candidates know
  what is within reason.

  This is also a timely question, as the election processes for 2014 must
  be put before the Board shortly for approval and staff need to know how
  to answer questions from candidates regarding expectations in this area.

FYI,
/John

John Curran
President and CEO
ARIN



From Jawaid.Bazyar at forethought.net  Fri Jun  6 14:45:53 2014
From: Jawaid.Bazyar at forethought.net (Jawaid Bazyar)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2014 12:45:53 -0600
Subject: [arin-discuss] Fwd: [ARIN-Suggestions] New ACSP Suggestion
 2014.10: CHANGES TO CANDIDATE SPEECHES
In-Reply-To: <CFB71E6F.F072C%swm@emanon.com>
References: <mailman.8589.1401924873.28847.arin-suggestions@arin.net>	<A5D2B5A2-6814-492C-8372-271600BECFE7@delong.com>	<53914A7E.2010204@burnttofu.net>
	<CFB71E6F.F072C%swm@emanon.com>
Message-ID: <53920C61.20509@forethought.net>

Scott,

Give each speaker a specific amount of time (e.g. 3 minutes) and if they 
choose to use that to talk up other people instead of themselves, well, 
it's their time. (Congress does this).

On 06/06/2014 05:34 AM, Scott Morris wrote:
> So I feel that I missed some of the fun along the way.  Exactly how much
> time was spent with these unsolicited endorsements???  I mean, this didn?t
> turn into a filibuster, did it?  If so, there are concepts within Roberts?
> Rules that would assist with that.
>
> But the suggestion as it is written doesn?t seem to be an appropriate
> solution.  If someone wants to talk about off-topic things, no matter how
> detailed the rules, they?ll always find some way to do so.  And if people
> are that put out by it, then the most appropriate action is to simply not
> vote for the people that they like (although that brings about a whole
> reverse-psychology idea too!).
>
> The process doesn?t appear to be broken.  Just a few individuals and their
> use of it.
>
> My two cents, although I wasn?t there?
>
> Scott
>

-- 

Jawaid Bazyar

President

ph 303.815.1814

fax 303.815.1001

Jawaid.Bazyar at foreThought.net <email:Jawaid.Bazyar at foreThought.net>
	<http://www.foreThought.net>
Note our new address: 2347 Curtis St, Denver CO 80205



From michael+ppml at burnttofu.net  Fri Jun  6 14:47:33 2014
From: michael+ppml at burnttofu.net (Michael Sinatra)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2014 11:47:33 -0700
Subject: [arin-discuss] [ARIN-Suggestions] New ACSP Suggestion 2014.10:
 CHANGES TO CANDIDATE SPEECHES
In-Reply-To: <553C923D-6093-47FB-A16A-3BB4428C33AD@corp.arin.net>
References: <mailman.8589.1401924873.28847.arin-suggestions@arin.net>	<A5D2B5A2-6814-492C-8372-271600BECFE7@delong.com>	<53914A7E.2010204@burnttofu.net>
	<CFB71E6F.F072C%swm@emanon.com>	<867g4uoy8u.fsf@valhalla.seastrom.com>	<313D04E3-3003-4F9A-923E-FD73E060F629@corp.arin.net>	<9734000BBB8ABA4F8F6588608FD3CDAD2AFBB5AD@mbx028-e1-va-8.exch028.domain.local>	<Pine.LNX.4.64.1406061210500.11467@mx2.localweb.com>
	<553C923D-6093-47FB-A16A-3BB4428C33AD@corp.arin.net>
Message-ID: <53920CC5.4090508@burnttofu.net>

On 06/06/14 11:17, John Curran wrote:

>   It's also a matter worthy of consideration as a concern about the integrity 
>   of ARIN election processes.

John:

Let me just say that if this suggestion were implemented, or similar
restrictions enacted, it would raise for me grave concerns about the
ARIN election process.  Far from shoring up the integrity of the
process, this suggestion actually undermines it.

There's a practical issue: We need to have extemporaneous candidate
speeches for the same reason it's a good idea to have a face-to-face
interview of a job candidate.  It gives an additional dimension, and a
new angle on the candidate that's important to have beyond just what's
on paper.  How a candidate uses that time tells voters a lot about that
candidate.

If we implement this suggestion, we restrict information about the
candidates from getting to the electorate.  Obviously, the electorate
can't have perfect information, but any democratic process relies on the
electorate having good information about candidates.  Restricting such
information undermines the entire democratic process.

In the past 5 out of 6 election cycles where I have attended the
relevant meeting, I have only seen this issue happen twice.  First,
there is the incident that is currently under attack, and the second
time was when a candidate needed to withdraw his candidacy and wasn't
able to do so prior to the time of the candidate speeches.  Again, I was
happy that the candidate explained that so that we didn't have to waste
votes on him.

