[arin-discuss] Status of realigning the IPv6 fee structure?

Owen DeLong owen at delong.com
Wed Mar 14 16:59:35 EDT 2012 

In principle, I agree with you. However, I don't know what the financial ramifications for ARIN would be in making such a move because the current crop of /32s includes not only those providers that would get a /32 or a /36 under the current policy, but, also many that would get /28s or /24s under current policy. Unfortunately, there isn't a good way to figure out which are which at this point.

So, I think the best thing to do in terms of making a decision about what to push for is to wait and see what the FINCOM and the board come back with.

My focus in this discussion was more to make sure that we had a relatively complete list of the available options, dispel any myths about fee increases and encourage vibrant community discussion of the topic. While I have made my personal opinions and assumptions known in the process, I don't have enough data to call any of them a "conclusion" as yet.

Owen

On Mar 14, 2012, at 12:33 PM, John Brown wrote:

> Then lets call /32 Extra-Small, keep the costs the same for those smaller providers and move forward ;)
> 
> I think having legacy /32's as XS and new /32's as S  creates disharmony.
> 
> For those small ISP's  a /32 will be the only prefix they will probably ever need.
> Poof they have instant control over their future and have their own IPv6 space.
> And at a cost point that won't prevent sooner adoption.
> 
> If you have a /32 and it becomes priced as XS then that's what you pay.  You don't force them to renumber or vacate a portion of the space.
> All that will cause is them vacating the existing space completely and coming back for space under the new policy.
> 
> I don't think ARIN has a fiscal issue.  More automation (which they are working on) should create LOWER OpEx for them.
> 
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Owen DeLong [mailto:owen at delong.com]
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 1:24 PM
>> To: John Brown
>> Cc: arin-discuss
>> Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] Status of realigning the IPv6 fee structure?
>> 
>> Pretty easily.
>> 
>> Owen
>> 
>> On Mar 14, 2012, at 12:14 PM, John Brown wrote:
>> 
>>> Could you see calling a /32 Extra-Small ??
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-discuss-
>>>> bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of Owen DeLong
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 12:59 PM
>>>> To: Mike A. Salim
>>>> Cc: arin-discuss
>>>> Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] Status of realigning the IPv6 fee structure?
>>>> 
>>>> I don't believe anyone is discussing increasing current IPv6 fees.
>>>> 
>>>> What is under discussion, I believe, is the exact manner in which to
>>>> make it possible to get an IPv6 allocation without having it cause an
>>>> increase over what current subscribers are paying for IPv4.
>>>> 
>>>> If you were an X-Small IPv4 subscriber, then when you got your /32,
>>>> you moved into the small category and went from paying $1250/year to
>>>> paying at least $2250/year (nearly doubling your fees) except to the
>>>> extent that you've been receiving a fee waiver as has been the case
>>>> so far for all IPv6 subscribers. (not IPv6 end users).
>>>> 
>>>> I'm not privy to what the board and the finance committee have been
>>>> discussing, but, what has been discussed on this list so far that I
>>>> recall are these three possibilities:
>>>> 
>>>> 1.	Lower fees for existing /32 and smaller subscribers to equivalent to
>>>> IPv4 X-Small ($1,250/year)
>>>> 2.	Leave existing /32 and larger subscribers with their current fees
>>>> ($2,250+/year) and create the X-Small
>>>> 	category for /36 subscribers only at $1,250/year.
>>>> 3.	Change the fee for the small category to $1,250/year, but leave the
>>>> boundary between small and medium at /40.
>>>> 
>>>> Personally, I think 3 is absurd. I just can't see calling an
>>>> organization with a /40 "extra small".
>>>> 
>>>> Your second paragraph is not clear as to whether you are advocating 1
>>>> or 2 or some different mixture of the two.
>>>> 
>>>> I would be OK with extending X-Small up to and including /32 and I
>>>> agree that is the best alternative if it can be done without too much
>>>> of a revenue hit to ARIN.
>>>> 
>>>> I would also be OK with treating existing /32 subscribers as x-small
>>>> and marking new /32s as small, though ARIN may not want the
>>>> accounting overhead associated with that.
>>>> 
>>>> I don't think that anyone should be forced to renumber or pay higher
>>>> fees than they are already paying as part of this. However, I'm not
>>>> sure that people who want to have their existing fees lowered by
>>>> $1,000/year shouldn't have to vacate 15/16ths of their address space
>>>> to receive that fee reduction. I'm undecided on this issue as I don't
>>>> have full knowledge of the impact of the various alternatives on ARIN's
>> financial state.
>>>> 
>>>> Owen
>>>> 
>>>> On Mar 14, 2012, at 11:00 AM, Mike A. Salim wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> This is a good discussion.  We are currently utilizing our /32 IPv6
>>>>> space.  If
>>>> we are forced to go to a smaller allocation at this point we would be
>>>> forced to renumber, and it would cause issues for us and for our
>>>> customers.  And I totally concur that an increase in IPv6 fees at
>>>> this early stage of IPv6 adoption will be counter productive.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I suggest that if XS or smaller allocations are introduced, that
>>>>> existing
>>>> allocations be grandfathered without a price change.  There is enough
>>>> IPv6 space that this should not be a problem.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Best regards
>>>>> Mike
>>>>> 
>>>>> A. Michael Salim
>>>>> VP and Chief Technology Officer,
>>>>> American Data Technology, Inc.
>>>>> PO Box 12892
>>>>> Research Triangle Park, NC 27709, USA
>>>>> P: (919)544-4101 x101
>>>>> F: (919)544-5345
>>>>> E: msalim at localweb.com
>>>>> W: http://www.localweb.com
>>>>> 
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>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net
>>>>> [mailto:arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of Randy Carpenter
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 5:47 PM
>>>>> To: arin-discuss
>>>>> Subject: [arin-discuss] Status of realigning the IPv6 fee structure?
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> What is the status of realigning the IPv6 fee structure so that it
>>>>> matches the
>>>> current policy of allocating based on nibble boundaries? This has
>>>> been discussed in the past, but I have not heard anything lately.
>>>> Jumping from
>>>> $2,250 right to $9,000 doesn't make much sense.
>>>>> 
>>>>> thanks,
>>>>> -Randy
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