From woody at pch.net Sat Jan 12 22:04:34 2013 From: woody at pch.net (Bill Woodcock) Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 19:04:34 -0800 Subject: [arin-discuss] De-funding the ITU (Apologies for overlap with the NANOG list) Message-ID: <3C4B8E41-F6A8-47E9-BB21-680E5A64CF18@pch.net> Please consider signing this petition: http://DeFundTheITU.org ?so we can stop paying for both sides of this idiotic fight. Note that if the U.S. pulls its funding from the ITU, that's 10%, and if all of the countries that stood with us at the WCIT do so, that would be 74% of the ITU's member revenue. Those of us who support the Internet are paying for three-quarters of the fight against the Internet. As Smokey the Bear would say, only WE can prevent stupidity. As Pogo Possum said, "We have met the enemy, and the enemy is us!" Time to correct that. Redirect $11M/year from the ITU to Internet governance organizations like the IETF. -Bill -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 841 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: From mark at visuallink.com Sun Jan 13 05:33:29 2013 From: mark at visuallink.com (Mark Bayliss) Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 05:33:29 -0500 Subject: [arin-discuss] De-funding the ITU (Apologies for overlap with the NANOG list) In-Reply-To: <3C4B8E41-F6A8-47E9-BB21-680E5A64CF18@pch.net> References: <3C4B8E41-F6A8-47E9-BB21-680E5A64CF18@pch.net> Message-ID: <20130113104128.39298213656@smtp2.arin.net> Bill, Great point and Idea. I am on board. Mark At 10:04 PM 1/12/2013, Bill Woodcock wrote: >Content-Type: multipart/signed; > boundary="Apple-Mail=_F3C705CF-8EA8-4A2B-969A-D7E19C1AB2B9"; > protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha256 >Content-Transfer-Encoding: > > >Please consider signing this petition: > >http://DeFundTheITU.org > > so we can stop paying for both sides of this >idiotic fight. Note that if the U.S. pulls its >funding from the ITU, that's 10%, and if all of >the countries that stood with us at the WCIT do >so, that would be 74% of the ITU's member >revenue. Those of us who support the Internet >are paying for three-quarters of the fight >against the Internet. As Smokey the Bear would >say, only WE can prevent stupidity. As Pogo >Possum said, "We have met the enemy, and the >enemy is us!" Time to correct that. Redirect >$11M/year from the ITU to Internet governance organizations like the IETF. > > -Bill > > > > >======= >Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. >(Email Guard: 9.0.0.2308, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.20960) >http://www.pctools.com/ >======= > > >_______________________________________________ >ARIN-Discuss >You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to >the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). >Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss >Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. > > > >======= >Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. >(Email Guard: 9.0.0.2308, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.20960) >http://www.pctools.com/ >======= ======= Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 9.0.0.2308, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.20960) http://www.pctools.com/ ======= From info at arin.net Tue Jan 15 11:08:01 2013 From: info at arin.net (ARIN) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 11:08:01 -0500 Subject: [arin-discuss] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility for ARIN Member Organizations Message-ID: <50F57EE1.5050201@arin.net> ARIN is seeking feedback from its membership about changing voting eligibility so that any ARIN web account linked to an Admin and/or Tech POC of a Member organization may cast the ballot for the organization's one vote in ARIN elections. This change would replace the Designated Member Representative (DMR) role in the ARIN elections and allow organizations to have more that one eligible voter. There is no change to the one vote per Organization ID rule. We are suggesting this change in order to increase participation in ARIN elections. This change would: * Allow organizations to have more than one eligible voter, thereby increasing the chances that someone would be available to cast a ballot * Eliminate the need for Members to create and update the DMR POC with its specialized email requirements Note: The benefit of allowing more than one individual the ability to cast the organization's one vote may in some cases require internal coordination to determine who will cast the vote. If a second individual attempts to vote, they will receive notification that their organization has already voted and they will not be able to cast a ballot. ARIN is seeking input from the community regarding this potential change, including whether it would be beneficial and if made, whether voting eligibility should be provided to Admin POCs or Admin and Tech POCs. You can read background on ARIN's existing processes of DMRs at: https://www.arin.net/about_us/membership/dmr.html You can read about ARIN's current Board and Advisory Council Election voting process at: https://www.arin.net/participate/elections/elec_procedures.html#voting Relevant Statistics: 89% of ARIN Members currently have a web account linked to either their Admin or Tech POC handle. 85% of ARIN Members currently have a web account linked to their Admin POC handle. In the 2012 elections 87% of Member organizations had a DMR that was eligible to vote. Please provide comments to arin-discuss at arin.net. Discussion will close on 12 February 2013. ARIN seeks clear direction from its members, so your feedback is important. If you have any questions, please contact us at info at arin.net. Regards, Communications and Member Services American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN) From owen at delong.com Tue Jan 15 13:49:48 2013 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 10:49:48 -0800 Subject: [arin-discuss] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility for ARIN Member Organizations In-Reply-To: <50F57EE1.5050201@arin.net> References: <50F57EE1.5050201@arin.net> Message-ID: <1EF681E8-40C4-4F43-B21D-B67F613A6FBB@delong.com> I oppose the change. It would create ambiguity and a race condition where an organization would have to apply additional management constraints on who was a designated POC in order to prevent the possibility of vote tampering. I would support allowing the admin contact to radio-button the DMR in the ARIN-ONLINE interface. Owen On Jan 15, 2013, at 8:08 AM, ARIN wrote: > ARIN is seeking feedback from its membership about changing voting > eligibility so that any ARIN web account linked to an Admin and/or Tech > POC of a Member organization may cast the ballot for the organization's > one vote in ARIN elections. This change would replace the Designated > Member Representative (DMR) role in the ARIN elections and allow > organizations to have more that one eligible voter. There is no change > to the one vote per Organization ID rule. > We are suggesting this change in order to increase participation in ARIN > elections. This change would: > > * Allow organizations to have more than one eligible voter, thereby > increasing the chances that someone would be available to cast a ballot > > * Eliminate the need for Members to create and update the DMR POC > with its specialized email requirements > > Note: The benefit of allowing more than one individual the ability > to cast the organization's one vote may in some cases require internal > coordination to determine who will cast the vote. If a second individual > attempts to vote, they will receive notification that their organization > has already voted and they will not be able to cast a ballot. > > ARIN is seeking input from the community regarding this potential > change, including whether it would be beneficial and if made, whether > voting eligibility should be provided to Admin POCs or Admin and Tech POCs. > You can read background on ARIN's existing processes of DMRs at: > > https://www.arin.net/about_us/membership/dmr.html > > You can read about ARIN's current Board and Advisory Council Election > voting process at: > > https://www.arin.net/participate/elections/elec_procedures.html#voting > > Relevant Statistics: > > 89% of ARIN Members currently have a web account linked to either > their Admin or Tech POC handle. > > 85% of ARIN Members currently have a web account linked to their > Admin POC handle. > > In the 2012 elections 87% of Member organizations had a DMR that > was eligible to vote. > > Please provide comments to arin-discuss at arin.net. > > Discussion will close on 12 February 2013. ARIN seeks clear direction > from its members, so your feedback is important. If you have any > questions, please contact us at info at arin.net. > > Regards, > > Communications and Member Services > American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN) > > _______________________________________________ > ARIN-Discuss > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to > the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss > Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. From bob at FiberInternetCenter.com Tue Jan 15 13:59:41 2013 From: bob at FiberInternetCenter.com (Bob Evans) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 10:59:41 -0800 Subject: [arin-discuss] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility for ARIN Member Organizations In-Reply-To: <1EF681E8-40C4-4F43-B21D-B67F613A6FBB@delong.com> References: <50F57EE1.5050201@arin.net> <1EF681E8-40C4-4F43-B21D-B67F613A6FBB@delong.com> Message-ID: I also oppose the change. bob evans > I oppose the change. > > It would create ambiguity and a race condition where an organization > would have to apply additional management constraints on who was a > designated POC in order to prevent the possibility of vote tampering. > > I would support allowing the admin contact to radio-button the DMR > in the ARIN-ONLINE interface. > > Owen > > On Jan 15, 2013, at 8:08 AM, ARIN wrote: > >> ARIN is seeking feedback from its membership about changing voting >> eligibility so that any ARIN web account linked to an Admin and/or Tech >> POC of a Member organization may cast the ballot for the organization's >> one vote in ARIN elections. This change would replace the Designated >> Member Representative (DMR) role in the ARIN elections and allow >> organizations to have more that one eligible voter. There is no change >> to the one vote per Organization ID rule. >> We are suggesting this change in order to increase participation in ARIN >> elections. This change would: >> >> * Allow organizations to have more than one eligible voter, thereby >> increasing the chances that someone would be available to cast a ballot >> >> * Eliminate the need for Members to create and update the DMR POC >> with its specialized email requirements >> >> Note: The benefit of allowing more than one individual the ability >> to cast the organization's one vote may in some cases require internal >> coordination to determine who will cast the vote. If a second individual >> attempts to vote, they will receive notification that their organization >> has already voted and they will not be able to cast a ballot. >> >> ARIN is seeking input from the community regarding this potential >> change, including whether it would be beneficial and if made, whether >> voting eligibility should be provided to Admin POCs or Admin and Tech >> POCs. >> You can read background on ARIN's existing processes of DMRs at: >> >> https://www.arin.net/about_us/membership/dmr.html >> >> You can read about ARIN's current Board and Advisory Council Election >> voting process at: >> >> https://www.arin.net/participate/elections/elec_procedures.html#voting >> >> Relevant Statistics: >> >> 89% of ARIN Members currently have a web account linked to either >> their Admin or Tech POC handle. >> >> 85% of ARIN Members currently have a web account linked to their >> Admin POC handle. >> >> In the 2012 elections 87% of Member organizations had a DMR that >> was eligible to vote. >> >> Please provide comments to arin-discuss at arin.net. >> >> Discussion will close on 12 February 2013. ARIN seeks clear direction >> from its members, so your feedback is important. If you have any >> questions, please contact us at info at arin.net. >> >> Regards, >> >> Communications and Member Services >> American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ARIN-Discuss >> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to >> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). >> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss >> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. > > _______________________________________________ > ARIN-Discuss > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to > the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss > Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. > Bob Evans CTO 650-330-0428 ext 204 M-F 9-5 Pacific , please From jrdolan at mt-opticom.com Tue Jan 15 14:00:03 2013 From: jrdolan at mt-opticom.com (Jim Dolan Jr) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 12:00:03 -0700 Subject: [arin-discuss] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility for ARIN Member Organizations In-Reply-To: <50F57EE1.5050201@arin.net> References: <50F57EE1.5050201@arin.net> Message-ID: <53762DB6-C26C-4CF1-AA3B-FFDDE1DEB05B@mt-opticom.com> What percentage of the DMRs actually voted? I think this useful and helpful info in this discussion. Jim On Jan 15, 2013, at 9:13 AM, "ARIN" wrote: > ARIN is seeking feedback from its membership about changing voting > eligibility so that any ARIN web account linked to an Admin and/or Tech > POC of a Member organization may cast the ballot for the organization's > one vote in ARIN elections. This change would replace the Designated > Member Representative (DMR) role in the ARIN elections and allow > organizations to have more that one eligible voter. There is no change > to the one vote per Organization ID rule. > We are suggesting this change in order to increase participation in ARIN > elections. This change would: > > * Allow organizations to have more than one eligible voter, thereby > increasing the chances that someone would be available to cast a ballot > > * Eliminate the need for Members to create and update the DMR POC > with its specialized email requirements > > Note: The benefit of allowing more than one individual the ability > to cast the organization's one vote may in some cases require internal > coordination to determine who will cast the vote. If a second individual > attempts to vote, they will receive notification that their organization > has already voted and they will not be able to cast a ballot. > > ARIN is seeking input from the community regarding this potential > change, including whether it would be beneficial and if made, whether > voting eligibility should be provided to Admin POCs or Admin and Tech POCs. > You can read background on ARIN's existing processes of DMRs at: > > https://www.arin.net/about_us/membership/dmr.html > > You can read about ARIN's current Board and Advisory Council Election > voting process at: > > https://www.arin.net/participate/elections/elec_procedures.html#voting > > Relevant Statistics: > > 89% of ARIN Members currently have a web account linked to either > their Admin or Tech POC handle. > > 85% of ARIN Members currently have a web account linked to their > Admin POC handle. > > In the 2012 elections 87% of Member organizations had a DMR that > was eligible to vote. > > Please provide comments to arin-discuss at arin.net. > > Discussion will close on 12 February 2013. ARIN seeks clear direction > from its members, so your feedback is important. If you have any > questions, please contact us at info at arin.net. > > Regards, > > Communications and Member Services > American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN) > > _______________________________________________ > ARIN-Discuss > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to > the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss > Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Matthew.Wilder at telus.com Tue Jan 15 14:06:36 2013 From: Matthew.Wilder at telus.com (Matthew Wilder) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 12:06:36 -0700 Subject: [arin-discuss] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility for ARIN Member Organizations In-Reply-To: <1EF681E8-40C4-4F43-B21D-B67F613A6FBB@delong.com> References: <50F57EE1.5050201@arin.net> <1EF681E8-40C4-4F43-B21D-B67F613A6FBB@delong.com> Message-ID: I share the same concern as Owen. Perhaps one way of recognizing the current structure and delegated power of the DMRs within active organizations is to allow votes from any POC while explicitly noting that DMR trumps if they participate. This seems to be an easy best-of-both worlds compromise. In other words, if the DMR is active and votes, their vote represents their OrgID. If they don't vote, it goes to any POC who took the time to vote. Matthew On Tues, Jan 15, 2012 at 12:44 AM, Owen DeLong wrote: > I oppose the change. > > It would create ambiguity and a race condition where an organization would have to apply additional management constraints on who was a designated POC in order to prevent the possibility of vote tampering. > > I would support allowing the admin contact to radio-button the DMR in the ARIN-ONLINE interface. > > Owen > > On Jan 15, 2013, at 8:08 AM, ARIN wrote: > > > ARIN is seeking feedback from its membership about changing voting > > eligibility so that any ARIN web account linked to an Admin and/or > > Tech POC of a Member organization may cast the ballot for the > > organization's one vote in ARIN elections. This change would replace > > the Designated Member Representative (DMR) role in the ARIN elections > > and allow organizations to have more that one eligible voter. There > > is no change to the one vote per Organization ID rule. > > We are suggesting this change in order to increase participation in > > ARIN elections. This change would: > > > > * Allow organizations to have more than one eligible voter, thereby > > increasing the chances that someone would be available to cast a > > ballot > > > > * Eliminate the need for Members to create and update the DMR POC > > with its specialized email requirements > > > > Note: The benefit of allowing more than one individual the ability > > to cast the organization's one vote may in some cases require internal > > coordination to determine who will cast the vote. If a second > > individual attempts to vote, they will receive notification that their > > organization has already voted and they will not be able to cast a ballot. > > > > ARIN is seeking input from the community regarding this potential > > change, including whether it would be beneficial and if made, whether > > voting eligibility should be provided to Admin POCs or Admin and Tech POCs. > > You can read background on ARIN's existing processes of DMRs at: > > > > https://www.arin.net/about_us/membership/dmr.html > > > > You can read about ARIN's current Board and Advisory Council Election > > voting process at: > > > > https://www.arin.net/participate/elections/elec_procedures.html#voting > > > > Relevant Statistics: > > > > 89% of ARIN Members currently have a web account linked to either > > their Admin or Tech POC handle. > > > > 85% of ARIN Members currently have a web account linked to their > > Admin POC handle. > > > > In the 2012 elections 87% of Member organizations had a DMR that > > was eligible to vote. > > > > Please provide comments to arin-discuss at arin.net. > > > > Discussion will close on 12 February 2013. ARIN seeks clear direction > > from its members, so your feedback is important. If you have any > > questions, please contact us at info at arin.net. > > > > Regards, > > > > Communications and Member Services > > American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN) > > > > _______________________________________________ > > ARIN-Discuss > > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN > > Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). > > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > > http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss > > Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. > ______________________________________________ > ARIN-Discuss > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss > Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. From eugene at anchorfree.com Tue Jan 15 14:10:33 2013 From: eugene at anchorfree.com (Eugene Malobrodsky) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 19:10:33 +0000 Subject: [arin-discuss] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility for ARIN Member Organizations In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I also appose to the change On 1/15/13 10:59 AM, "Bob Evans" wrote: >I also oppose the change. >bob evans > >> I oppose the change. >> >> It would create ambiguity and a race condition where an organization >> would have to apply additional management constraints on who was a >> designated POC in order to prevent the possibility of vote tampering. >> >> I would support allowing the admin contact to radio-button the DMR >> in the ARIN-ONLINE interface. >> >> Owen >> >> On Jan 15, 2013, at 8:08 AM, ARIN wrote: >> >>> ARIN is seeking feedback from its membership about changing voting >>> eligibility so that any ARIN web account linked to an Admin and/or Tech >>> POC of a Member organization may cast the ballot for the organization's >>> one vote in ARIN elections. This change would replace the Designated >>> Member Representative (DMR) role in the ARIN elections and allow >>> organizations to have more that one eligible voter. There is no change >>> to the one vote per Organization ID rule. >>> We are suggesting this change in order to increase participation in >>>ARIN >>> elections. This change would: >>> >>> * Allow organizations to have more than one eligible voter, thereby >>> increasing the chances that someone would be available to cast a ballot >>> >>> * Eliminate the need for Members to create and update the DMR POC >>> with its specialized email requirements >>> >>> Note: The benefit of allowing more than one individual the ability >>> to cast the organization's one vote may in some cases require internal >>> coordination to determine who will cast the vote. If a second >>>individual >>> attempts to vote, they will receive notification that their >>>organization >>> has already voted and they will not be able to cast a ballot. >>> >>> ARIN is seeking input from the community regarding this potential >>> change, including whether it would be beneficial and if made, whether >>> voting eligibility should be provided to Admin POCs or Admin and Tech >>> POCs. >>> You can read background on ARIN's existing processes of DMRs at: >>> >>> https://www.arin.net/about_us/membership/dmr.html >>> >>> You can read about ARIN's current Board and Advisory Council Election >>> voting process at: >>> >>> https://www.arin.net/participate/elections/elec_procedures.html#voting >>> >>> Relevant Statistics: >>> >>> 89% of ARIN Members currently have a web account linked to either >>> their Admin or Tech POC handle. >>> >>> 85% of ARIN Members currently have a web account linked to their >>> Admin POC handle. >>> >>> In the 2012 elections 87% of Member organizations had a DMR that >>> was eligible to vote. >>> >>> Please provide comments to arin-discuss at arin.net. >>> >>> Discussion will close on 12 February 2013. ARIN seeks clear direction >>> from its members, so your feedback is important. If you have any >>> questions, please contact us at info at arin.net. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Communications and Member Services >>> American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN) >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> ARIN-Discuss >>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to >>> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). >>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >>> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss >>> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ARIN-Discuss >> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to >> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). >> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss >> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. >> > > >Bob Evans >CTO >650-330-0428 ext 204 M-F 9-5 Pacific , please > > >_______________________________________________ >ARIN-Discuss >You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to >the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). >Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss >Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. From ram at robertmarder.com Tue Jan 15 14:13:29 2013 From: ram at robertmarder.com (Robert Marder) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 13:13:29 -0600 Subject: [arin-discuss] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility for ARIN Member Organizations In-Reply-To: References: <50F57EE1.5050201@arin.net> <1EF681E8-40C4-4F43-B21D-B67F613A6FBB@delong.com> Message-ID: <0aba987a3f27f41854becd5c0dec41f4@robertmarder.com> I also oppose the change. "one vote, one person". making that "many persons, one vote" only creates more problems. On 2013-01-15 12:59, Bob Evans wrote: > I also oppose the change. > bob evans > >> I oppose the change. >> >> It would create ambiguity and a race condition where an organization >> would have to apply additional management constraints on who was a >> designated POC in order to prevent the possibility of vote >> tampering. >> >> I would support allowing the admin contact to radio-button the DMR >> in the ARIN-ONLINE interface. >> >> Owen >> >> On Jan 15, 2013, at 8:08 AM, ARIN wrote: >> >>> ARIN is seeking feedback from its membership about changing voting >>> eligibility so that any ARIN web account linked to an Admin and/or >>> Tech >>> POC of a Member organization may cast the ballot for the >>> organization's >>> one vote in ARIN elections. This change would replace the >>> Designated >>> Member Representative (DMR) role in the ARIN elections and allow >>> organizations to have more that one eligible voter. There is no >>> change >>> to the one vote per Organization ID rule. >>> We are suggesting this change in order to increase participation in >>> ARIN >>> elections. This change would: >>> >>> * Allow organizations to have more than one eligible voter, >>> thereby >>> increasing the chances that someone would be available to cast a >>> ballot >>> >>> * Eliminate the need for Members to create and update the DMR >>> POC >>> with its specialized email requirements >>> >>> Note: The benefit of allowing more than one individual the >>> ability >>> to cast the organization's one vote may in some cases require >>> internal >>> coordination to determine who will cast the vote. If a second >>> individual >>> attempts to vote, they will receive notification that their >>> organization >>> has already voted and they will not be able to cast a ballot. >>> >>> ARIN is seeking input from the community regarding this potential >>> change, including whether it would be beneficial and if made, >>> whether >>> voting eligibility should be provided to Admin POCs or Admin and >>> Tech >>> POCs. >>> You can read background on ARIN's existing processes of DMRs at: >>> >>> https://www.arin.net/about_us/membership/dmr.html >>> >>> You can read about ARIN's current Board and Advisory Council >>> Election >>> voting process at: >>> >>> >>> https://www.arin.net/participate/elections/elec_procedures.html#voting >>> >>> Relevant Statistics: >>> >>> 89% of ARIN Members currently have a web account linked to >>> either >>> their Admin or Tech POC handle. >>> >>> 85% of ARIN Members currently have a web account linked to >>> their >>> Admin POC handle. >>> >>> In the 2012 elections 87% of Member organizations had a DMR >>> that >>> was eligible to vote. >>> >>> Please provide comments to arin-discuss at arin.net. >>> >>> Discussion will close on 12 February 2013. ARIN seeks clear >>> direction >>> from its members, so your feedback is important. If you have any >>> questions, please contact us at info at arin.net. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Communications and Member Services >>> American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN) >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> ARIN-Discuss >>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to >>> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). >>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >>> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss >>> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ARIN-Discuss >> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to >> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). >> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss >> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. >> > > > Bob Evans > CTO > 650-330-0428 ext 204 M-F 9-5 Pacific , please > > > _______________________________________________ > ARIN-Discuss > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to > the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss > Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. From jer at mia.net Tue Jan 15 14:31:42 2013 From: jer at mia.net (Jeremy Anthony Kinsey) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 13:31:42 -0600 Subject: [arin-discuss] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility for ARIN Member Organizations In-Reply-To: <53762DB6-C26C-4CF1-AA3B-FFDDE1DEB05B@mt-opticom.com> References: <50F57EE1.5050201@arin.net> <53762DB6-C26C-4CF1-AA3B-FFDDE1DEB05B@mt-opticom.com> Message-ID: Good question. With all the paraphernalia ARIN sends out, from magnets, letters, post cards, emails, phone calls, personal visits from ARIN Signing Telegrams encouraging voting, it would be useful to know why or how voting participation is so dismal. I'm not a fan of having someone other than an OWNER/ADMIN - someone informed actually voting. Its hard enough to effect an opinion of reason without it being muddled by those that have no real interest or involvement in the process and repercussions of any possible outcome. On Jan 15, 2013, at 1:00 PM, Jim Dolan Jr wrote: > What percentage of the DMRs actually voted? I think this useful and helpful info in this discussion. > > Jim > > > > On Jan 15, 2013, at 9:13 AM, "ARIN" wrote: > >> ARIN is seeking feedback from its membership about changing voting >> eligibility so that any ARIN web account linked to an Admin and/or Tech >> POC of a Member organization may cast the ballot for the organization's >> one vote in ARIN elections. This change would replace the Designated >> Member Representative (DMR) role in the ARIN elections and allow >> organizations to have more that one eligible voter. There is no change >> to the one vote per Organization ID rule. >> We are suggesting this change in order to increase participation in ARIN >> elections. This change would: >> >> * Allow organizations to have more than one eligible voter, thereby >> increasing the chances that someone would be available to cast a ballot >> >> * Eliminate the need for Members to create and update the DMR POC >> with its specialized email requirements >> >> Note: The benefit of allowing more than one individual the ability >> to cast the organization's one vote may in some cases require internal >> coordination to determine who will cast the vote. If a second individual >> attempts to vote, they will receive notification that their organization >> has already voted and they will not be able to cast a ballot. >> >> ARIN is seeking input from the community regarding this potential >> change, including whether it would be beneficial and if made, whether >> voting eligibility should be provided to Admin POCs or Admin and Tech POCs. >> You can read background on ARIN's existing processes of DMRs at: >> >> https://www.arin.net/about_us/membership/dmr.html >> >> You can read about ARIN's current Board and Advisory Council Election >> voting process at: >> >> https://www.arin.net/participate/elections/elec_procedures.html#voting >> >> Relevant Statistics: >> >> 89% of ARIN Members currently have a web account linked to either >> their Admin or Tech POC handle. >> >> 85% of ARIN Members currently have a web account linked to their >> Admin POC handle. >> >> In the 2012 elections 87% of Member organizations had a DMR that >> was eligible to vote. >> >> Please provide comments to arin-discuss at arin.net. >> >> Discussion will close on 12 February 2013. ARIN seeks clear direction >> from its members, so your feedback is important. If you have any >> questions, please contact us at info at arin.net. >> >> Regards, >> >> Communications and Member Services >> American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ARIN-Discuss >> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to >> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). >> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss >> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. >> > _______________________________________________ > ARIN-Discuss > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to > the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss > Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. Regards, Jeremy Anthony Kinsey Bella Mia, Inc. Quality Web Hosting and Dedicated Servers since 1997 Hosting: http://hostinglizard.com Servers http://www.hostdrive.com Tel: 262-248-6759 Fax: 262-248-6959 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scottleibrand at gmail.com Tue Jan 15 14:29:36 2013 From: scottleibrand at gmail.com (Scott Leibrand) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 11:29:36 -0800 Subject: [arin-discuss] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility for ARIN Member Organizations In-Reply-To: References: <50F57EE1.5050201@arin.net> <1EF681E8-40C4-4F43-B21D-B67F613A6FBB@delong.com> Message-ID: I think it would be useful to allow organizations without a DMR (or whose DMR doesn't vote) the chance for their votes to be counted, but I share Owen's concern about creating a race condition. I like Matthew's approach. A similar approach might be to only allow the DMR to vote if a DMR has been designated, but allow any POC to vote if the organization chooses not to designate a DMR. -Scott On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 11:06 AM, Matthew Wilder wrote: > I share the same concern as Owen. Perhaps one way of recognizing the > current structure and delegated power of the DMRs within active > organizations is to allow votes from any POC while explicitly noting that > DMR trumps if they participate. This seems to be an easy best-of-both > worlds compromise. In other words, if the DMR is active and votes, their > vote represents their OrgID. If they don't vote, it goes to any POC who > took the time to vote. > > Matthew > > On Tues, Jan 15, 2012 at 12:44 AM, Owen DeLong wrote: > > > I oppose the change. > > > > It would create ambiguity and a race condition where an organization > would have to apply additional management constraints on who was a > designated POC in order to prevent the possibility of vote tampering. > > > > I would support allowing the admin contact to radio-button the DMR in > the ARIN-ONLINE interface. > > > > Owen > > > > On Jan 15, 2013, at 8:08 AM, ARIN wrote: > > > > > ARIN is seeking feedback from its membership about changing voting > > > eligibility so that any ARIN web account linked to an Admin and/or > > > Tech POC of a Member organization may cast the ballot for the > > > organization's one vote in ARIN elections. This change would replace > > > the Designated Member Representative (DMR) role in the ARIN elections > > > and allow organizations to have more that one eligible voter. There > > > is no change to the one vote per Organization ID rule. > > > We are suggesting this change in order to increase participation in > > > ARIN elections. This change would: > > > > > > * Allow organizations to have more than one eligible voter, thereby > > > increasing the chances that someone would be available to cast a > > > ballot > > > > > > * Eliminate the need for Members to create and update the DMR POC > > > with its specialized email requirements > > > > > > Note: The benefit of allowing more than one individual the ability > > > to cast the organization's one vote may in some cases require internal > > > coordination to determine who will cast the vote. If a second > > > individual attempts to vote, they will receive notification that their > > > organization has already voted and they will not be able to cast a > ballot. > > > > > > ARIN is seeking input from the community regarding this potential > > > change, including whether it would be beneficial and if made, whether > > > voting eligibility should be provided to Admin POCs or Admin and Tech > POCs. > > > You can read background on ARIN's existing processes of DMRs at: > > > > > > https://www.arin.net/about_us/membership/dmr.html > > > > > > You can read about ARIN's current Board and Advisory Council Election > > > voting process at: > > > > > > https://www.arin.net/participate/elections/elec_procedures.html#voting > > > > > > Relevant Statistics: > > > > > > 89% of ARIN Members currently have a web account linked to either > > > their Admin or Tech POC handle. > > > > > > 85% of ARIN Members currently have a web account linked to their > > > Admin POC handle. > > > > > > In the 2012 elections 87% of Member organizations had a DMR that > > > was eligible to vote. > > > > > > Please provide comments to arin-discuss at arin.net. > > > > > > Discussion will close on 12 February 2013. ARIN seeks clear direction > > > from its members, so your feedback is important. If you have any > > > questions, please contact us at info at arin.net. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Communications and Member Services > > > American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN) > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > ARIN-Discuss > > > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN > > > Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). > > > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > > > http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss > > > Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. > > ______________________________________________ > > ARIN-Discuss > > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN > Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). > > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > > http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss > > Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. > _______________________________________________ > ARIN-Discuss > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to > the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss > Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sweeny at indiana.edu Tue Jan 15 14:36:53 2013 From: sweeny at indiana.edu (Brent Sweeny) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 09:36:53 -1000 Subject: [arin-discuss] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility for ARIN Member Organizations In-Reply-To: References: <50F57EE1.5050201@arin.net> <1EF681E8-40C4-4F43-B21D-B67F613A6FBB@delong.com> Message-ID: <50F5AFD5.60507@indiana.edu> I applaud the goal of increasing participation in ARIN elections (and am also curious about the participation rate of DMRs from the 87% of orgs who have DMRs--among all the other statistics given, that one would have been very useful and was prominently absent), but I agree with what I think is the set of objections to the new proposal for what appears to be a sort of uncoordinated ad-hoc voting method open to intra-organization conflict. How about if the org's admin POC(s) pre-designated a subset of the org's POCs, either admin or tech, as 'candidate' voters, among whom any of them could cast the org's vote? would that, perhaps, meet the objective and help meet the concerns of objectors? just a thought. Brent Sweeny, Indiana University From info at arin.net Tue Jan 15 14:39:31 2013 From: info at arin.net (ARIN) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 14:39:31 -0500 Subject: [arin-discuss] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility for ARIN Member Organizations In-Reply-To: <53762DB6-C26C-4CF1-AA3B-FFDDE1DEB05B@mt-opticom.com> References: <50F57EE1.5050201@arin.net> <53762DB6-C26C-4CF1-AA3B-FFDDE1DEB05B@mt-opticom.com> Message-ID: <50F5B073.6080609@arin.net> Jim, Here are the number of dmrs who voted in the last couple of elections: In 2012 - 3,735 Eligible voters* as of 10 October 2012 *ARIN members in good standing with properly registered Designated Member Representatives on record 25 August 2012 386 unique member organizations cast a ballot in the Board of Trustees election. (10.334%) 393 unique member organizations cast a ballot in the Advisory Council election. (10.522%) In 2011 - 3,262 Eligible voters* as of 27 September 2011 *ARIN members in good standing with properly registered Designated Member Representatives on record 1 January 2011 463 unique member organizations cast a ballot in the Board of Trustees election. (13.366%) 487 unique member organizations cast a ballot in the Advisory Council election. (14.929%) Election voter information is available through announcements on the ARIN website: https://www.arin.net/announcements/2012/20121109.html https://www.arin.net/announcements/2011/20111028_election.html Regards, Susan Hamlin Director, Communications and Member Services American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN) On 1/15/13 2:00 PM, Jim Dolan Jr wrote: > What percentage of the DMRs actually voted? I think this useful and > helpful info in this discussion. > > Jim > > > > On Jan 15, 2013, at 9:13 AM, "ARIN" > wrote: > >> [arin-discuss] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility for >> ARIN Member Organizations >> >> ARIN is seeking feedback from its membership about changing voting >> eligibility so that any ARIN web account linked to an Admin and/or Tech >> POC of a Member organization may cast the ballot for the organization's >> one vote in ARIN elections. This change would replace the Designated >> Member Representative (DMR) role in the ARIN elections and allow >> organizations to have more that one eligible voter. There is no change >> to the one vote per Organization ID rule. >> We are suggesting this change in order to increase participation in ARIN >> elections. This change would: >> >> * Allow organizations to have more than one eligible voter, thereby >> increasing the chances that someone would be available to cast a ballot >> >> * Eliminate the need for Members to create and update the DMR POC >> with its specialized email requirements >> >> Note: The benefit of allowing more than one individual the ability >> to cast the organization's one vote may in some cases require internal >> coordination to determine who will cast the vote. If a second individual >> attempts to vote, they will receive notification that their organization >> has already voted and they will not be able to cast a ballot. >> >> ARIN is seeking input from the community regarding this potential >> change, including whether it would be beneficial and if made, whether >> voting eligibility should be provided to Admin POCs or Admin and Tech >> POCs. >> You can read background on ARIN's existing processes of DMRs at: >> >> https://www.arin.net/about_us/membership/dmr.html >> >> You can read about ARIN's current Board and Advisory Council Election >> voting process at: >> >> https://www.arin.net/participate/elections/elec_procedures.html#voting >> >> Relevant Statistics: >> >> 89% of ARIN Members currently have a web account linked to either >> their Admin or Tech POC handle. >> >> 85% of ARIN Members currently have a web account linked to their >> Admin POC handle. >> >> In the 2012 elections 87% of Member organizations had a DMR that >> was eligible to vote. >> >> Please provide comments to arin-discuss at arin.net >> . >> >> Discussion will close on 12 February 2013. ARIN seeks clear direction >> from its members, so your feedback is important. If you have any >> questions, please contact us at info at arin.net . >> >> Regards, >> >> Communications and Member Services >> American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ARIN-Discuss >> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to >> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net >> ). >> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss >> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience >> any issues. >> > > > _______________________________________________ > ARIN-Discuss > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to > the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss > Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Timothy.S.Morizot at irs.gov Tue Jan 15 14:29:49 2013 From: Timothy.S.Morizot at irs.gov (Morizot Timothy S) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 19:29:49 +0000 Subject: [arin-discuss] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility for ARIN Member Organizations In-Reply-To: <1EF681E8-40C4-4F43-B21D-B67F613A6FBB@delong.com> References: <50F57EE1.5050201@arin.net> <1EF681E8-40C4-4F43-B21D-B67F613A6FBB@delong.com> Message-ID: <968C470DAC25FB419E0159952F28F0C04143838E@MEM0200CP3XF04.ds.irsnet.gov> +1 to both statements. > -----Original Message----- > From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net > [mailto:arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of Owen DeLong > Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 12:50 PM > To: ARIN > Cc: arin-discuss at arin.net > Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] ARIN Consultation: Changing the > Voter Eligibility for ARIN Member Organizations > > I oppose the change. > > It would create ambiguity and a race condition where an > organization would have to apply additional management > constraints on who was a designated POC in order to prevent > the possibility of vote tampering. > > I would support allowing the admin contact to radio-button > the DMR in the ARIN-ONLINE interface. From manish at slash20.com Tue Jan 15 14:41:09 2013 From: manish at slash20.com (Manish) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 13:41:09 -0600 Subject: [arin-discuss] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility for ARIN Member Organizations In-Reply-To: <50F5B073.6080609@arin.net> References: <50F57EE1.5050201@arin.net> <53762DB6-C26C-4CF1-AA3B-FFDDE1DEB05B@mt-opticom.com> <50F5B073.6080609@arin.net> Message-ID: <44DF5FDB765F4047976815D5EE2D646F760F730C7E@AUSP01VMBX06.collaborationhost.net> UNSUBSCRIBE From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of ARIN Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 11:40 AM To: Jim Dolan Jr Cc: arin-discuss at arin.net Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility for ARIN Member Organizations Jim, Here are the number of dmrs who voted in the last couple of elections: In 2012 - 3,735 Eligible voters* as of 10 October 2012 *ARIN members in good standing with properly registered Designated Member Representatives on record 25 August 2012 386 unique member organizations cast a ballot in the Board of Trustees election. (10.334%) 393 unique member organizations cast a ballot in the Advisory Council election. (10.522%) In 2011 - 3,262 Eligible voters* as of 27 September 2011 *ARIN members in good standing with properly registered Designated Member Representatives on record 1 January 2011 463 unique member organizations cast a ballot in the Board of Trustees election. (13.366%) 487 unique member organizations cast a ballot in the Advisory Council election. (14.929%) Election voter information is available through announcements on the ARIN website: https://www.arin.net/announcements/2012/20121109.html https://www.arin.net/announcements/2011/20111028_election.html Regards, Susan Hamlin Director, Communications and Member Services American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN) On 1/15/13 2:00 PM, Jim Dolan Jr wrote: What percentage of the DMRs actually voted? I think this useful and helpful info in this discussion. Jim On Jan 15, 2013, at 9:13 AM, "ARIN" > wrote: ARIN is seeking feedback from its membership about changing voting eligibility so that any ARIN web account linked to an Admin and/or Tech POC of a Member organization may cast the ballot for the organization's one vote in ARIN elections. This change would replace the Designated Member Representative (DMR) role in the ARIN elections and allow organizations to have more that one eligible voter. There is no change to the one vote per Organization ID rule. We are suggesting this change in order to increase participation in ARIN elections. This change would: * Allow organizations to have more than one eligible voter, thereby increasing the chances that someone would be available to cast a ballot * Eliminate the need for Members to create and update the DMR POC with its specialized email requirements Note: The benefit of allowing more than one individual the ability to cast the organization's one vote may in some cases require internal coordination to determine who will cast the vote. If a second individual attempts to vote, they will receive notification that their organization has already voted and they will not be able to cast a ballot. ARIN is seeking input from the community regarding this potential change, including whether it would be beneficial and if made, whether voting eligibility should be provided to Admin POCs or Admin and Tech POCs. You can read background on ARIN's existing processes of DMRs at: https://www.arin.net/about_us/membership/dmr.html You can read about ARIN's current Board and Advisory Council Election voting process at: https://www.arin.net/participate/elections/elec_procedures.html#voting Relevant Statistics: 89% of ARIN Members currently have a web account linked to either their Admin or Tech POC handle. 85% of ARIN Members currently have a web account linked to their Admin POC handle. In the 2012 elections 87% of Member organizations had a DMR that was eligible to vote. Please provide comments to arin-discuss at arin.net. Discussion will close on 12 February 2013. ARIN seeks clear direction from its members, so your feedback is important. If you have any questions, please contact us at info at arin.net. Regards, Communications and Member Services American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN) _______________________________________________ ARIN-Discuss You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. _______________________________________________ ARIN-Discuss You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ram at robertmarder.com Tue Jan 15 14:42:43 2013 From: ram at robertmarder.com (Robert Marder) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 13:42:43 -0600 Subject: [arin-discuss] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility for ARIN Member Organizations In-Reply-To: References: <50F57EE1.5050201@arin.net> <53762DB6-C26C-4CF1-AA3B-FFDDE1DEB05B@mt-opticom.com> Message-ID: <1aebc98d58aa85d89980afe15a42e6f3@robertmarder.com> Well, I expect voting turnout is low as a lot of people just can't be bothered. A lot of issues that come up are corner cases that don't really affect many members, or affect them in a significant way. I don't see low voter turnout as a problem. If people don't have an opinion one way or the other, or if an issue doesn't affect them that much anyway (or affects them the same way regardless of the vote), then why should they vote? It's like this issue for example. While I have an opinion, if this issue was up for a vote, I probably wouldn't bother voting, as I am the only member of my organization so it doesn't affect me anyway. On 2013-01-15 13:31, Jeremy Anthony Kinsey wrote: > Good question. > With all the paraphernalia ARIN sends out, from magnets, letters, > post cards, emails, phone calls, personal visits from ARIN Signing > Telegrams encouraging voting, it would be useful to know why or how > voting participation is so dismal. > > I'm not a fan of having someone other than an OWNER/ADMIN - someone > informed actually voting. Its hard enough to effect an opinion of > reason without it being muddled by those that have no real interest > or > involvement in the process and repercussions of any possible outcome. > > On Jan 15, 2013, at 1:00 PM, Jim Dolan Jr > wrote: > >> What percentage of the DMRs actually voted? I think this useful and >> helpful info in this discussion. >> >> Jim >> >> On Jan 15, 2013, at 9:13 AM, "ARIN" wrote: >> >>> [arin-discuss] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility >>> for ARIN Member Organizations >>> >>> ARIN is seeking feedback from its membership about changing voting >>> eligibility so that any ARIN web account linked to an Admin and/or >>> Tech >>> POC of a Member organization may cast the ballot for the >>> organization's >>> one vote in ARIN elections. This change would replace the >>> Designated >>> Member Representative (DMR) role in the ARIN elections and allow >>> organizations to have more that one eligible voter. There is no >>> change >>> to the one vote per Organization ID rule. >>> We are suggesting this change in order to increase participation in >>> ARIN >>> elections. This change would: >>> >>> * Allow organizations to have more than one eligible voter, thereby >>> increasing the chances that someone would be available to cast a >>> ballot >>> >>> * Eliminate the need for Members to create and update the DMR POC >>> with its specialized email requirements >>> >>> Note: The benefit of allowing more than one individual the ability >>> to cast the organization's one vote may in some cases require >>> internal >>> coordination to determine who will cast the vote. If a second >>> individual >>> attempts to vote, they will receive notification that their >>> organization >>> has already voted and they will not be able to cast a ballot. >>> >>> ARIN is seeking input from the community regarding this potential >>> change, including whether it would be beneficial and if made, >>> whether >>> voting eligibility should be provided to Admin POCs or Admin and >>> Tech POCs. >>> You can read background on ARIN's existing processes of DMRs at: >>> >>> https://www.arin.net/about_us/membership/dmr.html [1] >>> >>> You can read about ARIN's current Board and Advisory Council >>> Election >>> voting process at: >>> >>> >>> https://www.arin.net/participate/elections/elec_procedures.html#voting >>> [2] >>> >>> Relevant Statistics: >>> >>> 89% of ARIN Members currently have a web account linked to either >>> their Admin or Tech POC handle. >>> >>> 85% of ARIN Members currently have a web account linked to their >>> Admin POC handle. >>> >>> In the 2012 elections 87% of Member organizations had a DMR that >>> was eligible to vote. >>> >>> Please provide comments to arin-discuss at arin.net. >>> >>> Discussion will close on 12 February 2013. ARIN seeks clear >>> direction >>> from its members, so your feedback is important. If you have any >>> questions, please contact us at info at arin.net. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Communications and Member Services >>> American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN) >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> ARIN-Discuss >>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to >>> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). >>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >>> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss [3] >>> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. >> _______________________________________________ >> ARIN-Discuss >> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to >> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). >> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss [3] >> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. > > Regards, > Jeremy Anthony Kinsey > > Bella Mia, Inc. > Quality Web Hosting and > Dedicated Servers since 1997 > > Hosting: http://hostinglizard.com [4] > Servers http://www.hostdrive.com [5] > Tel: 262-248-6759 Fax: 262-248-6959 > > > Links: > ------ > [1] https://www.arin.net/about_us/membership/dmr.html > [2] > https://www.arin.net/participate/elections/elec_procedures.html#voting > [3] http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss > [4] http://hostinglizard.com > [5] http://www.hostdrive.com > > _______________________________________________ > ARIN-Discuss > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to > the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss > Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. From JERRY.DOWELL at CBP.DHS.GOV Tue Jan 15 14:50:17 2013 From: JERRY.DOWELL at CBP.DHS.GOV (DOWELL, JERRY (CTR)) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 19:50:17 +0000 Subject: [arin-discuss] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility for ARIN Member Organizations In-Reply-To: <1aebc98d58aa85d89980afe15a42e6f3@robertmarder.com> References: <50F57EE1.5050201@arin.net> <53762DB6-C26C-4CF1-AA3B-FFDDE1DEB05B@mt-opticom.com> <1aebc98d58aa85d89980afe15a42e6f3@robertmarder.com> Message-ID: Why not provide for the admin/dmr for the organization proxy a other person within his/her organization to vote for them on a specific election? -----Original Message----- From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of Robert Marder Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 2:43 PM To: arin-discuss at arin.net Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility for ARIN Member Organizations Well, I expect voting turnout is low as a lot of people just can't be bothered. A lot of issues that come up are corner cases that don't really affect many members, or affect them in a significant way. I don't see low voter turnout as a problem. If people don't have an opinion one way or the other, or if an issue doesn't affect them that much anyway (or affects them the same way regardless of the vote), then why should they vote? It's like this issue for example. While I have an opinion, if this issue was up for a vote, I probably wouldn't bother voting, as I am the only member of my organization so it doesn't affect me anyway. On 2013-01-15 13:31, Jeremy Anthony Kinsey wrote: > Good question. > With all the paraphernalia ARIN sends out, from magnets, letters, > post cards, emails, phone calls, personal visits from ARIN Signing > Telegrams encouraging voting, it would be useful to know why or how > voting participation is so dismal. > > I'm not a fan of having someone other than an OWNER/ADMIN - someone > informed actually voting. Its hard enough to effect an opinion of > reason without it being muddled by those that have no real interest > or > involvement in the process and repercussions of any possible outcome. > > On Jan 15, 2013, at 1:00 PM, Jim Dolan Jr > wrote: > >> What percentage of the DMRs actually voted? I think this useful and >> helpful info in this discussion. >> >> Jim >> >> On Jan 15, 2013, at 9:13 AM, "ARIN" wrote: >> >>> [arin-discuss] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility >>> for ARIN Member Organizations >>> >>> ARIN is seeking feedback from its membership about changing voting >>> eligibility so that any ARIN web account linked to an Admin and/or >>> Tech >>> POC of a Member organization may cast the ballot for the >>> organization's >>> one vote in ARIN elections. This change would replace the >>> Designated >>> Member Representative (DMR) role in the ARIN elections and allow >>> organizations to have more that one eligible voter. There is no >>> change >>> to the one vote per Organization ID rule. >>> We are suggesting this change in order to increase participation in >>> ARIN >>> elections. This change would: >>> >>> * Allow organizations to have more than one eligible voter, thereby >>> increasing the chances that someone would be available to cast a >>> ballot >>> >>> * Eliminate the need for Members to create and update the DMR POC >>> with its specialized email requirements >>> >>> Note: The benefit of allowing more than one individual the ability >>> to cast the organization's one vote may in some cases require >>> internal >>> coordination to determine who will cast the vote. If a second >>> individual >>> attempts to vote, they will receive notification that their >>> organization >>> has already voted and they will not be able to cast a ballot. >>> >>> ARIN is seeking input from the community regarding this potential >>> change, including whether it would be beneficial and if made, >>> whether >>> voting eligibility should be provided to Admin POCs or Admin and >>> Tech POCs. >>> You can read background on ARIN's existing processes of DMRs at: >>> >>> https://www.arin.net/about_us/membership/dmr.html [1] >>> >>> You can read about ARIN's current Board and Advisory Council >>> Election >>> voting process at: >>> >>> >>> https://www.arin.net/participate/elections/elec_procedures.html#voting >>> [2] >>> >>> Relevant Statistics: >>> >>> 89% of ARIN Members currently have a web account linked to either >>> their Admin or Tech POC handle. >>> >>> 85% of ARIN Members currently have a web account linked to their >>> Admin POC handle. >>> >>> In the 2012 elections 87% of Member organizations had a DMR that >>> was eligible to vote. >>> >>> Please provide comments to arin-discuss at arin.net. >>> >>> Discussion will close on 12 February 2013. ARIN seeks clear >>> direction >>> from its members, so your feedback is important. If you have any >>> questions, please contact us at info at arin.net. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Communications and Member Services >>> American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN) >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> ARIN-Discuss >>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to >>> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). >>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >>> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss [3] >>> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. >> _______________________________________________ >> ARIN-Discuss >> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to >> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). >> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss [3] >> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. > > Regards, > Jeremy Anthony Kinsey > > Bella Mia, Inc. > Quality Web Hosting and > Dedicated Servers since 1997 > > Hosting: http://hostinglizard.com [4] > Servers http://www.hostdrive.com [5] > Tel: 262-248-6759 Fax: 262-248-6959 > > > Links: > ------ > [1] https://www.arin.net/about_us/membership/dmr.html > [2] > https://www.arin.net/participate/elections/elec_procedures.html#voting > [3] http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss > [4] http://hostinglizard.com > [5] http://www.hostdrive.com > > _______________________________________________ > ARIN-Discuss > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to > the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss > Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. _______________________________________________ ARIN-Discuss You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. From josmon at rigozsaurus.com Tue Jan 15 15:39:28 2013 From: josmon at rigozsaurus.com (John Osmon) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 13:39:28 -0700 Subject: [arin-discuss] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility for ARIN Member Organizations In-Reply-To: References: <50F57EE1.5050201@arin.net> <53762DB6-C26C-4CF1-AA3B-FFDDE1DEB05B@mt-opticom.com> <1aebc98d58aa85d89980afe15a42e6f3@robertmarder.com> Message-ID: <20130115203928.GR20505@jeeves.rigozsaurus.com> On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 07:50:17PM +0000, DOWELL, JERRY (CTR) wrote: > Why not provide for the admin/dmr for the organization proxy a other > person within his/her organization to vote for them on a specific > election? Why stop there? Why not allow people outside of their organization to hold that proxy? I'm willing to act as DMR for any organization that wants to delegate such to me... From bantia at ArrowstreetCapital.com Tue Jan 15 15:48:06 2013 From: bantia at ArrowstreetCapital.com (Bob Antia) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 20:48:06 +0000 Subject: [arin-discuss] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility for ARIN Member Organizations In-Reply-To: <20130115203928.GR20505@jeeves.rigozsaurus.com> References: <50F57EE1.5050201@arin.net> <53762DB6-C26C-4CF1-AA3B-FFDDE1DEB05B@mt-opticom.com> <1aebc98d58aa85d89980afe15a42e6f3@robertmarder.com> <20130115203928.GR20505@jeeves.rigozsaurus.com> Message-ID: I agree, why not let an organization delegate a DMR. -B -----Original Message----- From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of John Osmon Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 3:39 PM To: DOWELL, JERRY (CTR) Cc: arin-discuss at arin.net Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility for ARIN Member Organizations On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 07:50:17PM +0000, DOWELL, JERRY (CTR) wrote: > Why not provide for the admin/dmr for the organization proxy a other > person within his/her organization to vote for them on a specific > election? Why stop there? Why not allow people outside of their organization to hold that proxy? I'm willing to act as DMR for any organization that wants to delegate such to me... _______________________________________________ ARIN-Discuss You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. ------------------------------------------------------------- This email message and its attachments are being sent by Arrowstreet Capital, Limited Partnership and are confidential and proprietary. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us immediately by replying to this message and destroy all copies of this message and any attachments. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- From owen at delong.com Tue Jan 15 16:00:49 2013 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 11:00:49 -1000 Subject: [arin-discuss] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility for ARIN Member Organizations In-Reply-To: References: <50F57EE1.5050201@arin.net> <53762DB6-C26C-4CF1-AA3B-FFDDE1DEB05B@mt-opticom.com> <1aebc98d58aa85d89980afe15a42e6f3@robertmarder.com> <20130115203928.GR20505@jeeves.rigozsaurus.com> Message-ID: An organization can already designate a DMR outside of the organization. 1. Add sad DMR's POC handle as a listed contact. 2. Designate said POC as your DMR. What would be new/novel is the potential to do this on a per-election basis (which I would support). I think it would also be useful to create a new contact category for consultants/advisors/DMR-only type roles where said POC is not visible in whois, but has access rights granted by the organization to do one or more of: [ ] request resources [ ] update resource information [ ] update ORG information [ ] manage POCs related to ORG [ ] manage resource POCs [ ] act as DMR (permanent) [ ] act as DMR (in the next election) Owen Sent from my iPad On Jan 15, 2013, at 10:48 AM, Bob Antia wrote: > I agree, why not let an organization delegate a DMR. > > -B > > -----Original Message----- > From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of John Osmon > Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 3:39 PM > To: DOWELL, JERRY (CTR) > Cc: arin-discuss at arin.net > Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility for ARIN Member Organizations > > On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 07:50:17PM +0000, DOWELL, JERRY (CTR) wrote: >> Why not provide for the admin/dmr for the organization proxy a other >> person within his/her organization to vote for them on a specific >> election? > > Why stop there? Why not allow people outside of their organization to hold that proxy? > > I'm willing to act as DMR for any organization that wants to delegate such to me... > _______________________________________________ > ARIN-Discuss > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss > Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. > ------------------------------------------------------------- > This email message and its attachments are being sent by > Arrowstreet Capital, Limited Partnership and are > confidential and proprietary. If you are not the intended > recipient, please notify us immediately by replying to this > message and destroy all copies of this message and any > attachments. Thank you. > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > ARIN-Discuss > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to > the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss > Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. From john at citylinkfiber.com Tue Jan 15 16:16:14 2013 From: john at citylinkfiber.com (John Brown) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 21:16:14 +0000 Subject: [arin-discuss] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility for ARIN Member Organizations In-Reply-To: References: <50F57EE1.5050201@arin.net> <53762DB6-C26C-4CF1-AA3B-FFDDE1DEB05B@mt-opticom.com> <1aebc98d58aa85d89980afe15a42e6f3@robertmarder.com> <20130115203928.GR20505@jeeves.rigozsaurus.com> Message-ID: What data has been collected that tells us why people don't vote ?? If voter turnout limited because of member corporate policy, ????? > -----Original Message----- > From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-discuss- > bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of Owen DeLong > Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 2:01 PM > To: Bob Antia > Cc: arin-discuss at arin.net > Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility > for ARIN Member Organizations > > An organization can already designate a DMR outside of the organization. > > 1. Add sad DMR's POC handle as a listed contact. > 2. Designate said POC as your DMR. > > What would be new/novel is the potential to do this on a per-election basis > (which I would support). > > I think it would also be useful to create a new contact category for > consultants/advisors/DMR-only type roles where said POC is not visible in > whois, but has access rights granted by the organization to do one or more > of: > [ ] request resources > [ ] update resource information > [ ] update ORG information > [ ] manage POCs related to ORG > [ ] manage resource POCs > [ ] act as DMR (permanent) > [ ] act as DMR (in the next election) > > Owen > > > Sent from my iPad > > On Jan 15, 2013, at 10:48 AM, Bob Antia > wrote: > > > I agree, why not let an organization delegate a DMR. > > > > -B > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net > > [mailto:arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of John Osmon > > Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 3:39 PM > > To: DOWELL, JERRY (CTR) > > Cc: arin-discuss at arin.net > > Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter > > Eligibility for ARIN Member Organizations > > > > On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 07:50:17PM +0000, DOWELL, JERRY (CTR) wrote: > >> Why not provide for the admin/dmr for the organization proxy a other > >> person within his/her organization to vote for them on a specific > >> election? > > > > Why stop there? Why not allow people outside of their organization to > hold that proxy? > > > > I'm willing to act as DMR for any organization that wants to delegate such to > me... > > _______________________________________________ > > ARIN-Discuss > > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN > Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). > > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > > http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss > > Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > This email message and its attachments are being sent by Arrowstreet > > Capital, Limited Partnership and are confidential and proprietary. If > > you are not the intended recipient, please notify us immediately by > > replying to this message and destroy all copies of this message and > > any attachments. Thank you. > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > ARIN-Discuss > > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN > > Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). > > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > > http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss > > Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. > _______________________________________________ > ARIN-Discuss > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN > Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss > Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. From jrdolan at mt-opticom.com Tue Jan 15 16:30:51 2013 From: jrdolan at mt-opticom.com (Jim Dolan Jr) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 14:30:51 -0700 Subject: [arin-discuss] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility for ARIN Member Organizations In-Reply-To: <50F5AFD5.60507@indiana.edu> References: <50F57EE1.5050201@arin.net> <1EF681E8-40C4-4F43-B21D-B67F613A6FBB@delong.com> <50F5AFD5.60507@indiana.edu> Message-ID: <50809918-3D18-4371-BE94-7333DBB1D40A@mt-opticom.com> Brent, is that not basically what the DMR role is, a designated rep of an org. I may be mistaken but a DMR can be changed at any point. Also as for the group of 10 to 15 percent of orgs that do not have a DMR that is a choice the respective org makes. They can set one up if they wanted to, just as they could set up a tech POC. I have voted in the past and I have not voted in other arin elections. Some years candidates or issues matter to me or my company, while in other years it does not. Long way of saying making more people able to vote does not increase participation. I am not in favor of this change. In fact one way to look at a 10 percent voting participation may be that 90 percent are content with how arin is, and do not feel the need to vote to change anything. Jim On Jan 15, 2013, at 12:40 PM, "Brent Sweeny" wrote: > I applaud the goal of increasing participation in ARIN elections (and am > also curious about the participation rate of DMRs from the 87% of orgs > who have DMRs--among all the other statistics given, that one would have > been very useful and was prominently absent), but I agree with what I > think is the set of objections to the new proposal for what appears to > be a sort of uncoordinated ad-hoc voting method open to > intra-organization conflict. > How about if the org's admin POC(s) pre-designated a subset of the org's > POCs, either admin or tech, as 'candidate' voters, among whom any of > them could cast the org's vote? would that, perhaps, meet the objective > and help meet the concerns of objectors? just a thought. > > Brent Sweeny, Indiana University > _______________________________________________ > ARIN-Discuss > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to > the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss > Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sweeny at indiana.edu Tue Jan 15 16:40:31 2013 From: sweeny at indiana.edu (Brent Sweeny) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 11:40:31 -1000 Subject: [arin-discuss] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility for ARIN Member Organizations In-Reply-To: <50809918-3D18-4371-BE94-7333DBB1D40A@mt-opticom.com> References: <50F57EE1.5050201@arin.net> <1EF681E8-40C4-4F43-B21D-B67F613A6FBB@delong.com> <50F5AFD5.60507@indiana.edu> <50809918-3D18-4371-BE94-7333DBB1D40A@mt-opticom.com> Message-ID: <50F5CCCF.6040307@indiana.edu> yes, certainly the DMR is an instance of an org designating someone to vote. What I was trying to accomplish with my suggestion was in the spirit of what I thought was Owen's good suggestion that by expanding the number of people who *could* represent an org in their votes, we could (probably) increase participation. Yes, of course some elections don't rise to the level of interest or hot-button issues that motivate more voting; so as elsewhere, the people who *do* vote influence the direction ARIN takes, and the orgs who didn't vote can't complain. But generally it still seems (to me) that a higher level of participation, especially to the extent that it's representative of the diverse membership, is a Good Thing. brent On 1/15/2013 11:30 AM, Jim Dolan Jr wrote: > Brent, is that not basically what the DMR role is, a designated rep of an org. I may be mistaken but a DMR can be changed at any point. > > Also as for the group of 10 to 15 percent of orgs that do not have a DMR that is a choice the respective org makes. They can set one up if they wanted to, just as they could set up a tech POC. > > I have voted in the past and I have not voted in other arin elections. Some years candidates or issues matter to me or my company, while in other years it does not. > > Long way of saying making more people able to vote does not increase participation. I am not in favor of this change. In fact one way to look at a 10 percent voting participation may be that 90 percent are content with how arin is, and do not feel the need to vote to change anything. > > Jim > > > > On Jan 15, 2013, at 12:40 PM, "Brent Sweeny" wrote: > >> I applaud the goal of increasing participation in ARIN elections (and am >> also curious about the participation rate of DMRs from the 87% of orgs >> who have DMRs--among all the other statistics given, that one would have >> been very useful and was prominently absent), but I agree with what I >> think is the set of objections to the new proposal for what appears to >> be a sort of uncoordinated ad-hoc voting method open to >> intra-organization conflict. >> How about if the org's admin POC(s) pre-designated a subset of the org's >> POCs, either admin or tech, as 'candidate' voters, among whom any of >> them could cast the org's vote? would that, perhaps, meet the objective >> and help meet the concerns of objectors? just a thought. >> >> Brent Sweeny, Indiana University >> _______________________________________________ >> ARIN-Discuss >> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to >> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). >> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss >> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. > > > > _______________________________________________ > ARIN-Discuss > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to > the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss > Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. > From josmon at rigozsaurus.com Tue Jan 15 16:55:14 2013 From: josmon at rigozsaurus.com (John Osmon) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 14:55:14 -0700 Subject: [arin-discuss] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility for ARIN Member Organizations In-Reply-To: References: <50F57EE1.5050201@arin.net> <53762DB6-C26C-4CF1-AA3B-FFDDE1DEB05B@mt-opticom.com> <1aebc98d58aa85d89980afe15a42e6f3@robertmarder.com> <20130115203928.GR20505@jeeves.rigozsaurus.com> Message-ID: <20130115215514.GU20505@jeeves.rigozsaurus.com> I like this idea. In the past I've been asked to be a DMR for multiple entities. This would have worked well in those situations. On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 11:00:49AM -1000, Owen DeLong wrote: > An organization can already designate a DMR outside of the organization. > > 1. Add sad DMR's POC handle as a listed contact. > 2. Designate said POC as your DMR. > > What would be new/novel is the potential to do this on a per-election basis (which I would support). > > I think it would also be useful to create a new contact category for consultants/advisors/DMR-only type roles where said POC is not visible in whois, but has access rights granted by the organization to do one or more of: > [ ] request resources > [ ] update resource information > [ ] update ORG information > [ ] manage POCs related to ORG > [ ] manage resource POCs > [ ] act as DMR (permanent) > [ ] act as DMR (in the next election) > > Owen > > > Sent from my iPad > > On Jan 15, 2013, at 10:48 AM, Bob Antia wrote: > > > I agree, why not let an organization delegate a DMR. > > > > -B > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of John Osmon > > Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 3:39 PM > > To: DOWELL, JERRY (CTR) > > Cc: arin-discuss at arin.net > > Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility for ARIN Member Organizations > > > > On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 07:50:17PM +0000, DOWELL, JERRY (CTR) wrote: > >> Why not provide for the admin/dmr for the organization proxy a other > >> person within his/her organization to vote for them on a specific > >> election? > > > > Why stop there? Why not allow people outside of their organization to hold that proxy? > > > > I'm willing to act as DMR for any organization that wants to delegate such to me... > > _______________________________________________ > > ARIN-Discuss > > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). > > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > > http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss > > Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > This email message and its attachments are being sent by > > Arrowstreet Capital, Limited Partnership and are > > confidential and proprietary. If you are not the intended > > recipient, please notify us immediately by replying to this > > message and destroy all copies of this message and any > > attachments. Thank you. > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > ARIN-Discuss > > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to > > the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). > > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > > http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss > > Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. From josmon at rigozsaurus.com Tue Jan 15 17:02:23 2013 From: josmon at rigozsaurus.com (John Osmon) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 15:02:23 -0700 Subject: [arin-discuss] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility for ARIN Member Organizations In-Reply-To: <50809918-3D18-4371-BE94-7333DBB1D40A@mt-opticom.com> References: <50F57EE1.5050201@arin.net> <1EF681E8-40C4-4F43-B21D-B67F613A6FBB@delong.com> <50F5AFD5.60507@indiana.edu> <50809918-3D18-4371-BE94-7333DBB1D40A@mt-opticom.com> Message-ID: <20130115220223.GV20505@jeeves.rigozsaurus.com> On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 02:30:51PM -0700, Jim Dolan Jr wrote: [...] > Long way of saying making more people able to vote does not increase > participation. I am not in favor of this change. In fact one way to look > at a 10 percent voting participation may be that 90 percent are content > with how arin is, and do not feel the need to vote to change anything. There are members who don't vote because they don't think they have enough info. I've had such members indicate that they wished they could delegate such voting to me. If the goal is to increase voting, allowing this type of proxy would do that! From john at citylinkfiber.com Tue Jan 15 17:06:27 2013 From: john at citylinkfiber.com (John Brown) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 22:06:27 +0000 Subject: [arin-discuss] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility for ARIN Member Organizations In-Reply-To: <20130115220223.GV20505@jeeves.rigozsaurus.com> References: <50F57EE1.5050201@arin.net> <1EF681E8-40C4-4F43-B21D-B67F613A6FBB@delong.com> <50F5AFD5.60507@indiana.edu> <50809918-3D18-4371-BE94-7333DBB1D40A@mt-opticom.com> <20130115220223.GV20505@jeeves.rigozsaurus.com> Message-ID: What information are they lacking? Or a whole bunch of smaller entities could become subject to "vote" capture by delegating > -----Original Message----- > From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-discuss- > bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of John Osmon > Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 3:02 PM > To: Jim Dolan Jr > Cc: arin-discuss at arin.net > Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility > for ARIN Member Organizations > > On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 02:30:51PM -0700, Jim Dolan Jr wrote: > [...] > > Long way of saying making more people able to vote does not increase > > participation. I am not in favor of this change. In fact one way to look > > at a 10 percent voting participation may be that 90 percent are content > > with how arin is, and do not feel the need to vote to change anything. > > There are members who don't vote because they don't think they have > enough info. I've had such members indicate that they wished they could > delegate such voting to me. > > If the goal is to increase voting, allowing this type of proxy would do that! > _______________________________________________ > ARIN-Discuss > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN > Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss > Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. From terry at wigginstel.com Tue Jan 15 17:35:09 2013 From: terry at wigginstel.com (Terry Hendrickson) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 15:35:09 -0700 Subject: [arin-discuss] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility for ARIN Member Organizations In-Reply-To: <50809918-3D18-4371-BE94-7333DBB1D40A@mt-opticom.com> References: <50F57EE1.5050201@arin.net> <1EF681E8-40C4-4F43-B21D-B67F613A6FBB@delong.com> <50F5AFD5.60507@indiana.edu> <50809918-3D18-4371-BE94-7333DBB1D40A@mt-opticom.com> Message-ID: <000801cdf370$93753070$ba5f9150$@com> All, The organization I serve as DMR does not have a long history of membership in ARIN, so I?m not aware of any history of issues within the organization. That said I favor the direction of Jim?s comments, if there were issues the non-voting 90% would no doubt be up in arms and participating. If such an issue were to rise to the level, those carrying the discussion for change have the means to bring the issue to the attention of the electorate and state their cause. I am opposed to making a change at this point. Terry From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of Jim Dolan Jr Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 2:31 PM To: arin-discuss at arin.net Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility for ARIN Member Organizations Brent, is that not basically what the DMR role is, a designated rep of an org. I may be mistaken but a DMR can be changed at any point. Also as for the group of 10 to 15 percent of orgs that do not have a DMR that is a choice the respective org makes. They can set one up if they wanted to, just as they could set up a tech POC. I have voted in the past and I have not voted in other arin elections. Some years candidates or issues matter to me or my company, while in other years it does not. Long way of saying making more people able to vote does not increase participation. I am not in favor of this change. In fact one way to look at a 10 percent voting participation may be that 90 percent are content with how arin is, and do not feel the need to vote to change anything. Jim On Jan 15, 2013, at 12:40 PM, "Brent Sweeny" wrote: I applaud the goal of increasing participation in ARIN elections (and am also curious about the participation rate of DMRs from the 87% of orgs who have DMRs--among all the other statistics given, that one would have been very useful and was prominently absent), but I agree with what I think is the set of objections to the new proposal for what appears to be a sort of uncoordinated ad-hoc voting method open to intra-organization conflict. How about if the org's admin POC(s) pre-designated a subset of the org's POCs, either admin or tech, as 'candidate' voters, among whom any of them could cast the org's vote? would that, perhaps, meet the objective and help meet the concerns of objectors? just a thought. Brent Sweeny, Indiana University _______________________________________________ ARIN-Discuss You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dk at intuix.com Tue Jan 15 17:47:57 2013 From: dk at intuix.com (Dmitry Kohmanyuk) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 23:47:57 +0100 Subject: [arin-discuss] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility for ARIN Member Organizations In-Reply-To: References: <50F57EE1.5050201@arin.net> <1EF681E8-40C4-4F43-B21D-B67F613A6FBB@delong.com> Message-ID: <6882EE70-FA88-4D76-A51A-99846934EED6@intuix.com> On Jan 15, 2013, at 8:06 PM, Matthew Wilder wrote: > I share the same concern as Owen. Perhaps one way of recognizing the current structure and delegated power of the DMRs within active organizations is to allow votes from any POC while explicitly noting that DMR trumps if they participate. This seems to be an easy best-of-both worlds compromise. In other words, if the DMR is active and votes, their vote represents their OrgID. If they don't vote, it goes to any POC who took the time to vote. > I agree with Matthew on this -- "first to the poll wins" is not right. "DMR trumps, all other POCs can run" is better, but why should ARIN focus on having maximum number of votes cast at expense of possible vote going awry? Repeating Owen's point, additional management overheard of disallowing those currently non-voting POCs is a real cost. Statistically, (big enough) random subset of voters is going to vote roughly same way of total population of voters (if independent.) So unless there is some kind of hidden conflict between DMRs and other POCs (DMRs would rather abstain, whereas POCs are eager to vote differently if only they are allowed) I do not see any benefit of this change. My proposal: Designating "backup DMR" if community supports it. There should not be more than one though. Main DMR wins. -- dk@ > Matthew > > On Tues, Jan 15, 2012 at 12:44 AM, Owen DeLong wrote: > >> I oppose the change. >> >> It would create ambiguity and a race condition where an organization would have to apply additional management constraints on who was a designated POC in order to prevent the possibility of vote tampering. >> >> I would support allowing the admin contact to radio-button the DMR in the ARIN-ONLINE interface. >> >> Owen >> >> On Jan 15, 2013, at 8:08 AM, ARIN wrote: >> >>> ARIN is seeking feedback from its membership about changing voting >>> eligibility so that any ARIN web account linked to an Admin and/or >>> Tech POC of a Member organization may cast the ballot for the >>> organization's one vote in ARIN elections. This change would replace >>> the Designated Member Representative (DMR) role in the ARIN elections >>> and allow organizations to have more that one eligible voter. There >>> is no change to the one vote per Organization ID rule. >>> We are suggesting this change in order to increase participation in >>> ARIN elections. This change would: >>> >>> * Allow organizations to have more than one eligible voter, thereby >>> increasing the chances that someone would be available to cast a >>> ballot >>> >>> * Eliminate the need for Members to create and update the DMR POC >>> with its specialized email requirements >>> >>> Note: The benefit of allowing more than one individual the ability >>> to cast the organization's one vote may in some cases require internal >>> coordination to determine who will cast the vote. If a second >>> individual attempts to vote, they will receive notification that their >>> organization has already voted and they will not be able to cast a ballot. >>> >>> ARIN is seeking input from the community regarding this potential >>> change, including whether it would be beneficial and if made, whether >>> voting eligibility should be provided to Admin POCs or Admin and Tech POCs. >>> You can read background on ARIN's existing processes of DMRs at: >>> >>> https://www.arin.net/about_us/membership/dmr.html >>> >>> You can read about ARIN's current Board and Advisory Council Election >>> voting process at: >>> >>> https://www.arin.net/participate/elections/elec_procedures.html#voting >>> >>> Relevant Statistics: >>> >>> 89% of ARIN Members currently have a web account linked to either >>> their Admin or Tech POC handle. >>> >>> 85% of ARIN Members currently have a web account linked to their >>> Admin POC handle. >>> >>> In the 2012 elections 87% of Member organizations had a DMR that >>> was eligible to vote. >>> >>> Please provide comments to arin-discuss at arin.net. >>> >>> Discussion will close on 12 February 2013. ARIN seeks clear direction >>> from its members, so your feedback is important. If you have any >>> questions, please contact us at info at arin.net. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Communications and Member Services >>> American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN) >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> ARIN-Discuss >>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN >>> Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). >>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >>> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss >>> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. >> ______________________________________________ >> ARIN-Discuss >> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). >> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss >> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. > _______________________________________________ > ARIN-Discuss > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to > the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss > Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. From jesse at la-broadband.com Tue Jan 15 16:08:19 2013 From: jesse at la-broadband.com (Jesse D. Geddis) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 21:08:19 +0000 Subject: [arin-discuss] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility for ARIN Member Organizations In-Reply-To: References: <50F57EE1.5050201@arin.net> <53762DB6-C26C-4CF1-AA3B-FFDDE1DEB05B@mt-opticom.com> <1aebc98d58aa85d89980afe15a42e6f3@robertmarder.com> <20130115203928.GR20505@jeeves.rigozsaurus.com> , Message-ID: <1C7FF218-7722-48D0-BEC9-C901C09825A6@la-broadband.com> I don't think this is a good idea because it would further skew the boards way to heavily to a couple organisations. It's bad enough and I can foresee service providers asking their customers for their voting rights to gain even more disproportionate influence over resource policy in their favour. It's a power grab... Jesse Geddis LA Broadband LLC On Jan 15, 2013, at 1:04 PM, "Owen DeLong" wrote: > An organization can already designate a DMR outside of the organization. > > 1. Add sad DMR's POC handle as a listed contact. > 2. Designate said POC as your DMR. > > What would be new/novel is the potential to do this on a per-election basis (which I would support). > > I think it would also be useful to create a new contact category for consultants/advisors/DMR-only type roles where said POC is not visible in whois, but has access rights granted by the organization to do one or more of: > [ ] request resources > [ ] update resource information > [ ] update ORG information > [ ] manage POCs related to ORG > [ ] manage resource POCs > [ ] act as DMR (permanent) > [ ] act as DMR (in the next election) > > Owen > > > Sent from my iPad > > On Jan 15, 2013, at 10:48 AM, Bob Antia wrote: > >> I agree, why not let an organization delegate a DMR. >> >> -B >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of John Osmon >> Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 3:39 PM >> To: DOWELL, JERRY (CTR) >> Cc: arin-discuss at arin.net >> Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility for ARIN Member Organizations >> >> On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 07:50:17PM +0000, DOWELL, JERRY (CTR) wrote: >>> Why not provide for the admin/dmr for the organization proxy a other >>> person within his/her organization to vote for them on a specific >>> election? >> >> Why stop there? Why not allow people outside of their organization to hold that proxy? >> >> I'm willing to act as DMR for any organization that wants to delegate such to me... >> _______________________________________________ >> ARIN-Discuss >> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). >> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss >> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. >> ------------------------------------------------------------- >> This email message and its attachments are being sent by >> Arrowstreet Capital, Limited Partnership and are >> confidential and proprietary. If you are not the intended >> recipient, please notify us immediately by replying to this >> message and destroy all copies of this message and any >> attachments. Thank you. >> ------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ARIN-Discuss >> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to >> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). >> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss >> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. > _______________________________________________ > ARIN-Discuss > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to > the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss > Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. From jesse at la-broadband.com Tue Jan 15 15:55:36 2013 From: jesse at la-broadband.com (Jesse D. Geddis) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 20:55:36 +0000 Subject: [arin-discuss] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility for ARIN Member Organizations In-Reply-To: <20130115203928.GR20505@jeeves.rigozsaurus.com> References: <50F57EE1.5050201@arin.net> <53762DB6-C26C-4CF1-AA3B-FFDDE1DEB05B@mt-opticom.com> <1aebc98d58aa85d89980afe15a42e6f3@robertmarder.com> , <20130115203928.GR20505@jeeves.rigozsaurus.com> Message-ID: I know we never stay on topic but I think it's worth mentioning that only ISP allocations were allowed to vote in the last election. I got several emails from folks who tried to vote for me but were denied by ARIN because of this. I don't know what the purpose of this restriction is but it seems arbitrary. Jesse Geddis LA Broadband LLC On Jan 15, 2013, at 12:47 PM, "John Osmon" wrote: > On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 07:50:17PM +0000, DOWELL, JERRY (CTR) wrote: >> Why not provide for the admin/dmr for the organization proxy a other >> person within his/her organization to vote for them on a specific >> election? > > Why stop there? Why not allow people outside of their organization to > hold that proxy? > > I'm willing to act as DMR for any organization that wants to delegate > such to me... > _______________________________________________ > ARIN-Discuss > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to > the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss > Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. From jesse at la-broadband.com Tue Jan 15 16:53:24 2013 From: jesse at la-broadband.com (Jesse D. Geddis) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 21:53:24 +0000 Subject: [arin-discuss] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility for ARIN Member Organizations In-Reply-To: <50F5CCCF.6040307@indiana.edu> References: <50F57EE1.5050201@arin.net> <1EF681E8-40C4-4F43-B21D-B67F613A6FBB@delong.com> <50F5AFD5.60507@indiana.edu> <50809918-3D18-4371-BE94-7333DBB1D40A@mt-opticom.com>, <50F5CCCF.6040307@indiana.edu> Message-ID: <44B1CF81-899F-4EAB-9C87-329FC4175D8C@la-broadband.com> Brent, Your saying you want to increase participation by giving single people more votes. I'm not sure how that accomplishes that goal on any level. Jesse Geddis LA Broadband LLC (626) 675-3176 ASN 16602 On Jan 15, 2013, at 1:41 PM, "Brent Sweeny" wrote: > yes, certainly the DMR is an instance of an org designating someone to > vote. What I was trying to accomplish with my suggestion was in the > spirit of what I thought was Owen's good suggestion that by expanding > the number of people who *could* represent an org in their votes, we > could (probably) increase participation. > Yes, of course some elections don't rise to the level of interest or > hot-button issues that motivate more voting; so as elsewhere, the people > who *do* vote influence the direction ARIN takes, and the orgs who > didn't vote can't complain. But generally it still seems (to me) that a > higher level of participation, especially to the extent that it's > representative of the diverse membership, is a Good Thing. > brent > > On 1/15/2013 11:30 AM, Jim Dolan Jr wrote: >> Brent, is that not basically what the DMR role is, a designated rep of an org. I may be mistaken but a DMR can be changed at any point. >> >> Also as for the group of 10 to 15 percent of orgs that do not have a DMR that is a choice the respective org makes. They can set one up if they wanted to, just as they could set up a tech POC. >> >> I have voted in the past and I have not voted in other arin elections. Some years candidates or issues matter to me or my company, while in other years it does not. >> >> Long way of saying making more people able to vote does not increase participation. I am not in favor of this change. In fact one way to look at a 10 percent voting participation may be that 90 percent are content with how arin is, and do not feel the need to vote to change anything. >> >> Jim >> >> >> >> On Jan 15, 2013, at 12:40 PM, "Brent Sweeny" wrote: >> >>> I applaud the goal of increasing participation in ARIN elections (and am >>> also curious about the participation rate of DMRs from the 87% of orgs >>> who have DMRs--among all the other statistics given, that one would have >>> been very useful and was prominently absent), but I agree with what I >>> think is the set of objections to the new proposal for what appears to >>> be a sort of uncoordinated ad-hoc voting method open to >>> intra-organization conflict. >>> How about if the org's admin POC(s) pre-designated a subset of the org's >>> POCs, either admin or tech, as 'candidate' voters, among whom any of >>> them could cast the org's vote? would that, perhaps, meet the objective >>> and help meet the concerns of objectors? just a thought. >>> >>> Brent Sweeny, Indiana University >>> _______________________________________________ >>> ARIN-Discuss >>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to >>> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). >>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >>> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss >>> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ARIN-Discuss >> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to >> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). >> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss >> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. > _______________________________________________ > ARIN-Discuss > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to > the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss > Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. From owen at delong.com Tue Jan 15 17:58:22 2013 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 12:58:22 -1000 Subject: [arin-discuss] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility for ARIN Member Organizations In-Reply-To: <20130115220223.GV20505@jeeves.rigozsaurus.com> References: <50F57EE1.5050201@arin.net> <1EF681E8-40C4-4F43-B21D-B67F613A6FBB@delong.com> <50F5AFD5.60507@indiana.edu> <50809918-3D18-4371-BE94-7333DBB1D40A@mt-opticom.com> <20130115220223.GV20505@jeeves.rigozsaurus.com> Message-ID: <08C1D10C-CA89-4E60-826A-4A358784F5B0@delong.com> They can, in fact, delegate such voting to you or to anyone else they choose. That is already the case. Owen Sent from my iPad On Jan 15, 2013, at 12:02 PM, John Osmon wrote: > On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 02:30:51PM -0700, Jim Dolan Jr wrote: > [...] >> Long way of saying making more people able to vote does not increase >> participation. I am not in favor of this change. In fact one way to look >> at a 10 percent voting participation may be that 90 percent are content >> with how arin is, and do not feel the need to vote to change anything. > > There are members who don't vote because they don't think they have > enough info. I've had such members indicate that they wished they could > delegate such voting to me. > > If the goal is to increase voting, allowing this type of proxy would do > that! > _______________________________________________ > ARIN-Discuss > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to > the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss > Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. From Matthew.Wilder at telus.com Tue Jan 15 18:11:52 2013 From: Matthew.Wilder at telus.com (Matthew Wilder) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 16:11:52 -0700 Subject: [arin-discuss] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility for ARIN Member Organizations In-Reply-To: <1C7FF218-7722-48D0-BEC9-C901C09825A6@la-broadband.com> References: <50F57EE1.5050201@arin.net> <53762DB6-C26C-4CF1-AA3B-FFDDE1DEB05B@mt-opticom.com> <1aebc98d58aa85d89980afe15a42e6f3@robertmarder.com> <20130115203928.GR20505@jeeves.rigozsaurus.com> , <1C7FF218-7722-48D0-BEC9-C901C09825A6@la-broadband.com> Message-ID: Being myself a DMR and generally a representative of a large ISP, I beg to differ. The system we operate in is much more inclined to represent the large number of small entities than the small number of large entities. Like the ITU (the same body which many ARIN and NANOG folks are petitioning Obama to remove funding from) the vote per entity model actually favors the little guys. In the case of those interested in the success of the Internet, that works well IMO, but clearly as the ITU has shown, it is very, very bad in the case where those entities care not for the good of the internet. So I don't see this giving too much power to the big ISPs necessarily, but potentially too much power to a few individuals, no matter whose interests they represent, provided they get a lot of OrgID's delegating voting power to them. Now I am curious if there are stats that can show how many DMRs represent multiple OrgIDs, and how many of the 10% participation are unique voters. May be difficult if that one individual has multiple email addresses they are using, etc. Matthew On Jan 15, 2013, at 1:08 PM, "Jesse D. Geddis" wrote: > I don't think this is a good idea because it would further skew the boards way to heavily to a couple organisations. It's bad enough and I can foresee service providers asking their customers for their voting rights to gain even more disproportionate influence over resource policy in their favour. It's a power grab... > > Jesse Geddis > LA Broadband LLC > > On Jan 15, 2013, at 1:04 PM, "Owen DeLong" wrote: > > > An organization can already designate a DMR outside of the organization. > > > > 1. Add sad DMR's POC handle as a listed contact. > > 2. Designate said POC as your DMR. > > > > What would be new/novel is the potential to do this on a per-election basis (which I would support). > > > > I think it would also be useful to create a new contact category for consultants/advisors/DMR-only type roles where said POC is not > visible in whois, but has access rights granted by the organization to do one or more of: > > [ ] request resources > > [ ] update resource information > > [ ] update ORG information > > [ ] manage POCs related to ORG > > [ ] manage resource POCs > > [ ] act as DMR (permanent) > > [ ] act as DMR (in the next election) > > > > Owen > > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > On Jan 15, 2013, at 10:48 AM, Bob Antia wrote: > > > >> I agree, why not let an organization delegate a DMR. > >> > >> -B > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net > >> [mailto:arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of John Osmon > >> Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 3:39 PM > >> To: DOWELL, JERRY (CTR) > >> Cc: arin-discuss at arin.net > >> Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter > >> Eligibility for ARIN Member Organizations > >> > >> On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 07:50:17PM +0000, DOWELL, JERRY (CTR) wrote: > >>> Why not provide for the admin/dmr for the organization proxy a other > >>> person within his/her organization to vote for them on a specific > >>> election? > >> > >> Why stop there? Why not allow people outside of their organization to hold that proxy? > >> > >> I'm willing to act as DMR for any organization that wants to delegate such to me... > >> _______________________________________________ > >> ARIN-Discuss > >> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). > >> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > >> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss > >> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. > >> ------------------------------------------------------------- > >> This email message and its attachments are being sent by Arrowstreet > >> Capital, Limited Partnership and are confidential and proprietary. > >> If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us immediately > >> by replying to this message and destroy all copies of this message > >> and any attachments. Thank you. > >> ------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> ARIN-Discuss > >> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN > >> Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). > >> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > >> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss > >> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. > > _______________________________________________ > > ARIN-Discuss > > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN > > Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). > > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > > http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss > > Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. > _______________________________________________ > ARIN-Discuss > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss > Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. From jmaimon at chl.com Tue Jan 15 18:28:44 2013 From: jmaimon at chl.com (Joe Maimon) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 18:28:44 -0500 Subject: [arin-discuss] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility for ARIN Member Organizations In-Reply-To: References: <50F57EE1.5050201@arin.net> <53762DB6-C26C-4CF1-AA3B-FFDDE1DEB05B@mt-opticom.com> <1aebc98d58aa85d89980afe15a42e6f3@robertmarder.com> <20130115203928.GR20505@jeeves.rigozsaurus.com> Message-ID: <50F5E62C.8050107@chl.com> As I recall, for one of the org's I DMR for, I was unable to make it in under the wire. Email forwarding, verification, etc. (Due to the email matching org name requirement which makes things a real pain) Of course, waiting for the proverbial last minute ups the risk of this happening, but we were pretty busy here in the northeast at the time. Best, Joe John Brown wrote: > What data has been collected that tells us why people don't vote ?? > > If voter turnout limited because of member corporate policy, ????? > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-discuss- >> bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of Owen DeLong >> Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 2:01 PM >> To: Bob Antia >> Cc: arin-discuss at arin.net >> Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility >> for ARIN Member Organizations >> >> An organization can already designate a DMR outside of the organization. >> >> 1. Add sad DMR's POC handle as a listed contact. >> 2. Designate said POC as your DMR. >> >> What would be new/novel is the potential to do this on a per-election basis >> (which I would support). >> >> I think it would also be useful to create a new contact category for >> consultants/advisors/DMR-only type roles where said POC is not visible in >> whois, but has access rights granted by the organization to do one or more >> of: >> [ ] request resources >> [ ] update resource information >> [ ] update ORG information >> [ ] manage POCs related to ORG >> [ ] manage resource POCs >> [ ] act as DMR (permanent) >> [ ] act as DMR (in the next election) >> >> Owen >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Jan 15, 2013, at 10:48 AM, Bob Antia >> wrote: >> >>> I agree, why not let an organization delegate a DMR. >>> >>> -B >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net >>> [mailto:arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of John Osmon >>> Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 3:39 PM >>> To: DOWELL, JERRY (CTR) >>> Cc: arin-discuss at arin.net >>> Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter >>> Eligibility for ARIN Member Organizations >>> >>> On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 07:50:17PM +0000, DOWELL, JERRY (CTR) wrote: >>>> Why not provide for the admin/dmr for the organization proxy a other >>>> person within his/her organization to vote for them on a specific >>>> election? >>> >>> Why stop there? Why not allow people outside of their organization to >> hold that proxy? >>> >>> I'm willing to act as DMR for any organization that wants to delegate such to >> me... >>> _______________________________________________ >>> ARIN-Discuss >>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN >> Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). >>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >>> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss >>> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. >>> ------------------------------------------------------------- >>> This email message and its attachments are being sent by Arrowstreet >>> Capital, Limited Partnership and are confidential and proprietary. If >>> you are not the intended recipient, please notify us immediately by >>> replying to this message and destroy all copies of this message and >>> any attachments. Thank you. >>> ------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> ARIN-Discuss >>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN >>> Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). >>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >>> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss >>> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. >> _______________________________________________ >> ARIN-Discuss >> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN >> Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). >> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss >> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. > _______________________________________________ > ARIN-Discuss > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to > the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss > Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. > > From jesse at la-broadband.com Tue Jan 15 18:54:59 2013 From: jesse at la-broadband.com (Jesse D. Geddis) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 23:54:59 +0000 Subject: [arin-discuss] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility for ARIN Member Organizations In-Reply-To: References: <50F57EE1.5050201@arin.net> <53762DB6-C26C-4CF1-AA3B-FFDDE1DEB05B@mt-opticom.com> <1aebc98d58aa85d89980afe15a42e6f3@robertmarder.com> <20130115203928.GR20505@jeeves.rigozsaurus.com> , <1C7FF218-7722-48D0-BEC9-C901C09825A6@la-broadband.com>, Message-ID: Your whole position is based on the assumption everyone voting for others would act in good faith. I think that's an absurd assumption given the reward for voting yourself onto a given board on the backs of your customers. It makes that far too easy and I haven't seen any argument to warrant creating such a blatant environment for fraud. Jesse Geddis LA Broadband LLC On Jan 15, 2013, at 3:10 PM, "Matthew Wilder" wrote: > Being myself a DMR and generally a representative of a large ISP, I beg to differ. The system we operate in is much more inclined to represent the large number of small entities than the small number of large entities. Like the ITU (the same body which many ARIN and NANOG folks are petitioning Obama to remove funding from) the vote per entity model actually favors the little guys. > > In the case of those interested in the success of the Internet, that works well IMO, but clearly as the ITU has shown, it is very, very bad in the case where those entities care not for the good of the internet. > > So I don't see this giving too much power to the big ISPs necessarily, but potentially too much power to a few individuals, no matter whose interests they represent, provided they get a lot of OrgID's delegating voting power to them. Now I am curious if there are stats that can show how many DMRs represent multiple OrgIDs, and how many of the 10% participation are unique voters. May be difficult if that one individual has multiple email addresses they are using, etc. > > Matthew > > On Jan 15, 2013, at 1:08 PM, "Jesse D. Geddis" wrote: > >> I don't think this is a good idea because it would further skew the boards way to heavily to a couple organisations. It's bad enough and I can foresee service providers asking their customers for their voting rights to gain even more disproportionate influence over resource policy in their favour. It's a power grab... >> >> Jesse Geddis >> LA Broadband LLC >> >> On Jan 15, 2013, at 1:04 PM, "Owen DeLong" wrote: >> >>> An organization can already designate a DMR outside of the organization. >>> >>> 1. Add sad DMR's POC handle as a listed contact. >>> 2. Designate said POC as your DMR. >>> >>> What would be new/novel is the potential to do this on a per-election basis (which I would support). >>> >>> I think it would also be useful to create a new contact category for consultants/advisors/DMR-only type roles where said POC is not > visible in whois, but has access rights granted by the organization to do one or more of: >>> [ ] request resources >>> [ ] update resource information >>> [ ] update ORG information >>> [ ] manage POCs related to ORG >>> [ ] manage resource POCs >>> [ ] act as DMR (permanent) >>> [ ] act as DMR (in the next election) >>> >>> Owen >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On Jan 15, 2013, at 10:48 AM, Bob Antia wrote: >>> >>>> I agree, why not let an organization delegate a DMR. >>>> >>>> -B >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net >>>> [mailto:arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of John Osmon >>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 3:39 PM >>>> To: DOWELL, JERRY (CTR) >>>> Cc: arin-discuss at arin.net >>>> Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter >>>> Eligibility for ARIN Member Organizations >>>> >>>> On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 07:50:17PM +0000, DOWELL, JERRY (CTR) wrote: >>>>> Why not provide for the admin/dmr for the organization proxy a other >>>>> person within his/her organization to vote for them on a specific >>>>> election? >>>> >>>> Why stop there? Why not allow people outside of their organization to hold that proxy? >>>> >>>> I'm willing to act as DMR for any organization that wants to delegate such to me... >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> ARIN-Discuss >>>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). >>>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >>>> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss >>>> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> This email message and its attachments are being sent by Arrowstreet >>>> Capital, Limited Partnership and are confidential and proprietary. >>>> If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us immediately >>>> by replying to this message and destroy all copies of this message >>>> and any attachments. Thank you. >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> ARIN-Discuss >>>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN >>>> Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). >>>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >>>> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss >>>> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> ARIN-Discuss >>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN >>> Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). >>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >>> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss >>> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. >> _______________________________________________ >> ARIN-Discuss >> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). >> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss >> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. From jer at mia.net Tue Jan 15 21:06:43 2013 From: jer at mia.net (Jeremy Anthony Kinsey) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 20:06:43 -0600 Subject: [arin-discuss] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility for ARIN Member Organizations In-Reply-To: <44DF5FDB765F4047976815D5EE2D646F760F730C7E@AUSP01VMBX06.collaborationhost.net> References: <50F57EE1.5050201@arin.net> <53762DB6-C26C-4CF1-AA3B-FFDDE1DEB05B@mt-opticom.com> <50F5B073.6080609@arin.net> <44DF5FDB765F4047976815D5EE2D646F760F730C7E@AUSP01VMBX06.collaborationhost.net> Message-ID: NOT a Voter? On Jan 15, 2013, at 1:41 PM, Manish wrote: > UNSUBSCRIBE > > > From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of ARIN > Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 11:40 AM > To: Jim Dolan Jr > Cc: arin-discuss at arin.net > Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility for ARIN Member Organizations > > Jim, > > Here are the number of dmrs who voted in the last couple of elections: > > In 2012 - > 3,735 Eligible voters* as of 10 October 2012 > *ARIN members in good standing with properly registered Designated Member Representatives on record 25 August 2012 > 386 unique member organizations cast a ballot in the Board of Trustees election. (10.334%) > 393 unique member organizations cast a ballot in the Advisory Council election. (10.522%) > > In 2011 - > 3,262 Eligible voters* as of 27 September 2011 > *ARIN members in good standing with properly registered Designated Member Representatives on record 1 January 2011 > 463 unique member organizations cast a ballot in the Board of Trustees election. (13.366%) > 487 unique member organizations cast a ballot in the Advisory Council election. (14.929%) > > Election voter information is available through announcements on the ARIN website: > > https://www.arin.net/announcements/2012/20121109.html > https://www.arin.net/announcements/2011/20111028_election.html > > Regards, > > Susan Hamlin > Director, Communications and Member Services > American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN) > > On 1/15/13 2:00 PM, Jim Dolan Jr wrote: > What percentage of the DMRs actually voted? I think this useful and helpful info in this discussion. > > Jim > > > > On Jan 15, 2013, at 9:13 AM, "ARIN" wrote: > > ARIN is seeking feedback from its membership about changing voting > eligibility so that any ARIN web account linked to an Admin and/or Tech > POC of a Member organization may cast the ballot for the organization's > one vote in ARIN elections. This change would replace the Designated > Member Representative (DMR) role in the ARIN elections and allow > organizations to have more that one eligible voter. There is no change > to the one vote per Organization ID rule. > We are suggesting this change in order to increase participation in ARIN > elections. This change would: > > * Allow organizations to have more than one eligible voter, thereby > increasing the chances that someone would be available to cast a ballot > > * Eliminate the need for Members to create and update the DMR POC > with its specialized email requirements > > Note: The benefit of allowing more than one individual the ability > to cast the organization's one vote may in some cases require internal > coordination to determine who will cast the vote. If a second individual > attempts to vote, they will receive notification that their organization > has already voted and they will not be able to cast a ballot. > > ARIN is seeking input from the community regarding this potential > change, including whether it would be beneficial and if made, whether > voting eligibility should be provided to Admin POCs or Admin and Tech POCs. > You can read background on ARIN's existing processes of DMRs at: > > https://www.arin.net/about_us/membership/dmr.html > > You can read about ARIN's current Board and Advisory Council Election > voting process at: > > https://www.arin.net/participate/elections/elec_procedures.html#voting > > Relevant Statistics: > > 89% of ARIN Members currently have a web account linked to either > their Admin or Tech POC handle. > > 85% of ARIN Members currently have a web account linked to their > Admin POC handle. > > In the 2012 elections 87% of Member organizations had a DMR that > was eligible to vote. > > Please provide comments to arin-discuss at arin.net. > > Discussion will close on 12 February 2013. ARIN seeks clear direction > from its members, so your feedback is important. If you have any > questions, please contact us at info at arin.net. > > Regards, > > Communications and Member Services > American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN) > > _______________________________________________ > ARIN-Discuss > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to > the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss > Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > ARIN-Discuss > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to > the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss > Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. > > _______________________________________________ > ARIN-Discuss > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to > the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss > Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. Regards, Jeremy Anthony Kinsey Bella Mia, Inc. Quality Web Hosting and Dedicated Servers since 1997 Hosting: http://hostinglizard.com Servers http://www.hostdrive.com Tel: 262-248-6759 Fax: 262-248-6959 From jay at impulse.net Tue Jan 15 23:50:11 2013 From: jay at impulse.net (Jay Hennigan) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 20:50:11 -0800 Subject: [arin-discuss] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility for ARIN Member Organizations In-Reply-To: References: <50F57EE1.5050201@arin.net> <1EF681E8-40C4-4F43-B21D-B67F613A6FBB@delong.com> Message-ID: <50F63183.6010508@impulse.net> On 1/15/13 11:06 AM, Matthew Wilder wrote: > I share the same concern as Owen. Perhaps one way of recognizing the current structure and delegated power of the DMRs within active organizations is to allow votes from any POC while explicitly noting that DMR trumps if they participate. This seems to be an easy best-of-both worlds compromise. In other words, if the DMR is active and votes, their vote represents their OrgID. If they don't vote, it goes to any POC who took the time to vote. This could work in some cases but doesn't completely eliminate a race condition. If multiple non-DMR POCs vote, do you take the first? Admin over Tech? Tech over Admin? Etc.... On the other hand, perhaps the low participation isn't necessarily a bad thing. Those who don't care to vote probably don't care about the governance or policies of ARIN, or they think that ARIN is doing a good job and don't have the time to research the candidates and make an informed decision. What percentage of shareholders in AT&T bother to submit their proxies? Probably less than 10% of the shareholders, but a higher percentage of the shares. Those with a large stake care about the governance. The majority of shareholders/members just want their dividend checks or their IPs to continue to be routable. "You guys make delicious sausage, but I really don't care to watch it being made" type of thought. -- Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Engineering - jay at impulse.net Impulse Advanced Communications - http://www.impulse.net/ Your local telephone and internet company - 805 884-6323 - WB6RDV From owen at delong.com Wed Jan 16 01:24:37 2013 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 20:24:37 -1000 Subject: [arin-discuss] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility for ARIN Member Organizations In-Reply-To: <1C7FF218-7722-48D0-BEC9-C901C09825A6@la-broadband.com> References: <50F57EE1.5050201@arin.net> <53762DB6-C26C-4CF1-AA3B-FFDDE1DEB05B@mt-opticom.com> <1aebc98d58aa85d89980afe15a42e6f3@robertmarder.com> <20130115203928.GR20505@jeeves.rigozsaurus.com> <1C7FF218-7722-48D0-BEC9-C901C09825A6@la-broadband.com> Message-ID: <39542CFE-03E5-48F3-8B6E-0A1587BC8C40@delong.com> Jesse, Nothing in the current process prevents them from doing this. As such, I'm not sure what you see in my proposal that makes this worse. Owen Sent from my iPad On Jan 15, 2013, at 11:08 AM, "Jesse D. Geddis" wrote: > I don't think this is a good idea because it would further skew the boards way to heavily to a couple organisations. It's bad enough and I can foresee service providers asking their customers for their voting rights to gain even more disproportionate influence over resource policy in their favour. It's a power grab... > > Jesse Geddis > LA Broadband LLC > > On Jan 15, 2013, at 1:04 PM, "Owen DeLong" wrote: > >> An organization can already designate a DMR outside of the organization. >> >> 1. Add sad DMR's POC handle as a listed contact. >> 2. Designate said POC as your DMR. >> >> What would be new/novel is the potential to do this on a per-election basis (which I would support). >> >> I think it would also be useful to create a new contact category for consultants/advisors/DMR-only type roles where said POC is not visible in whois, but has access rights granted by the organization to do one or more of: >> [ ] request resources >> [ ] update resource information >> [ ] update ORG information >> [ ] manage POCs related to ORG >> [ ] manage resource POCs >> [ ] act as DMR (permanent) >> [ ] act as DMR (in the next election) >> >> Owen >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Jan 15, 2013, at 10:48 AM, Bob Antia wrote: >> >>> I agree, why not let an organization delegate a DMR. >>> >>> -B >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of John Osmon >>> Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 3:39 PM >>> To: DOWELL, JERRY (CTR) >>> Cc: arin-discuss at arin.net >>> Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility for ARIN Member Organizations >>> >>> On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 07:50:17PM +0000, DOWELL, JERRY (CTR) wrote: >>>> Why not provide for the admin/dmr for the organization proxy a other >>>> person within his/her organization to vote for them on a specific >>>> election? >>> >>> Why stop there? Why not allow people outside of their organization to hold that proxy? >>> >>> I'm willing to act as DMR for any organization that wants to delegate such to me... >>> _______________________________________________ >>> ARIN-Discuss >>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). >>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >>> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss >>> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. >>> ------------------------------------------------------------- >>> This email message and its attachments are being sent by >>> Arrowstreet Capital, Limited Partnership and are >>> confidential and proprietary. If you are not the intended >>> recipient, please notify us immediately by replying to this >>> message and destroy all copies of this message and any >>> attachments. Thank you. >>> ------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> ARIN-Discuss >>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to >>> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). >>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >>> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss >>> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. >> _______________________________________________ >> ARIN-Discuss >> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to >> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). >> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss >> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. From drake.pallister at duraserver.com Thu Jan 17 04:20:50 2013 From: drake.pallister at duraserver.com (Drake Pallister) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 04:20:50 -0500 Subject: [arin-discuss] To List Members ARIN Consultation: Changing the VoterEligibility for ARIN Member Organizations References: <50F57EE1.5050201@arin.net> <53762DB6-C26C-4CF1-AA3B-FFDDE1DEB05B@mt-opticom.com> Message-ID: [arin-discuss] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility for ARIN Member OrganizationsHello All, Some simple thoughts relative to ARIN's request for comment. Subject: [arin-announce] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility for ARIN Member Organizations I offer only food for thought-- no great solutions and no big complaints. I have followed this thread and read wide ranges of suggestions from assigning DMR to alternate POC's such as tech, admin, and whatever; primary & secondary POC, anonymous POC's (that I think could cause confusion if a Tech or Admin POC were to be come anonymous for the purpose of DMR) But-- keep in mind that some employees have a personal POC that they will keep if they move to another job ! There are other troublesome potentials to plentiful that I might read inaccurate or unfounded problems into, so I won't even try to describe things like DMR-Brokering for profit. We're not voting for President of USA. My personal opinion is to Keep a DMR. It probably wouldn't be terrible if the member selected an existing POC to be the DMR, but who the DMR is should still stay unpublished. Keep in mind that employees often have a personal POC, and many companies do not stay on top of their administrative stuff, especially these days. You could add the space for a secondary DMR id the eligible voter chose to fill in the entry. A secondary DMR could only vote if the primary DMR did not. (maybe he /she was in the hospital or something); but a primary DMR would always override a secondary DMR. Validation of the DMR ? Perhaps that could be done by emailing (or better yet) making the voting ORG download (from the ORG's Login Management Account) a zipped/encrypted hash or checksum that he/she must include with the cast of their vote, so ARIN knows it is a valid authorization generated by the ORG itself and not a former employee who still has a personal POC listed as a DMR. Many companies are busy doing sales, marketing, programming and don't have the time to keep totally informed with the candidates' views on various issues. Such a voting ORG would likely choose an outside DMR who shares their same beliefs and viewpoints on industry issues. Therefore, I can understand an argument in favor of a proxy-type or outside DMR vote to be allowed, as long as the vote was cast with the validation zipped hash to validate the DMR is real. Hashes, keys, are utilized for email swip forms, so perhaps a slightly stronger one could be generated by the owner of the ORG and supplied to the pre-registered DMR? He/she could then even utilize a G-mail, Hotmail or other similar email account in the event there was a widespread outage an outage from a tornado, hurricane, solar flare, etc. That might even be a good reason to have a secondary DMR. As I said, I only offer some food for thought. Cutting this short, I hope I have added something of value to this conversation. ~Drake Pallister ----- Original Message ----- From: "ARIN" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 11:07 AM Subject: [arin-announce] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility for ARIN Member Organizations > ARIN is seeking feedback from its membership about changing voting > eligibility so that any ARIN web account linked to an Admin and/or Tech > POC of a Member organization may cast the ballot for the organization's > one vote in ARIN elections. This change would replace the Designated > Member Representative (DMR) role in the ARIN elections and allow > organizations to have more that one eligible voter. There is no change > to the one vote per Organization ID rule. > We are suggesting this change in order to increase participation in ARIN > elections. This change would: > > * Allow organizations to have more than one eligible voter, thereby > increasing the chances that someone would be available to cast a ballot > > * Eliminate the need for Members to create and update the DMR POC > with its