In other words, this suggestion doesn't solve a problem, but it creates
plenty of new ones.

michael


From hannigan at gmail.com  Fri Jun  6 15:14:26 2014
From: hannigan at gmail.com (Martin Hannigan)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 15:14:26 -0400
Subject: [arin-discuss] Fwd: [ARIN-Suggestions] New ACSP Suggestion
 2014.10: CHANGES TO CANDIDATE SPEECHES
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1406061210500.11467@mx2.localweb.com>
References: <mailman.8589.1401924873.28847.arin-suggestions@arin.net>
	<A5D2B5A2-6814-492C-8372-271600BECFE7@delong.com>
	<53914A7E.2010204@burnttofu.net> <CFB71E6F.F072C%swm@emanon.com>
	<867g4uoy8u.fsf@valhalla.seastrom.com>
	<313D04E3-3003-4F9A-923E-FD73E060F629@corp.arin.net>
	<9734000BBB8ABA4F8F6588608FD3CDAD2AFBB5AD@mbx028-e1-va-8.exch028.domain.local>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.1406061210500.11467@mx2.localweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAMDXq5MU-80DST4Jw29U+-OJ3eHm46JxDYoQu7WKCP9gJ6ad8w@mail.gmail.com>

Technically 2. I didn't submit the suggestion.

And I'm still in favor. Most of this is based on my insider knowledge as to
how ARIN works and how insidious, bound up and how tightly controlled
elections really are.

I'm not saying that they are crooked. I'm saying most of you don't read the
fine print.

And anyone can put anything on YouTube they want regardless of ARIN. Let
them campaign for each other there. We don't need it.

Best,

Martin

On Friday, June 6, 2014, A. Michael Salim <msalim at localweb.com> wrote:

>
> Just curious, is anyone not opposed to the proposed change?  As far as I
> can tell, we have the following situation:
>
> In favor: 1
>
> Opposed: many
>
> Don't care: many
>
> Mike Salim
>
> ===================================================
> A. Michael Salim, VP and CTO,
> American Data Technology, Inc.,
> P.O. Box 12892,
> Research Triangle Park, NC 27709-2892 USA.
> OFFICE: 800-525-0031
> DIRECT: 919-544-4101 ext. 101
> http://www.localweb.com/   (LocalWeb is a TRADEMARK)
> ===================================================
>
> _______________________________________________
> ARIN-Discuss
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net).
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
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> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
>
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From jcurran at arin.net  Fri Jun  6 15:18:11 2014
From: jcurran at arin.net (John Curran)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 19:18:11 +0000
Subject: [arin-discuss] [ARIN-Suggestions] New ACSP Suggestion 2014.10:
 CHANGES TO CANDIDATE SPEECHES
In-Reply-To: <53920CC5.4090508@burnttofu.net>
References: <mailman.8589.1401924873.28847.arin-suggestions@arin.net>
	<A5D2B5A2-6814-492C-8372-271600BECFE7@delong.com>
	<53914A7E.2010204@burnttofu.net> <CFB71E6F.F072C%swm@emanon.com>
	<867g4uoy8u.fsf@valhalla.seastrom.com>
	<313D04E3-3003-4F9A-923E-FD73E060F629@corp.arin.net>
	<9734000BBB8ABA4F8F6588608FD3CDAD2AFBB5AD@mbx028-e1-va-8.exch028.domain.local>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.1406061210500.11467@mx2.localweb.com>
	<553C923D-6093-47FB-A16A-3BB4428C33AD@corp.arin.net>,
	<53920CC5.4090508@burnttofu.net>
Message-ID: <E5BFC8B7-89DE-49B8-A0DD-7537E16CDD94@arin.net>

On Jun 6, 2014, at 2:47 PM, "Michael Sinatra" <michael+ppml at burnttofu.net> wrote:
> 
>> On 06/06/14 11:17, John Curran wrote:
>> 
>>  It's also a matter worthy of consideration as a concern about the integrity 
>>  of ARIN election processes.
> 
> John:
> 
> Let me just say that if this suggestion were implemented, or similar
> restrictions enacted, it would raise for me grave concerns about the
> ARIN election process.  Far from shoring up the integrity of the
> process, this suggestion actually undermines it.
> 
> There's a practical issue: We need to have extemporaneous candidate
> speeches for the same reason it's a good idea to have a face-to-face
> interview of a job candidate.  It gives an additional dimension, and a
> new angle on the candidate that's important to have beyond just what's
> on paper.  How a candidate uses that time tells voters a lot about that
> candidate.
> 
> If we implement this suggestion, we restrict information about the
> candidates from getting to the electorate.  Obviously, the electorate
> can't have perfect information, but any democratic process relies on the
> electorate having good information about candidates.  Restricting such
> information undermines the entire democratic process.
> 
> In the past 5 out of 6 election cycles where I have attended the
> relevant meeting, I have only seen this issue happen twice.  First,
> there is the incident that is currently under attack, and the second
> time was when a candidate needed to withdraw his candidacy and wasn't
> able to do so prior to the time of the candidate speeches.  Again, I was
> happy that the candidate explained that so that we didn't have to waste
> votes on him.
> 
> In other words, this suggestion doesn't solve a problem, but it creates
> plenty of new ones.

