[arin-discuss] IPv6 as justification for IPv4?

Jesse D. Geddis jesse at la-broadband.com
Tue Apr 23 16:13:50 EDT 2013


Owen,

Not really. It depends on the measure you're using of fair and what you're target is. If you're target is to charge exactly what you're costing ARIN I wouldn't call that fair by any stretch of the term. In that scenario ARIN becomes a barrier to entry for a startup because it may be cost prohibitive. 

If you charge everyone a flat yearly fee that could be better argued as fair but again creates a barrier to entry for small startups and many business.

ARIN and internic both chose to charge based on holdings and ramp it based on assigned resources for the last 25 years. I think that's the best model. It just went off the rails when we ended up with a few folks holding 82% of the resources but paying only 17% of the revenue. A result of there being a fee ceiling that isn't tied to a holdings ceiling.

If you have a costs based fee structure please propose it. I'm interested to see what it looks like. 

Jesse Geddis
LA Broadband LLC

On Apr 23, 2013, at 6:22 AM, "Owen DeLong" <owen at delong.com> wrote:

> NPACs costs are relatively linear per ported number.
> 
> ARIN's costs are nowhere near linear per IP address.
> 
> There ends the ability to apply the NPAC model to ARIN and call it "fair".
> 
> Owen
> 
> On Apr 22, 2013, at 5:10 PM, Michael Tague <tague at win.net> wrote:
> 
>> Yes, NeuStar operates NPAC on a contract so that is a bit different than
>> ARIN, but, on the other hand, it is a number resource like ARIN operated on
>> behalf of its industry (and the public) like ARIN which needs to raise its
>> operating funds from the industry it serves like ARIN.
>> 
>> I suspect that many of the same arguments apply to NPAC as have been
>> discussed here with ARIN such as the relative costs of large versus small
>> carriers.
>> 
>> In NPAC's case they opted for purely linear with an exemption for the small
>> guys.   The telephone industry has been around a lot longer than the
>> Internet so perhaps there is something to learn there.
>> 
>> So the question remains:  is there really any justification for charging the
>> largest ISPs hundreds of times less per IP than the small and medium size
>> ISPs?
>> 
>> Michael
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net]
>> On Behalf Of Eric Brunner-Williams
>> Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 3:58 PM
>> To: arin-discuss at arin.net
>> Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] IPv6 as justification for IPv4?
>> 
>> On 4/22/13 12:29 PM, Michael Tague wrote:
>>> How do other organizations do it?    In the telephone world there is NPAC
>>> which handles number porting.   They are an ARIN like group ...
>> 
>> Um. That's currently NeuStar dude. Not "ARIN like" for very large values of
>> "like".
>> 
>> Eric
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