specialized email requirements > > Note: The benefit of allowing more than one individual the ability > to cast the organization's one vote may in some cases require internal > coordination to determine who will cast the vote. If a second individual > attempts to vote, they will receive notification that their organization > has already voted and they will not be able to cast a ballot. > > ARIN is seeking input from the community regarding this potential > change, including whether it would be beneficial and if made, whether > voting eligibility should be provided to Admin POCs or Admin and Tech > POCs. > You can read background on ARIN's existing processes of DMRs at: > > https://www.arin.net/about_us/membership/dmr.html > > You can read about ARIN's current Board and Advisory Council Election > voting process at: > > https://www.arin.net/participate/elections/elec_procedures.html#voting > > Relevant Statistics: > > 89% of ARIN Members currently have a web account linked to either > their Admin or Tech POC handle. > > 85% of ARIN Members currently have a web account linked to their > Admin POC handle. > > In the 2012 elections 87% of Member organizations had a DMR that > was eligible to vote. > > Please provide comments to arin-discuss at arin.net. > Representatives from member organizations may subscribe to this list at: > > http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss > > Discussion will close on 12 February 2013. ARIN seeks clear direction > from its members, so your feedback is important. If you have any > questions, please contact us at info at arin.net. > > Regards, > > Communications and Member Services > American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN) > > _______________________________________________ > ARIN-Announce > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to > the ARIN Announce Mailing List (ARIN-announce at arin.net). > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-announce > Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. > From bob at FiberInternetCenter.com Thu Jan 17 11:27:16 2013 From: bob at FiberInternetCenter.com (Bob Evans) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 08:27:16 -0800 Subject: [arin-discuss] To List Members ARIN Consultation: Changing the VoterEligibility for ARIN Member Organizations In-Reply-To: References: <50F57EE1.5050201@arin.net> <53762DB6-C26C-4CF1-AA3B-FFDDE1DEB05B@mt-opticom.com> Message-ID: An elaboration on my 2 cents when this thread began. Don't change it. It adds an additional complexity to software, staffing, new dilemmas develop etc. Can also lead to billing confusion when it becomes an enabled excuse to delay collection of fees. If the "thinking" is the staff and software structure can handle such a change without any future staff duties/changes/additions give it 24 months - in my experience such a change always adds new costs. Customers/Members will never perform/follow rules/etc as you expect. Answering the phone more often will definitely be one of the new costs. bob evans > [arin-discuss] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility for ARIN > Member OrganizationsHello All, > > > Some simple thoughts relative to ARIN's request for comment. > > Subject: [arin-announce] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility > for ARIN Member Organizations > > > > I offer only food for thought-- no great solutions and no big complaints. > > > > I have followed this thread and read wide ranges of suggestions from > assigning DMR to alternate POC's such as tech, admin, and whatever; > primary > & secondary POC, anonymous POC's (that I think could cause confusion if a > Tech or Admin POC were to be come anonymous for the purpose of DMR) > > > > But-- keep in mind that some employees have a personal POC that they will > keep if they move to another job ! > > > > There are other troublesome potentials to plentiful that I might read > inaccurate or unfounded problems into, so I won't even try to describe > things like DMR-Brokering for profit. We're not voting for President of > USA. > > > > My personal opinion is to Keep a DMR. It probably wouldn't be terrible if > the member selected an existing POC to be the DMR, but who the DMR is > should still stay unpublished. Keep in mind that employees often have a > personal POC, and many companies do not stay on top of their > administrative > stuff, especially these days. > > > > You could add the space for a secondary DMR id the eligible voter chose to > fill in the entry. > > > > A secondary DMR could only vote if the primary DMR did not. (maybe he /she > was in the hospital or something); but a primary DMR would always override > a > secondary DMR. > > > > Validation of the DMR ? Perhaps that could be done by emailing (or better > yet) making the voting ORG download (from the ORG's Login Management > Account) a zipped/encrypted hash or checksum that he/she must include with > the cast of their vote, so ARIN knows it is a valid authorization > generated > by the ORG itself and not a former employee who still has a personal POC > listed as a DMR. > > > > Many companies are busy doing sales, marketing, programming and don't have > the time to keep totally informed with the candidates' views on various > issues. Such a voting ORG would likely choose an outside DMR who shares > their same beliefs and viewpoints on industry issues. Therefore, I can > understand an argument in favor of a proxy-type or outside DMR vote to be > allowed, as long as the vote was cast with the validation zipped hash to > validate the DMR is real. Hashes, keys, are utilized for email swip > forms, > so perhaps a slightly stronger one could be generated by the owner of the > ORG and supplied to the pre-registered DMR? He/she could then even utilize > a > G-mail, Hotmail or other similar email account in the event there was a > widespread outage an outage from a tornado, hurricane, solar flare, etc. > That might even be a good reason to have a secondary DMR. > > > > As I said, I only offer some food for thought. > > > > Cutting this short, I hope I have added something of value to this > conversation. > > > > ~Drake Pallister > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "ARIN" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 11:07 AM > Subject: [arin-announce] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility > for ARIN Member Organizations > > >> ARIN is seeking feedback from its membership about changing voting >> eligibility so that any ARIN web account linked to an Admin and/or Tech >> POC of a Member organization may cast the ballot for the organization's >> one vote in ARIN elections. This change would replace the Designated >> Member Representative (DMR) role in the ARIN elections and allow >> organizations to have more that one eligible voter. There is no change >> to the one vote per Organization ID rule. >> We are suggesting this change in order to increase participation in ARIN >> elections. This change would: >> >> * Allow organizations to have more than one eligible voter, thereby >> increasing the chances that someone would be available to cast a ballot >> >> * Eliminate the need for Members to create and update the DMR POC >> with its specialized email requirements >> >> Note: The benefit of allowing more than one individual the ability >> to cast the organization's one vote may in some cases require internal >> coordination to determine who will cast the vote. If a second individual >> attempts to vote, they will receive notification that their organization >> has already voted and they will not be able to cast a ballot. >> >> ARIN is seeking input from the community regarding this potential >> change, including whether it would be beneficial and if made, whether >> voting eligibility should be provided to Admin POCs or Admin and Tech >> POCs. >> You can read background on ARIN's existing processes of DMRs at: >> >> https://www.arin.net/about_us/membership/dmr.html >> >> You can read about ARIN's current Board and Advisory Council Election >> voting process at: >> >> https://www.arin.net/participate/elections/elec_procedures.html#voting >> >> Relevant Statistics: >> >> 89% of ARIN Members currently have a web account linked to either >> their Admin or Tech POC handle. >> >> 85% of ARIN Members currently have a web account linked to their >> Admin POC handle. >> >> In the 2012 elections 87% of Member organizations had a DMR that >> was eligible to vote. >> >> Please provide comments to arin-discuss at arin.net. >> Representatives from member organizations may subscribe to this list at: >> >> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss >> >> Discussion will close on 12 February 2013. ARIN seeks clear direction >> from its members, so your feedback is important. If you have any >> questions, please contact us at info at arin.net. >> >> Regards, >> >> Communications and Member Services >> American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ARIN-Announce >> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to >> the ARIN Announce Mailing List (ARIN-announce at arin.net). >> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-announce >> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. >> > > _______________________________________________ > ARIN-Discuss > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to > the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss > Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. > Bob Evans CTO 650-330-0428 ext 204 M-F 9-5 Pacific , please From gcampbelljm at yahoo.com Thu Jan 17 11:31:06 2013 From: gcampbelljm at yahoo.com (gcampbelljm at yahoo.com) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 16:31:06 +0000 Subject: [arin-discuss] To List Members ARIN Consultation: Changing the VoterEligibility for ARIN Member Organizations In-Reply-To: References: <50F57EE1.5050201@arin.net> <53762DB6-C26C-4CF1-AA3B-FFDDE1DEB05B@mt-opticom.com> Message-ID: <1950018699-1358440267-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2068672135-@b2.c9.bise6.blackberry> Definitely agree with you on this Bob. Sent from my BlackBerry? device from Digicel -----Original Message----- From: "Bob Evans" Sender: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 08:27:16 To: Drake Pallister Reply-To: bob at FiberInternetCenter.com Cc: Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] To List Members ARIN Consultation: Changing the VoterEligibility for ARIN Member Organizations An elaboration on my 2 cents when this thread began. Don't change it. It adds an additional complexity to software, staffing, new dilemmas develop etc. Can also lead to billing confusion when it becomes an enabled excuse to delay collection of fees. If the "thinking" is the staff and software structure can handle such a change without any future staff duties/changes/additions give it 24 months - in my experience such a change always adds new costs. Customers/Members will never perform/follow rules/etc as you expect. Answering the phone more often will definitely be one of the new costs. bob evans > [arin-discuss] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility for ARIN > Member OrganizationsHello All, > > > Some simple thoughts relative to ARIN's request for comment. > > Subject: [arin-announce] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility > for ARIN Member Organizations > > > > I offer only food for thought-- no great solutions and no big complaints. > > > > I have followed this thread and read wide ranges of suggestions from > assigning DMR to alternate POC's such as tech, admin, and whatever; > primary > & secondary POC, anonymous POC's (that I think could cause confusion if a > Tech or Admin POC were to be come anonymous for the purpose of DMR) > > > > But-- keep in mind that some employees have a personal POC that they will > keep if they move to another job ! > > > > There are other troublesome potentials to plentiful that I might read > inaccurate or unfounded problems into, so I won't even try to describe > things like DMR-Brokering for profit. We're not voting for President of > USA. > > > > My personal opinion is to Keep a DMR. It probably wouldn't be terrible if > the member selected an existing POC to be the DMR, but who the DMR is > should still stay unpublished. Keep in mind that employees often have a > personal POC, and many companies do not stay on top of their > administrative > stuff, especially these days. > > > > You could add the space for a secondary DMR id the eligible voter chose to > fill in the entry. > > > > A secondary DMR could only vote if the primary DMR did not. (maybe he /she > was in the hospital or something); but a primary DMR would always override > a > secondary DMR. > > > > Validation of the DMR ? Perhaps that could be done by emailing (or better > yet) making the voting ORG download (from the ORG's Login Management > Account) a zipped/encrypted hash or checksum that he/she must include with > the cast of their vote, so ARIN knows it is a valid authorization > generated > by the ORG itself and not a former employee who still has a personal POC > listed as a DMR. > > > > Many companies are busy doing sales, marketing, programming and don't have > the time to keep totally informed with the candidates' views on various > issues. Such a voting ORG would likely choose an outside DMR who shares > their same beliefs and viewpoints on industry issues. Therefore, I can > understand an argument in favor of a proxy-type or outside DMR vote to be > allowed, as long as the vote was cast with the validation zipped hash to > validate the DMR is real. Hashes, keys, are utilized for email swip > forms, > so perhaps a slightly stronger one could be generated by the owner of the > ORG and supplied to the pre-registered DMR? He/she could then even utilize > a > G-mail, Hotmail or other similar email account in the event there was a > widespread outage an outage from a tornado, hurricane, solar flare, etc. > That might even be a good reason to have a secondary DMR. > > > > As I said, I only offer some food for thought. > > > > Cutting this short, I hope I have added something of value to this > conversation. > > > > ~Drake Pallister > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "ARIN" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 11:07 AM > Subject: [arin-announce] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility > for ARIN Member Organizations > > >> ARIN is seeking feedback from its membership about changing voting >> eligibility so that any ARIN web account linked to an Admin and/or Tech >> POC of a Member organization may cast the ballot for the organization's >> one vote in ARIN elections. This change would replace the Designated >> Member Representative (DMR) role in the ARIN elections and allow >> organizations to have more that one eligible voter. There is no change >> to the one vote per Organization ID rule. >> We are suggesting this change in order to increase participation in ARIN >> elections. This change would: >> >> * Allow organizations to have more than one eligible voter, thereby >> increasing the chances that someone would be available to cast a ballot >> >> * Eliminate the need for Members to create and update the DMR POC >> with its specialized email requirements >> >> Note: The benefit of allowing more than one individual the ability >> to cast the organization's one vote may in some cases require internal >> coordination to determine who will cast the vote. If a second individual >> attempts to vote, they will receive notification that their organization >> has already voted and they will not be able to cast a ballot. >> >> ARIN is seeking input from the community regarding this potential >> change, including whether it would be beneficial and if made, whether >> voting eligibility should be provided to Admin POCs or Admin and Tech >> POCs. >> You can read background on ARIN's existing processes of DMRs at: >> >> https://www.arin.net/about_us/membership/dmr.html >> >> You can read about ARIN's current Board and Advisory Council Election >> voting process at: >> >> https://www.arin.net/participate/elections/elec_procedures.html#voting >> >> Relevant Statistics: >> >> 89% of ARIN Members currently have a web account linked to either >> their Admin or Tech POC handle. >> >> 85% of ARIN Members currently have a web account linked to their >> Admin POC handle. >> >> In the 2012 elections 87% of Member organizations had a DMR that >> was eligible to vote. >> >> Please provide comments to arin-discuss at arin.net. >> Representatives from member organizations may subscribe to this list at: >> >> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss >> >> Discussion will close on 12 February 2013. ARIN seeks clear direction >> from its members, so your feedback is important. If you have any >> questions, please contact us at info at arin.net. >> >> Regards, >> >> Communications and Member Services >> American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ARIN-Announce >> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to >> the ARIN Announce Mailing List (ARIN-announce at arin.net). >> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-announce >> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. >> > > _______________________________________________ > ARIN-Discuss > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to > the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss > Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. > Bob Evans CTO 650-330-0428 ext 204 M-F 9-5 Pacific , please _______________________________________________ ARIN-Discuss You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. From terry at wigginstel.com Thu Jan 17 11:49:22 2013 From: terry at wigginstel.com (Terry Hendrickson) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 09:49:22 -0700 Subject: [arin-discuss] To List Members ARIN Consultation: Changing the VoterEligibility for ARIN Member Organizations In-Reply-To: <1950018699-1358440267-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2068672135-@b2.c9.bise6.blackberry> References: <50F57EE1.5050201@arin.net> <53762DB6-C26C-4CF1-AA3B-FFDDE1DEB05B@mt-opticom.com> <1950018699-1358440267-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2068672135-@b2.c9.bise6.blackberry> Message-ID: <003a01cdf4d2$9a2fb620$ce8f2260$@com> Agreed, well stated, Bob. -----Original Message----- From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of gcampbelljm at yahoo.com Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 9:31 AM To: bob at FiberInternetCenter.com; Drake Pallister Cc: arin-discuss at arin.net Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] To List Members ARIN Consultation: Changing the VoterEligibility for ARIN Member Organizations Definitely agree with you on this Bob. Sent from my BlackBerryR device from Digicel -----Original Message----- From: "Bob Evans" Sender: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 08:27:16 To: Drake Pallister Reply-To: bob at FiberInternetCenter.com Cc: Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] To List Members ARIN Consultation: Changing the VoterEligibility for ARIN Member Organizations An elaboration on my 2 cents when this thread began. Don't change it. It adds an additional complexity to software, staffing, new dilemmas develop etc. Can also lead to billing confusion when it becomes an enabled excuse to delay collection of fees. If the "thinking" is the staff and software structure can handle such a change without any future staff duties/changes/additions give it 24 months - in my experience such a change always adds new costs. Customers/Members will never perform/follow rules/etc as you expect. Answering the phone more often will definitely be one of the new costs. bob evans > [arin-discuss] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility for ARIN > Member OrganizationsHello All, > > > Some simple thoughts relative to ARIN's request for comment. > > Subject: [arin-announce] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility > for ARIN Member Organizations > > > > I offer only food for thought-- no great solutions and no big complaints. > > > > I have followed this thread and read wide ranges of suggestions from > assigning DMR to alternate POC's such as tech, admin, and whatever; > primary > & secondary POC, anonymous POC's (that I think could cause confusion if a > Tech or Admin POC were to be come anonymous for the purpose of DMR) > > > > But-- keep in mind that some employees have a personal POC that they will > keep if they move to another job ! > > > > There are other troublesome potentials to plentiful that I might read > inaccurate or unfounded problems into, so I won't even try to describe > things like DMR-Brokering for profit. We're not voting for President of > USA. > > > > My personal opinion is to Keep a DMR. It probably wouldn't be terrible if > the member selected an existing POC to be the DMR, but who the DMR is > should still stay unpublished. Keep in mind that employees often have a > personal POC, and many companies do not stay on top of their > administrative > stuff, especially these days. > > > > You could add the space for a secondary DMR id the eligible voter chose to > fill in the entry. > > > > A secondary DMR could only vote if the primary DMR did not. (maybe he /she > was in the hospital or something); but a primary DMR would always override > a > secondary DMR. > > > > Validation of the DMR ? Perhaps that could be done by emailing (or better > yet) making the voting ORG download (from the ORG's Login Management > Account) a zipped/encrypted hash or checksum that he/she must include with > the cast of their vote, so ARIN knows it is a valid authorization > generated > by the ORG itself and not a former employee who still has a personal POC > listed as a DMR. > > > > Many companies are busy doing sales, marketing, programming and don't have > the time to keep totally informed with the candidates' views on various > issues. Such a voting ORG would likely choose an outside DMR who shares > their same beliefs and viewpoints on industry issues. Therefore, I can > understand an argument in favor of a proxy-type or outside DMR vote to be > allowed, as long as the vote was cast with the validation zipped hash to > validate the DMR is real. Hashes, keys, are utilized for email swip > forms, > so perhaps a slightly stronger one could be generated by the owner of the > ORG and supplied to the pre-registered DMR? He/she could then even utilize > a > G-mail, Hotmail or other similar email account in the event there was a > widespread outage an outage from a tornado, hurricane, solar flare, etc. > That might even be a good reason to have a secondary DMR. > > > > As I said, I only offer some food for thought. > > > > Cutting this short, I hope I have added something of value to this > conversation. > > > > ~Drake Pallister > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "ARIN" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 11:07 AM > Subject: [arin-announce] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility > for ARIN Member Organizations > > >> ARIN is seeking feedback from its membership about changing voting >> eligibility so that any ARIN web account linked to an Admin and/or Tech >> POC of a Member organization may cast the ballot for the organization's >> one vote in ARIN elections. This change would replace the Designated >> Member Representative (DMR) role in the ARIN elections and allow >> organizations to have more that one eligible voter. There is no change >> to the one vote per Organization ID rule. >> We are suggesting this change in order to increase participation in ARIN >> elections. This change would: >> >> * Allow organizations to have more than one eligible voter, thereby >> increasing the chances that someone would be available to cast a ballot >> >> * Eliminate the need for Members to create and update the DMR POC >> with its specialized email requirements >> >> Note: The benefit of allowing more than one individual the ability >> to cast the organization's one vote may in some cases require internal >> coordination to determine who will cast the vote. If a second individual >> attempts to vote, they will receive notification that their organization >> has already voted and they will not be able to cast a ballot. >> >> ARIN is seeking input from the community regarding this potential >> change, including whether it would be beneficial and if made, whether >> voting eligibility should be provided to Admin POCs or Admin and Tech >> POCs. >> You can read background on ARIN's existing processes of DMRs at: >> >> https://www.arin.net/about_us/membership/dmr.html >> >> You can read about ARIN's current Board and Advisory Council Election >> voting process at: >> >> https://www.arin.net/participate/elections/elec_procedures.html#voting >> >> Relevant Statistics: >> >> 89% of ARIN Members currently have a web account linked to either >> their Admin or Tech POC handle. >> >> 85% of ARIN Members currently have a web account linked to their >> Admin POC handle. >> >> In the 2012 elections 87% of Member organizations had a DMR that >> was eligible to vote. >> >> Please provide comments to arin-discuss at arin.net. >> Representatives from member organizations may subscribe to this list at: >> >> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss >> >> Discussion will close on 12 February 2013. ARIN seeks clear direction >> from its members, so your feedback is important. If you have any >> questions, please contact us at info at arin.net. >> >> Regards, >> >> Communications and Member Services >> American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ARIN-Announce >> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to >> the ARIN Announce Mailing List (ARIN-announce at arin.net). >> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-announce >> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. >> > > _______________________________________________ > ARIN-Discuss > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to > the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss > Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. > Bob Evans CTO 650-330-0428 ext 204 M-F 9-5 Pacific , please _______________________________________________ ARIN-Discuss You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. _______________________________________________ ARIN-Discuss You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. From lar at mwtcorp.net Thu Jan 17 11:59:36 2013 From: lar at mwtcorp.net (Larry Ash) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 09:59:36 -0700 Subject: [arin-discuss] To List Members ARIN Consultation: Changing the VoterEligibility for ARIN Member Organizations In-Reply-To: References: <50F57EE1.5050201@arin.net> <53762DB6-C26C-4CF1-AA3B-FFDDE1DEB05B@mt-opticom.