Yes, that is the present consensus; the reason for the discussion 
is to make sure that any concerns with the process get properly
aired, it does not mean the change must be made.

Now, with respect to guidance given to candidates, do we provide
any at all, or leave it to their judgement?   Several have indicated
that live speeches are important, but candidates should be told it
the speech is about their reason for running, qualifications, etc.  

Thoughts?
/John

John Curran
President and CEO
ARIN
 

From jcurran at arin.net  Fri Jun  6 15:36:16 2014
From: jcurran at arin.net (John Curran)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 19:36:16 +0000
Subject: [arin-discuss] Fwd: [ARIN-Suggestions] New ACSP Suggestion
 2014.10: CHANGES TO CANDIDATE SPEECHES
In-Reply-To: <CAMDXq5MU-80DST4Jw29U+-OJ3eHm46JxDYoQu7WKCP9gJ6ad8w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.8589.1401924873.28847.arin-suggestions@arin.net>
	<A5D2B5A2-6814-492C-8372-271600BECFE7@delong.com>
	<53914A7E.2010204@burnttofu.net> <CFB71E6F.F072C%swm@emanon.com>
	<867g4uoy8u.fsf@valhalla.seastrom.com>
	<313D04E3-3003-4F9A-923E-FD73E060F629@corp.arin.net>
	<9734000BBB8ABA4F8F6588608FD3CDAD2AFBB5AD@mbx028-e1-va-8.exch028.domain.local>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.1406061210500.11467@mx2.localweb.com>,
	<CAMDXq5MU-80DST4Jw29U+-OJ3eHm46JxDYoQu7WKCP9gJ6ad8w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FA1146BC-60B8-4106-8294-BC84B05FA276@arin.net>

On Jun 6, 2014, at 3:14 PM, "Martin Hannigan" <hannigan at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> And I'm still in favor. Most of this is based on my insider knowledge as to how ARIN works and how insidious, bound up and how tightly controlled elections really are. 
> 
> I'm not saying that they are crooked. I'm saying most of you don't read the fine print. 

Martin -

     I actually have a bit of knowledge how they work as well, but
     do not 

From swm at emanon.com  Fri Jun  6 15:36:40 2014
From: swm at emanon.com (Scott Morris)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 15:36:40 -0400
Subject: [arin-discuss] [ARIN-Suggestions] New ACSP Suggestion 2014.10:
 CHANGES TO CANDIDATE SPEECHES
In-Reply-To: <CAH_b1v6rkQA-LN_z2BFfFsCSvrDk5DH3L2xjPTdmKHdnBfTYWg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.8589.1401924873.28847.arin-suggestions@arin.net>
	<A5D2B5A2-6814-492C-8372-271600BECFE7@delong.com>
	<53914A7E.2010204@burnttofu.net> <CFB71E6F.F072C%swm@emanon.com>
	<867g4uoy8u.fsf@valhalla.seastrom.com>
	<313D04E3-3003-4F9A-923E-FD73E060F629@corp.arin.net>
	<9734000BBB8ABA4F8F6588608FD3CDAD2AFBB5AD@mbx028-e1-va-8.exch028.domain.local>
	<CAH_b1v6rkQA-LN_z2BFfFsCSvrDk5DH3L2xjPTdmKHdnBfTYWg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CFB78FE5.F082E%swm@emanon.com>


>Hmm, interesting point.
>
>To be a candidate to simply create the ability to speak about another
>is not fair to the election and review process.
>
>
>Having a time controlled "open mike" for the general membership to
>express a statement is not a bad idea.
>
>I remember, that there used to be  (could still be) a way for people
>to post written statements about a candidate.

And how would that end up being different than a candidate/board member
being able to talk about someone?  As soon as you give someone a voice,
whether it be physical or virtual, you have to be prepared for what they
may say.

If it doesn?t deter from anything, or cause serious problems with
anything, then who cares?  If you don?t want it to occur, then don?t give
them a voice.  In which case we?ll all vote in the dark pretending to be
clueful about who the people are or what they stand for.  (e.g. Not
helpful either)

I have no problem letting people say whatever is on their mind.  Just give
them a set timeframe in which to do it so that worst case scenario, I know
how long I have to tune out for.

Keep It Simple ?

Scott


>




From swm at emanon.com  Fri Jun  6 15:38:20 2014
From: swm at emanon.com (Scott Morris)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 15:38:20 -0400
Subject: [arin-discuss] Fwd: [ARIN-Suggestions] New ACSP Suggestion
 2014.10: CHANGES TO CANDIDATE SPEECHES
In-Reply-To: <53920C61.20509@forethought.net>
References: <mailman.8589.1401924873.28847.arin-suggestions@arin.net>
	<A5D2B5A2-6814-492C-8372-271600BECFE7@delong.com>
	<53914A7E.2010204@burnttofu.net> <CFB71E6F.F072C%swm@emanon.com>
	<53920C61.20509@forethought.net>
Message-ID: <CFB790D9.F0839%swm@emanon.com>

I would ABSOLUTELY agree with and support that.  (as noted in my last
e-mail!)   ;)

Scott


-----Original Message-----
From: Jawaid Bazyar <Jawaid.Bazyar at forethought.net>
Date: Friday, June 6, 2014 at 2:45 PM
To: <arin-discuss at arin.net>
Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] Fwd: [ARIN-Suggestions] New ACSP Suggestion
2014.10: CHANGES TO CANDIDATE SPEECHES

>Scott,
>
>Give each speaker a specific amount of time (e.g. 3 minutes) and if they
>choose to use that to talk up other people instead of themselves, well,
>it's their time. (Congress does this).
>
>On 06/06/2014 05:34 AM, Scott Morris wrote:
>> So I feel that I missed some of the fun along the way.  Exactly how much
>> time was spent with these unsolicited endorsements???  I mean, this
>>didn?t
>> turn into a filibuster, did it?  If so, there are concepts within
>>Roberts?
>> Rules that would assist with that.
>>
>> But the suggestion as it is written doesn?t seem to be an appropriate
>> solution.  If someone wants to talk about off-topic things, no matter
>>how
>> detailed the rules, they?ll always find some way to do so.  And if
>>people
>> are that put out by it, then the most appropriate action is to simply
>>not
>> vote for the people that they like (although that brings about a whole
>> reverse-psychology idea too!).
>>
>> The process doesn?t appear to be broken.  Just a few individuals and
>>their
>> use of it.
>>
>> My two cents, although I wasn?t there?
>>
>> Scott
>>
>
>-- 
>
>Jawaid Bazyar
>
>President
>
>ph 303.815.1814
>
>fax 303.815.1001
>
>Jawaid.Bazyar at foreThought.net <email:Jawaid.Bazyar at foreThought.net>
>	<http://www.foreThought.net>
>Note our new address: 2347 Curtis St, Denver CO 80205
>
>_______________________________________________
>ARIN-Discuss
>You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
>the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net).
>Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
>http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss
>Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.




From jcurran at arin.net  Fri Jun  6 15:44:34 2014
From: jcurran at arin.net (John Curran)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 19:44:34 +0000
Subject: [arin-discuss] Fwd: [ARIN-Suggestions] New ACSP Suggestion
 2014.10: CHANGES TO CANDIDATE SPEECHES
In-Reply-To: <CAMDXq5MU-80DST4Jw29U+-OJ3eHm46JxDYoQu7WKCP9gJ6ad8w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.8589.1401924873.28847.arin-suggestions@arin.net>
	<A5D2B5A2-6814-492C-8372-271600BECFE7@delong.com>
	<53914A7E.2010204@burnttofu.net> <CFB71E6F.F072C%swm@emanon.com>
	<867g4uoy8u.fsf@valhalla.seastrom.com>
	<313D04E3-3003-4F9A-923E-FD73E060F629@corp.arin.net>
	<9734000BBB8ABA4F8F6588608FD3CDAD2AFBB5AD@mbx028-e1-va-8.exch028.domain.local>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.1406061210500.11467@mx2.localweb.com>,
	<CAMDXq5MU-80DST4Jw29U+-OJ3eHm46JxDYoQu7WKCP9gJ6ad8w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6B07B5AA-097D-470A-BBA9-776EE054FEC5@arin.net>

> On Jun 6, 2014, at 3:14 PM, "Martin Hannigan" <hannigan at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> And I'm still in favor. Most of this is based on my insider knowledge as to how ARIN works and how insidious, bound up and how tightly controlled elections really are. 
> 
> I'm not saying that they are crooked. I'm saying most of you don't read the fine print.

Martin -

    I actually have a bit of knowledge how it works as well, but
    do not know what your "insidious, bound up" reference is about...

    In any case, if you happen to have some suggestions for potential
    election improvements, feel free to submit them as well.  They also 
    will get put out on this list and enjoy community discussion 
     (I do not know if that process is too insidious for you, but it is 
      what we have to work with...)