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 08:27:16 -0800 "Bob Evans" wrote: > > An elaboration on my 2 cents when this thread began. > > Don't change it. It adds an additional complexity to software, staffing, > new dilemmas develop etc. Can also lead to billing confusion when it > becomes an enabled excuse to delay collection of fees. If the "thinking" > is the staff and software structure can handle such a change without any > future staff duties/changes/additions give it 24 months - in my experience > such a change always adds new costs. Customers/Members will never > perform/follow rules/etc as you expect. Answering the phone more often > will definitely be one of the new costs. > > bob evans Agreed the unanticipated consequence is always out there somewhere. I would add that there is an assumption that larger vote percentages are better. I don't necessarily agree. When one chooses not to vote it can be because he/she trusts the community consensus more than he/she trusts his/her own judgment at that time. In my way of thinking that is a proxy to the community and a vote. > >> [arin-discuss] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility for ARIN >> Member OrganizationsHello All, >> >> >> Some simple thoughts relative to ARIN's request for comment. >> >> Subject: [arin-announce] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility >> for ARIN Member Organizations >> >> >> >> I offer only food for thought-- no great solutions and no big complaints. >> >> >> >> I have followed this thread and read wide ranges of suggestions from >> assigning DMR to alternate POC's such as tech, admin, and whatever; >> primary >> & secondary POC, anonymous POC's (that I think could cause confusion if a >> Tech or Admin POC were to be come anonymous for the purpose of DMR) >> >> >> >> But-- keep in mind that some employees have a personal POC that they will >> keep if they move to another job ! >> >> >> >> There are other troublesome potentials to plentiful that I might read >> inaccurate or unfounded problems into, so I won't even try to describe >> things like DMR-Brokering for profit. We're not voting for President of >> USA. >> >> >> >> My personal opinion is to Keep a DMR. It probably wouldn't be terrible if >> the member selected an existing POC to be the DMR, but who the DMR is >> should still stay unpublished. Keep in mind that employees often have a >> personal POC, and many companies do not stay on top of their >> administrative >> stuff, especially these days. >> >> >> >> You could add the space for a secondary DMR id the eligible voter chose to >> fill in the entry. >> >> >> >> A secondary DMR could only vote if the primary DMR did not. (maybe he /she >> was in the hospital or something); but a primary DMR would always override >> a >> secondary DMR. >> >> >> >> Validation of the DMR ? Perhaps that could be done by emailing (or better >> yet) making the voting ORG download (from the ORG's Login Management >> Account) a zipped/encrypted hash or checksum that he/she must include with >> the cast of their vote, so ARIN knows it is a valid authorization >> generated >> by the ORG itself and not a former employee who still has a personal POC >> listed as a DMR. >> >> >> >> Many companies are busy doing sales, marketing, programming and don't have >> the time to keep totally informed with the candidates' views on various >> issues. Such a voting ORG would likely choose an outside DMR who shares >> their same beliefs and viewpoints on industry issues. Therefore, I can >> understand an argument in favor of a proxy-type or outside DMR vote to be >> allowed, as long as the vote was cast with the validation zipped hash to >> validate the DMR is real. Hashes, keys, are utilized for email swip >> forms, >> so perhaps a slightly stronger one could be generated by the owner of the >> ORG and supplied to the pre-registered DMR? He/she could then even utilize >> a >> G-mail, Hotmail or other similar email account in the event there was a >> widespread outage an outage from a tornado, hurricane, solar flare, etc. >> That might even be a good reason to have a secondary DMR. >> >> >> >> As I said, I only offer some food for thought. >> >> >> >> Cutting this short, I hope I have added something of value to this >> conversation. >> >> >> >> ~Drake Pallister >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "ARIN" >> To: >> Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 11:07 AM >> Subject: [arin-announce] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility >> for ARIN Member Organizations >> >> >>> ARIN is seeking feedback from its membership about changing voting >>> eligibility so that any ARIN web account linked to an Admin and/or Tech >>> POC of a Member organization may cast the ballot for the organization's >>> one vote in ARIN elections. This change would replace the Designated >>> Member Representative (DMR) role in the ARIN elections and allow >>> organizations to have more that one eligible voter. There is no change >>> to the one vote per Organization ID rule. >>> We are suggesting this change in order to increase participation in ARIN >>> elections. This change would: >>> >>> * Allow organizations to have more than one eligible voter, thereby >>> increasing the chances that someone would be available to cast a ballot >>> >>> * Eliminate the need for Members to create and update the DMR POC >>> with its specialized email requirements >>> >>> Note: The benefit of allowing more than one individual the ability >>> to cast the organization's one vote may in some cases require internal >>> coordination to determine who will cast the vote. If a second individual >>> attempts to vote, they will receive notification that their organization >>> has already voted and they will not be able to cast a ballot. >>> >>> ARIN is seeking input from the community regarding this potential >>> change, including whether it would be beneficial and if made, whether >>> voting eligibility should be provided to Admin POCs or Admin and Tech >>> POCs. >>> You can read background on ARIN's existing processes of DMRs at: >>> >>> https://www.arin.net/about_us/membership/dmr.html >>> >>> You can read about ARIN's current Board and Advisory Council Election >>> voting process at: >>> >>> https://www.arin.net/participate/elections/elec_procedures.html#voting >>> >>> Relevant Statistics: >>> >>> 89% of ARIN Members currently have a web account linked to either >>> their Admin or Tech POC handle. >>> >>> 85% of ARIN Members currently have a web account linked to their >>> Admin POC handle. >>> >>> In the 2012 elections 87% of Member organizations had a DMR that >>> was eligible to vote. >>> >>> Please provide comments to arin-discuss at arin.net. >>> Representatives from member organizations may subscribe to this list at: >>> >>> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss >>> >>> Discussion will close on 12 February 2013. ARIN seeks clear direction >>> from its members, so your feedback is important. If you have any >>> questions, please contact us at info at arin.net. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Communications and Member Services >>> American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN) >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> ARIN-Announce >>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to >>> the ARIN Announce Mailing List (ARIN-announce at arin.net). >>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >>> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-announce >>> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ARIN-Discuss >> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to >> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). >> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss >> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. >> > > > Bob Evans > CTO > 650-330-0428 ext 204 M-F 9-5 Pacific , please > > > _______________________________________________ > ARIN-Discuss > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to > the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss > Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. Larry Ash Network Administrator Mountain West Telephone 123 W 1st St. Casper, WY 82601 Office 307 233-8387 From jay at impulse.net Thu Jan 17 18:47:42 2013 From: jay at impulse.net (Jay Hennigan) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 15:47:42 -0800 Subject: [arin-discuss] To List Members ARIN Consultation: Changing the VoterEligibility for ARIN Member Organizations In-Reply-To: References: <50F57EE1.5050201@arin.net> <53762DB6-C26C-4CF1-AA3B-FFDDE1DEB05B@mt-opticom.com> Message-ID: <50F88D9E.5070008@impulse.net> On 1/17/13 8:59 AM, Larry Ash wrote: > Agreed the unanticipated consequence is always out there somewhere. Also agreed. > I would add that there is an assumption that larger vote > percentages are better. I don't necessarily agree. When one chooses not > to vote it can be because he/she trusts the community consensus more than > he/she trusts his/her own judgment at that time. In my way of thinking that > is a proxy to the community and a vote. Perhaps add a choice on each ballot of "Abstain" or "Not enough familiarity with issue/candidates to make informed decision", really the same thing. Even this change could cause some issues if enough people actually use it and there are bylaws clauses regarding majority of votes cast, however. IMHO, leave it alone. Lack of participation in the election may just be a sign that the "silent majority" is happy. -- Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Engineering - jay at impulse.net Impulse Advanced Communications - http://www.impulse.net/ Your local telephone and internet company - 805 884-6323 - WB6RDV From mark at visuallink.com Thu Jan 17 19:53:03 2013 From: mark at visuallink.com (Mark Bayliss) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 19:53:03 -0500 Subject: [arin-discuss] To List Members ARIN Consultation: Changing the VoterEligibility for ARIN Member Organizations In-Reply-To: <50F88D9E.5070008@impulse.net> References: <50F57EE1.5050201@arin.net> <53762DB6-C26C-4CF1-AA3B-FFDDE1DEB05B@mt-opticom.com> <50F88D9E.5070008@impulse.net> Message-ID: <20130118010029.07F5D213669@smtp2.arin.net> The lack of participation might be similar to that of a typical government elections were people do not vote because they do not like any of the choices. What if we added another choice on the ballet "none of the above". And if "none of the above above" receive over 51 % of the votes. We would have to submit new candidates and have another election. That way the majority of voters would always approve of the winner of the election. At 06:47 PM 1/17/2013, Jay Hennigan wrote: >On 1/17/13 8:59 AM, Larry Ash wrote: > > > Agreed the unanticipated consequence is always out there somewhere. > >Also agreed. > > > I would add that there is an assumption that larger vote > > percentages are better. I don't necessarily agree. When one chooses not > > to vote it can be because he/she trusts the community consensus more than > > he/she trusts his/her own judgment at that time. In my way of thinking that > > is a proxy to the community and a vote. > >Perhaps add a choice on each ballot of "Abstain" or "Not enough >familiarity with issue/candidates to make informed decision", really the >same thing. Even this change could cause some issues if enough people >actually use it and there are bylaws clauses regarding majority of votes >cast, however. > >IMHO, leave it alone. Lack of participation in the election may just be >a sign that the "silent majority" is happy. > > >-- >Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Engineering - jay at impulse.net >Impulse Advanced Communications - http://www.impulse.net/ >Your local telephone and internet company - 805 884-6323 - WB6RDV >_______________________________________________ >ARIN-Discuss >You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to >the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). >Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss >Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. > > > > >======= >Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. >(Email Guard: 9.0.0.2308, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.20970) >http://www.pctools.com/ >======= ======= Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 9.0.0.2308, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.20970) http://www.pctools.com/ ======= -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From crogers at inerail.net Thu Jan 17 21:08:05 2013 From: crogers at inerail.net (Chris Rogers) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 21:08:05 -0500 Subject: [arin-discuss] To List Members ARIN Consultation: Changing the VoterEligibility for ARIN Member Organizations In-Reply-To: <20130118010029.07F5D213669@smtp2.arin.net> References: <50F57EE1.5050201@arin.net> <53762DB6-C26C-4CF1-AA3B-FFDDE1DEB05B@mt-opticom.com> <50F88D9E.5070008@impulse.net> <20130118010029.07F5D213669@smtp2.arin.net> Message-ID: I also oppose the change. I think we're better off keeping the DMR as-is. On Thu, Jan 17, 2013 at 7:53 PM, Mark Bayliss wrote: > The lack of participation might be similar to that of a typical > government elections were people do not vote because they do not like any > of the choices. What if we added another choice on the ballet "*none of > the above*". And if "*none of the above above*" receive over 51 % of the > votes. We would have to submit new candidates and have another election. > That way the majority of voters would always approve of the winner of the > election. > > At 06:47 PM 1/17/2013, Jay Hennigan wrote: > > On 1/17/13 8:59 AM, Larry Ash wrote: > > > Agreed the unanticipated consequence is always out there somewhere. > > Also agreed. > > > I would add that there is an assumption that larger vote > > percentages are better. I don't necessarily agree. When one chooses not > > to vote it can be because he/she trusts the community consensus more than > > he/she trusts his/her own judgment at that time. In my way of thinking > that > > is a proxy to the community and a vote. > > Perhaps add a choice on each ballot of "Abstain" or "Not enough > familiarity with issue/candidates to make informed decision", really the > same thing. Even this change could cause some issues if enough people > actually use it and there are bylaws clauses regarding majority of votes > cast, however. > > IMHO, leave it alone. Lack of participation in the election may just be > a sign that the "silent majority" is happy. > > > -- > Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Engineering - jay at impulse.net > Impulse Advanced Communications - http://www.impulse.net/ > Your local telephone and internet company - 805 884-6323 - WB6RDV > _______________________________________________ > ARIN-Discuss > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to > the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss > Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. > > > > > ======= > Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. > (Email Guard: 9.0.0.2308, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.20970) > http://www.pctools.com/ > ======= > > > > > > > ======= > Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. > (Email Guard: 9.0.0.2308, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.20970) > http://www.pctools.com > ======= > > _______________________________________________ > ARIN-Discuss > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to > the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss > Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. > -- Regards, Chris Rogers CEO, Inerail +1.302.357.3696 x2110 http://inerail.net/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nitesh at rackwizards.com Thu Jan 17 20:40:09 2013 From: nitesh at rackwizards.com (Nitesh Mistry) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 20:40:09 -0500 Subject: [arin-discuss] To List Members ARIN Consultation: Changing the VoterEligibility for ARIN Member Organizations In-Reply-To: <20130118010029.07F5D213669@smtp2.arin.net> References: <50F57EE1.5050201@arin.net> <53762DB6-C26C-4CF1-AA3B-FFDDE1DEB05B@mt-opticom.com> <50F88D9E.5070008@impulse.net> <20130118010029.07F5D213669@smtp2.arin.net> Message-ID: <016901cdf51c$c602e3e0$5208aba0$@rackwizards.com> Agreed From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of Mark Bayliss Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 7:53 PM To: Jay Hennigan; arin-discuss at arin.net Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] To List Members ARIN Consultation: Changing the VoterEligibility for ARIN Member Organizations The lack of participation might be similar to that of a typical government elections were people do not vote because they do not like any of the choices. What if we added another choice on the ballet "none of the above". And if "none of the above above" receive over 51 % of the votes. We would have to submit new candidates and have another election. That way the majority of voters would always approve of the winner of the election. At 06:47 PM 1/17/2013, Jay Hennigan wrote: On 1/17/13 8:59 AM, Larry Ash wrote: > Agreed the unanticipated consequence is always out there somewhere. Also agreed. > I would add that there is an assumption that larger vote > percentages are better. I don't necessarily agree. When one chooses not > to vote it can be because he/she trusts the community consensus more than > he/she trusts his/her own judgment at that time. In my way of thinking that > is a proxy to the community and a vote. Perhaps add a choice on each ballot of "Abstain" or "Not enough familiarity with issue/candidates to make informed decision", really the same thing. Even this change could cause some issues if enough people actually use it and there are bylaws clauses regarding majority of votes cast, however. IMHO, leave it alone. Lack of participation in the election may just be a sign that the "silent majority" is happy. -- Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Engineering - jay at impulse.net Impulse Advanced Communications - http://www.impulse.net/ Your local telephone and internet company - 805 884-6323 - WB6RDV _______________________________________________ ARIN-Discuss You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. ======= Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 9.0.0.2308, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.20970) http://www.pctools.com/ ======= ======= Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 9.0.0.2308, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.20970) http://www.pctools.com ======= -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mark at visuallink.com Fri Jan 18 02:18:26 2013 From: mark at visuallink.com (Mark Bayliss) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 02:18:26 -0500 Subject: [arin-discuss] To List Members ARIN Consultation: Changing the VoterEligibility for ARIN Member Organizations In-Reply-To: <3AEF79AC-A31D-4B2B-ABD0-3FE05950ACCD@virtualized.org> References: <50F57EE1.5050201@arin.net> <53762DB6-C26C-4CF1-AA3B-FFDDE1DEB05B@mt-opticom.com> <50F88D9E.5070008@impulse.net> <20130118010029.07F5D213669@smtp2.arin.net> <3AEF79AC-A31D-4B2B-ABD0-3FE05950ACCD@virtualized.org> Message-ID: <20130118071809.8BC22213666@smtp2.arin.net> David, Elections are always the best method to select representation. I would just like to see the voting members have more of a say and another choice other than to vote or not vote for a candidate. If we had this option available in normal Government elections I am sure there would be a greater turn out at the polls.And far fewer unopposed elections. Regards, Mark Bayliss At 08:09 PM 1/17/2013, David Conrad wrote: >Perhaps the whole idea of voting is not the best way to select >representation for ARIN's board/AC and an IETF-style "nomcom" might >be a better approach? > >Regards, >-drc > >On Jan 17, 2013, at 4:53 PM, Mark Bayliss ><mark at visuallink.com> wrote: > >>The lack of participation might be similar to that of a typical >>government elections were people do not vote because they do not >>like any of the choices. What if we added another choice on the >>ballet "none of the above". And if "none of the above >>above" receive over 51 % of the votes. We would have to submit new >>candidates and have another election. That way the majority of >>voters would always approve of the winner of the election. >> >>At 06:47 PM 1/17/2013, Jay Hennigan wrote: >>>On 1/17/13 8:59 AM, Larry Ash wrote: >>> >>> > Agreed the unanticipated consequence is always out there somewhere. >>> >>>Also agreed. >>> >>> > I would add that there is an assumption that larger vote >>> > percentages are better. I don't necessarily agree. When one chooses not >>> > to vote it can be because he/she trusts the community consensus more than >>> > he/she trusts his/her own judgment at that time. In my way of >>> thinking that >>> > is a proxy to the community and a vote. >>> >>>Perhaps add a choice on each ballot of "Abstain" or "Not enough >>>familiarity with issue/candidates to make informed decision", really the >>>same thing. Even this change could cause some issues if enough people >>>actually use it and there are bylaws clauses regarding majority of votes >>>cast, however. >>> >>>IMHO, leave it alone. Lack of participation in the election may just be >>>a sign that the "silent majority" is happy. >>> >>> >>>-- >>>Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Engineering - >>>jay at impulse.net >>>Impulse Advanced Communications - http://www.impulse.net/ >>>Your local telephone and internet company - 805 884-6323 - WB6RDV >>>_______________________________________________ >>>ARIN-Discuss >>>You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to >>>the ARIN Discussion Mailing List >>>(ARIN-discuss at arin.net). >>>Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >>>http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss >>>Please contact info at arin.net if you >>>experience any issues. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>======= >>>Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. >>>(Email Guard: 9.0.0.2308, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.20970) >>>http://www.pctools.com/ >>>======= >> >> >> >> >> >>======= >>Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. >>(Email Guard: 9.0.0.2308, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.20970) >>http://www.pctools.com >>======= >>_______________________________________________ >>ARIN-Discuss >>You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to >>the ARIN Discussion Mailing List >>(ARIN-discuss at arin.net). >>Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >>http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss >>Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. > > > > >======= >Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. >(Email Guard: 9.0.0.2308, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.20970) >http://www.pctools.com >======= ======= Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 9.0.0.2308, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.20970) http://www.pctools.com/ ======= -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Yi.Chu at sprint.com Fri Jan 18 09:29:14 2013 From: Yi.Chu at sprint.com (Chu, Yi [NTK]) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 14:29:14 +0000 Subject: [arin-discuss] To List Members ARIN Consultation: Changing the VoterEligibility for ARIN Member Organizations In-Reply-To: References: <50F57EE1.5050201@arin.net> <53762DB6-C26C-4CF1-AA3B-FFDDE1DEB05B@mt-opticom.com> <50F88D9E.5070008@impulse.net> <20130118010029.07F5D213669@smtp2.arin.net> Message-ID: Same here. I am opposed to the change. I am concerned about the side-effect that instead more voter participation, we would just amplify the opinion of just a few many times. yi From: owner-arin at sprint.net [mailto:owner-arin at sprint.net] On Behalf Of Chris Rogers Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 9:08 PM To: Mark Bayliss Cc: arin-discuss at arin.net Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] To List Members ARIN Consultation: Changing the VoterEligibility for ARIN Member Organizations I also oppose the change. I think we're better off keeping the DMR as-is. On Thu, Jan 17, 2013 at 7:53 PM, Mark Bayliss > wrote: The lack of participation might be similar to that of a typical government elections were people do not vote because they do not like any of the choices. What if we added another choice on the ballet "none of the above". And if "none of the above above" receive over 51 % of the votes. We would have to submit new candidates and have another election. That way the majority of voters would always approve of the winner of the election. At 06:47 PM 1/17/2013, Jay Hennigan wrote: On 1/17/13 8:59 AM, Larry Ash wrote: > Agreed the unanticipated consequence is always out there somewhere. Also agreed. > I would add that there is an assumption that larger vote > percentages are better. I don't necessarily agree. When one chooses not > to vote it can be because he/she trusts the community consensus more than > he/she trusts his/her own judgment at that time. In my way of thinking that > is a proxy to the community and a vote. Perhaps add a choice on each ballot of "Abstain" or "Not enough familiarity with issue/candidates to make informed decision", really the same thing. Even this change could cause some issues if enough people actually use it and there are bylaws clauses regarding majority of votes cast, however. IMHO, leave it alone. Lack of participation in the election may just be a sign that the "silent majority" is happy. -- Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Engineering - jay at impulse.net Impulse Advanced Communications - http://www.impulse.net/ Your local telephone and internet company - 805 884-6323 - WB6RDV _______________________________________________ ARIN-Discuss You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. ======= Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 9.0.0.2308, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.20970) http://www.pctools.com/ ======= ======= Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 9.0.0.2308, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.20970) http://www.pctools.com ======= _______________________________________________ ARIN-Discuss You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. -- Regards, Chris Rogers CEO, Inerail +1.302.357.3696 x2110 http://inerail.net/ ________________________________ This e-mail may contain Sprint Nextel proprietary information intended for the sole use of the recipient(s). Any use by others is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies of the message. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bfecker at clackesd.k12.or.us Fri Jan 18 10:21:18 2013 From: bfecker at clackesd.k12.or.us (Brad Fecker) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 07:21:18 -0800 Subject: [arin-discuss] To List Members ARIN Consultation: Changing the VoterEligibility for ARIN Member Organizations In-Reply-To: <50F88D9E.5070008@impulse.net> References: <50F57EE1.5050201@arin.net> <53762DB6-C26C-4CF1-AA3B-FFDDE1DEB05B@mt-opticom.com> <50F88D9E.5070008@impulse.net> Message-ID: This past year was the first year I voted because it's the first year I personally knew one of the candidates. Previously, I deferred my vote to those 'in the know' folks that have been active at the meetings and in the community, which is on par with what many here have said. I think an 'Abstain' option is a great idea which can allow the community to get a sense of how many DMR's are actually looking at the election material - even if they choose not to participate in the outcome. The Abstain addition would also be much less disruptive to the process than trying to implement a DMR voting change. Brad > I would add that there is an assumption that larger vote > > percentages are better. I don't necessarily agree. When one chooses not > > to vote it can be because he/she trusts the community consensus more than > > he/she trusts his/her own judgment at that time. In my way of thinking > that > > is a proxy to the community and a vote. > > Perhaps add a choice on each ballot of "Abstain" or "Not enough > familiarity with issue/candidates to make informed decision", really the > same thing. Even this change could cause some issues if enough people > actually use it and there are bylaws clauses regarding majority of votes > cast, however. > > IMHO, leave it alone. Lack of participation in the election may just be > a sign that the "silent majority" is happy. > > > -- > Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Engineering - jay at impulse.net > Impulse Advanced Communications - http://www.impulse.net/ > Your local telephone and internet company - 805 884-6323 - WB6RDV > _______________________________________________ > ARIN-Discuss > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to > the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss > Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. > -- Bradley J. Fecker (503) 675-4093 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mcr at novavision.ca Fri Jan 18 10:39:53 2013 From: mcr at novavision.ca (Michael Richardson) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 10:39:53 -0500 Subject: [arin-discuss] [arin-announce] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility for ARIN Member Organizations In-Reply-To: <50F57EDA.3040203@arin.net> References: <50F57EDA.3040203@arin.net> Message-ID: <23868.1358523593@sandelman.ca> >>>>> "ARIN" == ARIN writes: ARIN> * Allow organizations to have more than one eligible voter, thereby ARIN> increasing the chances that someone would be available to cast ARIN> a ballot ... ARIN> Note: The benefit of allowing more than one individual the ability ARIN> to cast the organization's one vote may in some cases require ARIN> internal ARIN> coordination to determine who will cast the vote. If a second ARIN> individual So, it's still one vote per organization, but any individual may act. -- ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh networks [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | network architect [ ] mcr at sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rails [ From mstotyn at enmax.com Fri Jan 18 16:12:57 2013 From: mstotyn at enmax.com (Stotyn, Mel) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 21:12:57 +0000 Subject: [arin-discuss] [arin-announce] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility for ARIN Member Organizations In-Reply-To: <23868.1358523593@sandelman.ca> References: <50F57EDA.3040203@arin.net> <23868.1358523593@sandelman.ca> Message-ID: <16377D27BA4075438EC19DE72E29156AB0DDE1E2@CORPMBXEP02.enmax.com> Opposed -----Original Message----- From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of Michael Richardson Sent: January 18, 2013 8:40 AM To: arin-discuss at arin.net Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] [arin-announce] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility for ARIN Member Organizations >>>>> "ARIN" == ARIN writes: ARIN> * Allow organizations to have more than one eligible voter, thereby ARIN> increasing the chances that someone would be available to cast ARIN> a ballot ... ARIN> Note: The benefit of allowing more than one individual the ability ARIN> to cast the organization's one vote may in some cases require ARIN> internal ARIN> coordination to determine who will cast the vote. If a second ARIN> individual So, it's still one vote per organization, but any individual may act. -- ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh networks [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | network architect [ ] mcr at sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rails [ _______________________________________________ ARIN-Discuss You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. ************************************************************* This e-mail message is intended only for the person(s) named above and may contain confidential or privileged information. If you are not the person named or have not been authorized by them to access their mail, please notify the sender immediately and delete this e-mail and any attachments without reading, saving, or forwarding. ************************************************************* From Dennis.Fazio at ties.k12.mn.us Mon Jan 21 11:22:49 2013 From: Dennis.Fazio at ties.k12.mn.us (Dennis Fazio) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 16:22:49 +0000 Subject: [arin-discuss] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility for ARIN Member Organizations In-Reply-To: <50F5B073.6080609@arin.net> References: <50F57EE1.5050201@arin.net> <53762DB6-C26C-4CF1-AA3B-FFDDE1DEB05B@mt-opticom.com> <50F5B073.6080609@arin.net> Message-ID: <9BBEAAD9-8F73-4BFC-8F46-CBA55796B87D@ties.k12.mn.us> In my experience, 10%-15% turnout doesn't seem that bad in these types of online elections with these type of organizations. You do have 400-500 engaged organizations making policy decisions by participating, which is a pretty sizable number. It wasn't too long ago when only small handfuls of people were doing this for the thousands of Internet participants at the time. There is a division of role with DMR and admin/tech POCs. The POCs are operational roles, the DMR is the business/policy representative to ARIN. The POCs keep the services up to date and running; the DMR deals with the governance and policy issues. In most smaller organizations, the DMR and POC are likely the same person, so extending voting ability to POCs will not likely increase the voting pool that much. Making it easier to change the DMR would be helpful. Otherwise, I'll bet that the DMR often gives a trusted POC their login credentials to delegate voting in smaller organizations. I suspect that most organizations treat ARIN as a utility service and are not engaged enough to read through all the policy and election material. As long as the service keeps working OK, they're fine. Most of the elections are non-controversial and if we who do not know the candidates or have not heard of them, we have a hard time making choices based only on blurbs in the distributed material. An abstention vote might be nice, but that may not help much either. Abstention by not voting is easier than going through and marking a ballot. If there were a truly important and contested Internet governance issue and it was in the news, and folks were either seriously concerned or dissatisfied, you can be sure there will be a huge surge in DMR voting participation. In the meantime, keep it simple, keep the roles defined as they are, and don't worry about the participation level. -- Dennis Fazio TIES, Director of Technical Services -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mark at visuallink.com Mon Jan 21 13:21:29 2013 From: mark at visuallink.com (Mark Bayliss) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 13:21:29 -0500 Subject: [arin-discuss] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility for ARIN Member Organizations In-Reply-To: <9BBEAAD9-8F73-4BFC-8F46-CBA55796B87D@ties.k12.mn.us> References: <50F57EE1.5050201@arin.net> <53762DB6-C26C-4CF1-AA3B-FFDDE1DEB05B@mt-opticom.com> <50F5B073.6080609@arin.net> <9BBEAAD9-8F73-4BFC-8F46-CBA55796B87D@ties.k12.mn.us> Message-ID: <20130121182129.E67FC21361B@smtp2.arin.net> Dennis, I think you make some good points. But I think that by adding "a none of the candidates" and not an abstention vote. You would be giving all that vote more power and control over the election process. Currently DMR does not have a say as to who is on the ballet. And this can lead to either people not voting or people voting the lesser of two evils. This is not just a fault of ARIN but most elections in general since the voters are not involved in the candidate section process. The voters are only presented with a choice between candidates selected by committee. If we added a third choice for voters to be able to vote for "None of the candidates" it would provide an additional checks and balance for truly democratic elections. And If more than 51% of those who voted choose "None Of The candidates" Then those candidates on the ballet would not be elected and we would have to select new candidates and have another election. By adopting this process Arin would always be sure that when a candidate wins an election that the majority of voters agreed with the selection comities choices. Mark Bayliss At 11:22 AM 1/21/2013, Dennis Fazio wrote: >Content-Language: en-US >Content-Type: multipart/alternative; > boundary="_000_9BBEAAD98F734BFC8F46CBA55796B87Dtiesk12mnus_" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: > >In my experience, 10%-15% turnout doesn't seem that bad in these >types of online elections with these type of organizations. You do >have 400-500 engaged organizations making policy decisions by >participating, which is a pretty sizable number. It wasn't too long >ago when only small handfuls of people were doing this for the >thousands of Internet participants at the time. > >There is a division of role with DMR and admin/tech POCs. The POCs >are operational roles, the DMR is the business/policy representative >to ARIN. The POCs keep the services up to date and running; the DMR >deals with the governance and policy issues. > >In most smaller organizations, the DMR and POC are likely the same >person, so extending voting ability to POCs will not likely increase >the voting pool that much. Making it easier to change the DMR would >be helpful. Otherwise, I'll bet that the DMR often gives a trusted >POC their login credentials to delegate voting in smaller organizations. > >I suspect that most organizations treat ARIN as a utility service >and are not engaged enough to read through all the policy and >election material. As long as the service keeps working OK, they're >fine. Most of the elections are non-controversial and if we who do >not know the candidates or have not heard of them, we have a hard >time making choices based only on blurbs in the distributed >material. An abstention vote might be nice, but that may not help >much either. Abstention by not voting is easier than going through >and marking a ballot. > >If there were a truly important and contested Internet governance >issue and it was in the news, and folks were either seriously >concerned or dissatisfied, you can be sure there will be a huge >surge in DMR voting participation. > >In the meantime, keep it simple, keep the roles defined as they are, >and don't worry about the participation level. >-- >Dennis Fazio >TIES, Director of Technical Services > > > > >======= >Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. >(Email Guard: 9.0.0.2308, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.20980) >http://www.pctools.com >======= >_______________________________________________ >ARIN-Discuss >You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to >the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). >Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss >Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. > > > >======= >Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. >(Email Guard: 9.0.0.2308, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.20980) >http://www.pctools.com/ >======= ======= Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 9.0.0.2308, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.20980) http://www.pctools.com/ ======= -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mark at visuallink.com Mon Jan 21 13:48:15 2013 From: mark at visuallink.com (Mark Bayliss) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 13:48:15 -0500 Subject: [arin-discuss] Fwd: Re: ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility for ARIN Member Organizations Message-ID: <20130121184815.32D1E21361B@smtp2.arin.net> >Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 13:21:29 -0500 >To: Dennis Fazio , >"arin-discuss at arin.net" >From: Mark Bayliss >Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter >Eligibility for ARIN Member Organizations > >Dennis, > >I think you make some good points. But I think that by adding "a >none of the candidates" and not an abstention vote. You would be >giving all that vote more power and control over the election >process. Currently DMR does not have a say as to who is on the >ballet. And this can lead to either people not voting or people >voting the lesser of two evils. This is not just a fault of ARIN but >most elections in general since the voters are not involved in the >candidate section process. The voters are only presented with a >choice between candidates selected by committee. If we added a third >choice for voters to be able to vote for "None of the >candidates" it would provide an additional checks and balance for >truly democratic elections. And If more than 51% of those who voted >choose "None Of The candidates" Then those candidates on the ballet >would not be elected and we would have to select new candidates and >have another election. By adopting this process Arin would always >be sure that when a candidate wins an election that the majority of >voters agreed with the selection comities choices. > > Mark Bayliss > > >At 11:22 AM 1/21/2013, Dennis Fazio wrote: >>Content-Language: en-US >>Content-Type: multipart/alternative; >> boundary="_000_9BBEAAD98F734BFC8F46CBA55796B87Dtiesk12mnus_" >>Content-Transfer-Encoding: >> >>In my experience, 10%-15% turnout doesn't seem that bad in these >>types of online elections with these type of organizations. You do >>have 400-500 engaged organizations making policy decisions by >>participating, which is a pretty sizable number. It wasn't too long >>ago when only small handfuls of people were doing this for the >>thousands of Internet participants at the time. >> >>There is a division of role with DMR and admin/tech POCs. The POCs >>are operational roles, the DMR is the business/policy >>representative to ARIN. The POCs keep the services up to date and >>running; the DMR deals with the governance and policy issues. >> >>In most smaller organizations, the DMR and POC are likely the same >>person, so extending voting ability to POCs will not likely >>increase the voting pool that much. Making it easier to change the >>DMR would be helpful. Otherwise, I'll bet that the DMR often gives >>a trusted POC their login credentials to delegate voting in smaller >>organizations. >> >>I suspect that most organizations treat ARIN as a utility service >>and are not engaged enough to read through all the policy and >>election material. As long as the service keeps working OK, they're >>fine. Most of the elections are non-controversial and if we who do >>not know the candidates or have not heard of them, we have a hard >>time making choices based only on blurbs in the distributed >>material. An abstention vote might be nice, but that may not help >>much either. Abstention by not voting is easier than going through >>and marking a ballot. >> >>If there were a truly important and contested Internet governance >>issue and it was in the news, and folks were either seriously >>concerned or dissatisfied, you can be sure there will be a huge >>surge in DMR voting participation. >> >>In the meantime, keep it simple, keep the roles defined as they >>are, and don't worry about the participation level. >>-- >>Dennis Fazio >>TIES, Director of Technical Services >> >> >> >> >>======= >>Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. >>(Email Guard: 9.0.0.2308, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.20980) >>http://www.pctools.com >>======= >>_______________________________________________ >>ARIN-Discuss >>You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to >>the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). >>Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >>http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss >>Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. >> >> >> >>======= >>Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. >>(Email Guard: 9.0.0.2308, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.20980) >>http://www.pctools.com/ >>======= ======= Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 9.0.0.2308, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.20980) http://www.pctools.com/ ======= -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From owen at delong.com Mon Jan 21 14:56:13 2013 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 11:56:13 -0800 Subject: [arin-discuss] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility for ARIN Member Organizations In-Reply-To: <20130121182129.E67FC21361B@smtp2.arin.net> References: <50F57EE1.5050201@arin.net> <53762DB6-C26C-4CF1-AA3B-FFDDE1DEB05B@mt-opticom.com> <50F5B073.6080609@arin.net> <9BBEAAD9-8F73-4BFC-8F46-CBA55796B87D@ties.k12.mn.us> <20130121182129.E67FC21361B@smtp2.arin.net> Message-ID: <18F61C41-7564-4BDD-8792-F586756D9AEF@delong.com> Not true... The nomination process is open to DMRs as follows: Nominator Eligibility Trustees and General Members in good standing may make up to three nominations for each open Board of Trustees and Advisory Council position. Trustees and General Members in good standing may nominate themselves, ARIN members, or nonmembers according to the guidelines set in the ARIN Bylaws (Bylaws, Article VIII, Section 2.) and explained in the call for nominations. Nominees need not be ARIN General Members in good standing. Nonmembers may self-nominate by petition. As such, a DMR may nominate up to three candidates for consideration by the nominating committee. In my experience, the nominating committee does not arbitrarily reject candidates nor do they take the rejection of a candidate lightly, so any nomination of a qualified candidate has a very high probability of getting that candidate onto the electoral slate. Owen On Jan 21, 2013, at 10:21 , Mark Bayliss wrote: > Dennis, > > I think you make some good points. But I think that by adding "a none of the candidates" and not an abstention vote. You would be giving all that vote more power and control over the election process. Currently DMR does not have a say as to who is on the ballet. And this can lead to either people not voting or people voting the lesser of two evils. This is not just a fault of ARIN but most elections in general since the voters are not involved in the candidate section process. The voters are only presented with a choice between candidates selected by committee. If we added a third choice for voters to be able to vote for "None of the candidates" it would provide an additional checks and balance for truly democratic elections. And If more than 51% of those who voted choose "None Of The candidates" Then those candidates on the ballet would not be elected and we would have to select new candidates and have another election. By adopting this process Arin would always be sure that when a candidate wins an election that the majority of voters agreed with the selection comities choices. > > Mark Bayliss > > > At 11:22 AM 1/21/2013, Dennis Fazio wrote: >> Content-Language: en-US >> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; >> boundary="_000_9BBEAAD98F734BFC8F46CBA55796B87Dtiesk12mnus_" >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: >> >> In my experience, 10%-15% turnout doesn't seem that bad in these types of online elections with these type of organizations. You do have 400-500 engaged organizations making policy decisions by participating, which is a pretty sizable number. It wasn't too long ago when only small handfuls of people were doing this for the thousands of Internet participants at the time. >> >> There is a division of role with DMR and admin/tech POCs. The POCs are operational roles, the DMR is the business/policy representative to ARIN. The POCs keep the services up to date and running; the DMR deals with the governance and policy issues. >> >> In most smaller organizations, the DMR and POC are likely the same person, so extending voting ability to POCs will not likely increase the voting pool that much. Making it easier to change the DMR would be helpful. Otherwise, I'll bet that the DMR often gives a trusted POC their login credentials to delegate voting in smaller organizations. >> >> I suspect that most organizations treat ARIN as a utility service and are not engaged enough to read through all the policy and election material. As long as the service keeps working OK, they're fine. Most of the elections are non-controversial and if we who do not know the candidates or have not heard of them, we have a hard time making choices based only on blurbs in the distributed material. An abstention vote might be nice, but that may not help much either. Abstention by not voting is easier than going through and marking a ballot. >> >> If there were a truly important and contested Internet governance issue and it was in the news, and folks were either seriously concerned or dissatisfied, you can be sure there will be a huge surge in DMR voting participation. >> >> In the meantime, keep it simple, keep the roles defined as they are, and don't worry about the participation level. >> -- >> Dennis Fazio >> TIES, Director of Technical Services >> >> >> >> >> ======= >> Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. >> (Email Guard: 9.0.0.2308, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.20980) >> http://www.pctools.com >> ======= >> _______________________________________________ >> ARIN-Discuss >> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to >> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). >> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss >> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. >> >> >> >> ======= >> Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. >> (Email Guard: 9.0.0.2308, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.20980) >> http://www.pctools.com/ >> ======= > > > > > > ======= > Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. > (Email Guard: 9.0.0.2308, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.20980) > http://www.pctools.com > ======= > _______________________________________________ > ARIN-Discuss > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to > the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net). > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss > Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Dennis.Fazio at ties.k12.mn.us Mon Jan 21 16:10:46 2013 From: Dennis.Fazio at ties.k12.mn.us (Dennis Fazio) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 21:10:46 +0000 Subject: [arin-discuss] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility for ARIN Member Organizations In-Reply-To: <6e895549-3878-4f19-89f8-22b73d84a54c@TIESINTWEB01.ties-k12.org> References: <50F57EE1.5050201@arin.net> <53762DB6-C26C-4CF1-AA3B-FFDDE1DEB05B@mt-opticom.com> <50F5B073.6080609@arin.net> <9BBEAAD9-8F73-4BFC-8F46-CBA55796B87D@ties.k12.mn.us> <6e895549-3878-4f19-89f8-22b73d84a54c@TIESINTWEB01.ties-k12.org> Message-ID: On Jan 21, 2013, at 12:21 PM, Mark Bayliss > wrote: I think you make some good points. But I think that by adding "a none of the candidates" and not an abstention vote. You would be giving all that vote more power and control over the election process. Currently DMR does not have a say as to who is on the ballet. And this can lead to either people not voting or people voting the lesser of two evils. This is not just a fault of ARIN but most elections in general since the voters are not involved in the candidate section process. I don't think a "none of the above" would accomplish much and just clutter up or confuse the ballot. Those who are engaged and have candidates to put forward, including themselves, have opportunity to do so. The more engaged and participatory you are in an organization, the more influence you have. Those who look on ARIN as a utility service (which is probably the other 85%-90%) are depending upon the current engaged participants to be adequate in number to assure a balanced slate of capable candidates. There would be no purpose to a "none of the above" vote for those folks. So, it seems the only people who might vote "none of the above" would be those familiar enough with the slate of presented candidates to know that they are wanting. Anyone in that position should already care enough to participate and get good people nominated. If they choose not to do so, then they shouldn't get the opportunity to say "none of the above." Power and control over the election process comes from participating and influencing, not by spoiling. The handful of people who might actually vote "none of the above" will not be adequate to change any future election. -- Dennis Fazio TIES, Director of Technical Services -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jer at mia.net Thu Jan 24 12:46:05 2013 From: jer at mia.net (Jeremy Anthony Kinsey) Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 11:46:05 -0600 Subject: [arin-discuss] ARIN Consultation: Changing the Voter Eligibility for ARIN Member Organizations In-Reply-To: <1aebc98d58aa85d89980afe15a42e6f3@robertmarder.com> References: <50F57EE1.5050201@arin.net> <53762DB6-C26C-4CF1-AA3B-FFDDE1DEB05B@mt-opticom.com> <1aebc98d58aa85d89980afe15a42e6f3@robertmarder.com> Message-ID: <28F4691E-7F64-48AA-B6C0-8C28FA6FC1E0@mia.net> On Jan 15, 2013, at 1:42 PM, Robert Marder wrote: > Well, I expect voting turnout is low as a lot of people just can't be bothered. It's likely more than just being bothered. Most people don't care. And most people don't know who all these people running are. Most people just want to get their service and that's about it. > > A lot of issues that come up are corner cases that don't really affect many members, or affect them in a significant way. > > I don't see low voter turnout as a problem. Nor do I... I don't care. > > If people don't have an opinion one way or the other, or if an issue doesn't affect them that much anyway (or affects them the same way regardless of the vote), then why should they vote? > Its not about an opinion, but rather whether you're finding a qualified voter. I'd random a guess that most people who are asked to Vote, qualified or not, simply do not care. They want the service they are paying for and that is where the participation ends. Not every owner of a business has the time to wander through cauldron of candidates they don't know and cast a vote for something that in the overall scheme of running their business has absolutely no bearing on them directly or indirectly. > It's like this issue for example. While I have an opinion, if this issue was up for a vote, I probably wouldn't bother voting, as I am the only member of my organization so it doesn't affect me anyway. Bingo. Lastly, I think its an absolute waste of time sending our registered mail, blowing God know how much money on special logos and expensive letter head to urge people to vote. It boggles my mind to no end why an organization that issues "INTERNET PROTOCOL" addresses, is unable to simply EMAIL those maintainers/admins, a link to the bio's, ballots, voting, etc. To be perfectly honest the last letter I received is what CAUSED me NOT to vote. Its a waste of resources. Regards, Jeremy Anthony Kinsey Bella Mia, Inc. Quality Web Hosting and Dedicated Servers since 1997 Hosting: http://hostinglizard.com Servers http://www.hostdrive.com Tel: 262-248-6759 Fax: 262-248-6959