Thanks!
/John

John Curran
President and CEO
ARIN

From hannigan at gmail.com  Fri Jun  6 15:48:57 2014
From: hannigan at gmail.com (Martin Hannigan)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 15:48:57 -0400
Subject: [arin-discuss] Fwd: [ARIN-Suggestions] New ACSP Suggestion
	2014.10: CHANGES TO CANDIDATE SPEECHES
In-Reply-To: <6B07B5AA-097D-470A-BBA9-776EE054FEC5@arin.net>
References: <mailman.8589.1401924873.28847.arin-suggestions@arin.net>
	<A5D2B5A2-6814-492C-8372-271600BECFE7@delong.com>
	<53914A7E.2010204@burnttofu.net> <CFB71E6F.F072C%swm@emanon.com>
	<867g4uoy8u.fsf@valhalla.seastrom.com>
	<313D04E3-3003-4F9A-923E-FD73E060F629@corp.arin.net>
	<9734000BBB8ABA4F8F6588608FD3CDAD2AFBB5AD@mbx028-e1-va-8.exch028.domain.local>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.1406061210500.11467@mx2.localweb.com>
	<CAMDXq5MU-80DST4Jw29U+-OJ3eHm46JxDYoQu7WKCP9gJ6ad8w@mail.gmail.com>
	<6B07B5AA-097D-470A-BBA9-776EE054FEC5@arin.net>
Message-ID: <64E875F1-89C2-4B2B-B528-C5AA07C164BE@gmail.com>


Term limits. But that is going nowhere and it received member support. 

Best, 

Martin 

On Jun 6, 2014, at 15:44, John Curran <jcurran at arin.net> wrote:

>> On Jun 6, 2014, at 3:14 PM, "Martin Hannigan" <hannigan at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> And I'm still in favor. Most of this is based on my insider knowledge as to how ARIN works and how insidious, bound up and how tightly controlled elections really are. 
>> 
>> I'm not saying that they are crooked. I'm saying most of you don't read the fine print.
> 
> Martin -
> 
>    I actually have a bit of knowledge how it works as well, but
>    do not know what your "insidious, bound up" reference is about...
> 
>    In any case, if you happen to have some suggestions for potential
>    election improvements, feel free to submit them as well.  They also 
>    will get put out on this list and enjoy community discussion 
>     (I do not know if that process is too insidious for you, but it is 
>      what we have to work with...)
> 
> Thanks!
> /John
> 
> John Curran
> President and CEO
> ARIN


From drechsau at Geeks.ORG  Fri Jun  6 16:53:26 2014
From: drechsau at Geeks.ORG (Mike Horwath)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 15:53:26 -0500
Subject: [arin-discuss] Fwd: [ARIN-Suggestions] New ACSP Suggestion
 2014.10: CHANGES TO CANDIDATE SPEECHES
In-Reply-To: <64E875F1-89C2-4B2B-B528-C5AA07C164BE@gmail.com>
References: <A5D2B5A2-6814-492C-8372-271600BECFE7@delong.com>
	<53914A7E.2010204@burnttofu.net> <CFB71E6F.F072C%swm@emanon.com>
	<867g4uoy8u.fsf@valhalla.seastrom.com>
	<313D04E3-3003-4F9A-923E-FD73E060F629@corp.arin.net>
	<9734000BBB8ABA4F8F6588608FD3CDAD2AFBB5AD@mbx028-e1-va-8.exch028.domain.local>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.1406061210500.11467@mx2.localweb.com>
	<CAMDXq5MU-80DST4Jw29U+-OJ3eHm46JxDYoQu7WKCP9gJ6ad8w@mail.gmail.com>
	<6B07B5AA-097D-470A-BBA9-776EE054FEC5@arin.net>
	<64E875F1-89C2-4B2B-B528-C5AA07C164BE@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20140606205326.GB80155@Geeks.ORG>

On Fri, Jun 06, 2014 at 03:48:57PM -0400, Martin Hannigan wrote:
> 
> Term limits. But that is going nowhere and it received member support. 

That'd be awesome.

-- 
Mike Horwath, reachable via drechsau at Geeks.ORG


From michael+ppml at burnttofu.net  Fri Jun  6 16:59:57 2014
From: michael+ppml at burnttofu.net (Michael Sinatra)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2014 13:59:57 -0700
Subject: [arin-discuss] Fwd: [ARIN-Suggestions] New ACSP Suggestion
 2014.10: CHANGES TO CANDIDATE SPEECHES
In-Reply-To: <64E875F1-89C2-4B2B-B528-C5AA07C164BE@gmail.com>
References: <mailman.8589.1401924873.28847.arin-suggestions@arin.net>	<A5D2B5A2-6814-492C-8372-271600BECFE7@delong.com>	<53914A7E.2010204@burnttofu.net>
	<CFB71E6F.F072C%swm@emanon.com>	<867g4uoy8u.fsf@valhalla.seastrom.com>	<313D04E3-3003-4F9A-923E-FD73E060F629@corp.arin.net>	<9734000BBB8ABA4F8F6588608FD3CDAD2AFBB5AD@mbx028-e1-va-8.exch028.domain.local>	<Pine.LNX.4.64.1406061210500.11467@mx2.localweb.com>	<CAMDXq5MU-80DST4Jw29U+-OJ3eHm46JxDYoQu7WKCP9gJ6ad8w@mail.gmail.com>	<6B07B5AA-097D-470A-BBA9-776EE054FEC5@arin.net>
	<64E875F1-89C2-4B2B-B528-C5AA07C164BE@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <53922BCD.7010209@burnttofu.net>

On 06/06/2014 12:48, Martin Hannigan wrote:
> 
> Term limits. But that is going nowhere and it received member
> support.

It also received member opposition.  I suppose we could do a formal
vote, though.  Or people could just read through the thread on -discuss
about 1-2 months ago.

I am opposed to term limits, because they also limit the democratic
process.  But I support one of Randy Bush's other suggestions:
That the Governance Committee be composed of people outside of the ARIN
AC and board.  One possibility would be to have the other RIRs and/or
*NOGs nominate members of the committee, but I am open to suggestions as
to how to get outside blood onto the committee.


michael


From paul at mcpinc.com  Fri Jun  6 17:54:52 2014
From: paul at mcpinc.com (Paul Marchese)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 17:54:52 -0400
Subject: [arin-discuss] Fwd: [ARIN-Suggestions] New ACSP Suggestion
	2014.10: CHANGES TO CANDIDATE SPEECHES
In-Reply-To: <53922BCD.7010209@burnttofu.net>
References: <mailman.8589.1401924873.28847.arin-suggestions@arin.net>	<A5D2B5A2-6814-492C-8372-271600BECFE7@delong.com>	<53914A7E.2010204@burnttofu.net>	<CFB71E6F.F072C%swm@emanon.com>	<867g4uoy8u.fsf@valhalla.seastrom.com>	<313D04E3-3003-4F9A-923E-FD73E060F629@corp.arin.net>	<9734000BBB8ABA4F8F6588608FD3CDAD2AFBB5AD@mbx028-e1-va-8.exch028.domain.local>	<Pine.LNX.4.64.1406061210500.11467@mx2.localweb.com>	<CAMDXq5MU-80DST4Jw29U+-OJ3eHm46JxDYoQu7WKCP9gJ6ad8w@mail.gmail.com>	<6B07B5AA-097D-470A-BBA9-776EE054FEC5@arin.net>	<64E875F1-89C2-4B2B-B528-C5AA07C164BE@gmail.com>
	<53922BCD.7010209@burnttofu.net>
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAAIwc6FYsytdKtw8GOxHfDqYBAKgwHciDEURJrSjtUKJ//xUAAAAAhbkAABAAAACLD6HAY+l/Q7hDbtyHDHGCAQAAAAA=@mcpinc.com>

Opposed to term limits?

This certainly supports a true democratic process or would we all be better
with the congress setup, in for life.......do nothing....get nothing
done.......

Paul Marchese, CNE 
Leadership Genesee Class of 2003
Marchese Computer Products, Inc.
"Western New Yorks Oldest Computer Reseller"
paul at mcpinc.com
585-343-2713 phone
585-300-7058 cell

The information contained in this E-mail and any attachments is intended
only for the use of the address indicated above, and is confidential. This
information may also be legally privileged. If you are not the intended
recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, review or use of
the information contained herein is strictly prohibited. You may not copy,
forward, disclose or use any part of this information. If you have received
this information in error, please delete it and all copies from your system
and notify the sender immediately by return email.


-----Original Message-----
From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net]
On Behalf Of Michael Sinatra
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 5:00 PM
To: List
Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] Fwd: [ARIN-Suggestions] New ACSP Suggestion
2014.10: CHANGES TO CANDIDATE SPEECHES

On 06/06/2014 12:48, Martin Hannigan wrote:
> 
> Term limits. But that is going nowhere and it received member support.

It also received member opposition.  I suppose we could do a formal vote,
though.  Or people could just read through the thread on -discuss about 1-2
months ago.

I am opposed to term limits, because they also limit the democratic process.
But I support one of Randy Bush's other suggestions:
That the Governance Committee be composed of people outside of the ARIN AC
and board.  One possibility would be to have the other RIRs and/or *NOGs
nominate members of the committee, but I am open to suggestions as to how to
get outside blood onto the committee.


michael
_______________________________________________
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From lsawyer at gci.com  Fri Jun  6 18:06:15 2014
From: lsawyer at gci.com (Leif Sawyer)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 14:06:15 -0800
Subject: [arin-discuss] Fwd: [ARIN-Suggestions] New ACSP
	Suggestion	2014.10: CHANGES TO CANDIDATE SPEECHES
In-Reply-To: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAAIwc6FYsytdKtw8GOxHfDqYBAKgwHciDEURJrSjtUKJ//xUAAAAAhbkAABAAAACLD6HAY+l/Q7hDbtyHDHGCAQAAAAA=@mcpinc.com>
References: <mailman.8589.1401924873.28847.arin-suggestions@arin.net>
	<A5D2B5A2-6814-492C-8372-271600BECFE7@delong.com>
	<53914A7E.2010204@burnttofu.net>	<CFB71E6F.F072C%swm@emanon.com>
	<867g4uoy8u.fsf@valhalla.seastrom.com>
	<313D04E3-3003-4F9A-923E-FD73E060F629@corp.arin.net>
	<9734000BBB8ABA4F8F6588608FD3CDAD2AFBB5AD@mbx028-e1-va-8.exch028.domain.local>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.1406061210500.11467@mx2.localweb.com>
	<CAMDXq5MU-80DST4Jw29U+-OJ3eHm46JxDYoQu7WKCP9gJ6ad8w@mail.gmail.com>
	<6B07B5AA-097D-470A-BBA9-776EE054FEC5@arin.net>
	<64E875F1-89C2-4B2B-B528-C5AA07C164BE@gmail.com>
	<53922BCD.7010209@burnttofu.net>
	<!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAAIwc6FYsytdKtw8GOxHfDqYBAKgwHciDEURJrSjtUKJ//xUAAAAAhbkAABAAAACLD6HAY+l/Q7hDbtyHDHGCAQAAAAA=@mcpinc.com>
Message-ID: <18B2C6E38A3A324986B392B2D18ABC5102C9461557@fnb1mbx01.gci.com>

And yet there does not seem to be a large influx of monies levied at the voting
public in order to maintain specific candidates in their positions. 

As we've seen already this year, people _do_  vacate the council outside of the
normal three-year term.  So now there is an increased chance to elect somebody
with a position more closely aligned with your ideals.

Since this isn't a representative democracy, everybody's vote does count, and
you can certainly attempt to sway others toward your position and vote en-bloc
for your favorites.

Or attempt next year, when the next cycle-of-people are aging out of their
3-year-term.  Or the next...  ad infinitum.


-1 against term limits (unnecessary, overly impacting)



-----Original Message-----
From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of Paul Marchese
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 1:55 PM
To: 'Michael Sinatra'; 'List'
Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] Fwd: [ARIN-Suggestions] New ACSP Suggestion 2014.10: CHANGES TO CANDIDATE SPEECHES

Opposed to term limits?

This certainly supports a true democratic process or would we all be better with the congress setup, in for life.......do nothing....get nothing done.......

Paul Marchese, CNE
Leadership Genesee Class of 2003
Marchese Computer Products, Inc.
"Western New Yorks Oldest Computer Reseller"
paul at mcpinc.com
585-343-2713 phone
585-300-7058 cell

The information contained in this E-mail and any attachments is intended only for the use of the address indicated above, and is confidential. This information may also be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, review or use of the information contained herein is strictly prohibited. You may not copy, forward, disclose or use any part of this information. If you have received this information in error, please delete it and all copies from your system and notify the sender immediately by return email.


-----Original Message-----
From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net]
On Behalf Of Michael Sinatra
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 5:00 PM
To: List
Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] Fwd: [ARIN-Suggestions] New ACSP Suggestion
2014.10: CHANGES TO CANDIDATE SPEECHES

On 06/06/2014 12:48, Martin Hannigan wrote:
> 
> Term limits. But that is going nowhere and it received member support.

It also received member opposition.  I suppose we could do a formal vote, though.  Or people could just read through the thread on -discuss about 1-2 months ago.

I am opposed to term limits, because they also limit the democratic process.
But I support one of Randy Bush's other suggestions:
That the Governance Committee be composed of people outside of the ARIN AC and board.  One possibility would be to have the other RIRs and/or *NOGs nominate members of the committee, but I am open to suggestions as to how to get outside blood onto the committee.


michael
_______________________________________________
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_______________________________________________
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From jesse at la-broadband.com  Fri Jun  6 20:12:38 2014
From: jesse at la-broadband.com (Jesse Geddis)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 17:12:38 -0700
Subject: [arin-discuss] Fwd: [ARIN-Suggestions] New ACSP
	Suggestion	2014.10: CHANGES TO CANDIDATE SPEECHES
In-Reply-To: <18B2C6E38A3A324986B392B2D18ABC5102C9461557@fnb1mbx01.gci.com>
References: <mailman.8589.1401924873.28847.arin-suggestions@arin.net>
	<A5D2B5A2-6814-492C-8372-271600BECFE7@delong.com>
	<53914A7E.2010204@burnttofu.net> <CFB71E6F.F072C%swm@emanon.com>
	<867g4uoy8u.fsf@valhalla.seastrom.com>
	<313D04E3-3003-4F9A-923E-FD73E060F629@corp.arin.net>
	<9734000BBB8ABA4F8F6588608FD3CDAD2AFBB5AD@mbx028-e1-va-8.exch028.domain.local>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.1406061210500.11467@mx2.localweb.com>
	<CAMDXq5MU-80DST4Jw29U+-OJ3eHm46JxDYoQu7WKCP9gJ6ad8w@mail.gmail.com>
	<6B07B5AA-097D-470A-BBA9-776EE054FEC5@arin.net>
	<64E875F1-89C2-4B2B-B528-C5AA07C164BE@gmail.com>
	<53922BCD.7010209@burnttofu.net>
	<!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAAIwc6FYsytdKtw8GOxHfDqYBAKgwHciDEURJrSjtUKJ//xUAAAAAhbkAABAAAACLD6HAY+l/Q7hDbtyHDHGCAQAAAAA=@mcpinc.com>
	<18B2C6E38A3A324986B392B2D18ABC5102C9461557@fnb1mbx01.gci.com>
Message-ID: <86F9E8E8-A6D7-453D-B482-D2A0F3E2EEBC@la-broadband.com>

Leif,

I think you're missing the point on that topic. You may want to review the archives as I (and I'm sure many others) would hate to see a 2 month long, high traffic, debate revived over an email lacking any new points or information. 

Jesse Geddis
LA Broadband LLC

> On Jun 6, 2014, at 3:06 PM, Leif Sawyer <lsawyer at gci.com> wrote:
> 
> And yet there does not seem to be a large influx of monies levied at the voting
> public in order to maintain specific candidates in their positions. 
> 
> As we've seen already this year, people _do_  vacate the council outside of the
> normal three-year term.  So now there is an increased chance to elect somebody
> with a position more closely aligned with your ideals.
> 
> Since this isn't a representative democracy, everybody's vote does count, and
> you can certainly attempt to sway others toward your position and vote en-bloc
> for your favorites.
> 
> Or attempt next year, when the next cycle-of-people are aging out of their
> 3-year-term.  Or the next...  ad infinitum.
> 
> 
> -1 against term limits (unnecessary, overly impacting)
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of Paul Marchese
> Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 1:55 PM
> To: 'Michael Sinatra'; 'List'
> Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] Fwd: [ARIN-Suggestions] New ACSP Suggestion 2014.10: CHANGES TO CANDIDATE SPEECHES
> 
> Opposed to term limits?
> 
> This certainly supports a true democratic process or would we all be better with the congress setup, in for life.......do nothing....get nothing done.......
> 
> Paul Marchese, CNE
> Leadership Genesee Class of 2003
> Marchese Computer Products, Inc.
> "Western New Yorks Oldest Computer Reseller"
> paul at mcpinc.com
> 585-343-2713 phone
> 585-300-7058 cell
> 
> The information contained in this E-mail and any attachments is intended only for the use of the address indicated above, and is confidential. This information may also be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, review or use of the information contained herein is strictly prohibited. You may not copy, forward, disclose or use any part of this information. If you have received this information in error, please delete it and all copies from your system and notify the sender immediately by return email.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net]
> On Behalf Of Michael Sinatra
> Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 5:00 PM
> To: List
> Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] Fwd: [ARIN-Suggestions] New ACSP Suggestion
> 2014.10: CHANGES TO CANDIDATE SPEECHES
> 
>> On 06/06/2014 12:48, Martin Hannigan wrote:
>> 
>> Term limits. But that is going nowhere and it received member support.
> 
> It also received member opposition.  I suppose we could do a formal vote, though.  Or people could just read through the thread on -discuss about 1-2 months ago.
> 
> I am opposed to term limits, because they also limit the democratic process.
> But I support one of Randy Bush's other suggestions:
> That the Governance Committee be composed of people outside of the ARIN AC and board.  One possibility would be to have the other RIRs and/or *NOGs nominate members of the committee, but I am open to suggestions as to how to get outside blood onto the committee.
> 
> 
> michael
> _______________________________________________
> ARIN-Discuss
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> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
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> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ARIN-Discuss
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> 
> _______________________________________________
> ARIN-Discuss
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