[arin-discuss] Facebook /20, Google /16

Thu Sep 16 22:56:33 EDT 2010

I've chimed in on these sorts of things before.  At one time I was
a huge proponent of IPv4 recovery.  And I am still very much in
favor of ARIN retrieving abandonded IPv4 blocks and putting them
into use.  But over the years it's become very clear that there is
a balance between putting effort into reclamation of IPv4 and into
deployment of IPv6.

It is fine for the RIR's to go after abandonded IPv4 blocks.  All
of them have internal mechanisms to deal with this kind of thing
and the legacy holders are the biggest culprits of abandonding
IPv4.  In short, even if the abandonded block is a /24 it really
does not take skin off anyone's nose for the RIR to get off it's
duff and take it over.

But when your talking about blocks like the 44.0.0.0/8 which anyone
with a quarter of a brain can see is far too large for it's defined
use, there's a morass of politics for the RIR to wade through to
prod the block holder to subnet.  And the block holder isn't going
to be able to subnet and sell-off parts of the 44.0.0.0/8 block
through the transfer market because the basis of the original assignment
was for the public good and the block holder is entrusted to administer
it for the public.  So the holder has no incentive to spend time
on doing it.

If you want to complain check out what DoD has allocated, it dwarfs
most of these.  And there's no possible way you can argue that DoD
IP addresses ever need to be reachable from the Internet.

There will be need for IPv4 for years - but as soon as the larger
holders (Comcast, the cell carriers, etc.) start getting partially
filled requests, the IPv4 party will be over.  The large networks
will move to IPv6 and start returning their IPv4 allocations 
and the market will be flooded with IPv4 nobody wants.  There will
be maybe 2-3 years where it will be tight, but that's going to be
it.

I predict that the time will come that anyone who wants to could
cobble together a bunch of baloney and obtain without challenge
a /8 of IPv4 from the RIRs.  But nobody will want to because doing
it would be like announcing you have reserved the Arcnet numbers
1-128 for a new series of PCI ArcnetPlus cards your going to produce.

Ted

On Wed, 15 Sep 2010, Nathaniel B. Lyon wrote:

> I am really surprised Ted Middlestad (spelling?) hasn't chimed in on this conversation.  I always enjoy his views on such topics.  :)  Ted you out there?
>
> Nathaniel B. Lyon
> Owner, NorthfieldWiFi
> (612) 991-4260
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> nate.lyon at nfldwifi.net
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> From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net [arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of Paul G. Timmins [ptimmins at clearrate.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2010 4:35 PM
> To: Leland Vandervort; Keefe John
> Cc: arin-discuss at arin.net
> Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] Facebook /20, Google /16
>
> Furthermore it's also not mandated that all allocations be globally reachable. ANX is a good example of a network that uses public IPv4 space that is globally unique but often completely unreachable from the internet.
>
> One can request allocations in 44.x.x.x and there are groups that coordinate it for on-the-air use. Just because it can't directly gateway to the internet does not make it pointless or useless.
>
> -Paul (KC8QAY)
>
>
> Paul Timmins
> Clear Rate Communications
> Customer Support: (877) 877-4799
> 24 Hour Repair: (866) 366-4665
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>
> ________________________________________
> From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net [arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net] on behalf of Leland Vandervort [leland at gandi.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2010 5:23 PM
> To: Keefe John
> Cc: arin-discuss at arin.net
> Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] Facebook /20, Google /16
>
> I had actually asked that question last week of ARIN... got a somewhat vague response about it being a legacy network originally for "experimentation and public service attributed directly by IANA so they have no mandate to require or request its return"...
>
> The whole 44.0.0.0/8 is in the global BGP tables, but drops into a black hole at UCSD.
>
> Apparently there was originally an intention to link the AMPR and internet, hence the globally routed IP space, but the FCC apparently scapped that idea, so the two networks are prohibited from interconnecting directly without the use of a relay-gateway.
>
> Leland
> AA2QX / G0SZP
>
> :)
>
>
>
> Leland Vandervort
> Director, Technical Operations
> Gandi SAS
> 15 Place de la Nation
> 75011 Paris, France
>
> WWW: http://www.gandi.net/
>
> T: +33 1 70 39 37 59
> M: +33 6 31 15 15 07
>
>
>
> On 15 Sep 2010, at 22:50, Keefe John wrote:
>
>> While we're complaining, why does HAM radio have a full /8 that's barely
>> used, if at all?
>>
>> Keefe
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net]
>> On Behalf Of Jason Hensley
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2010 3:15 PM
>> To: arin-discuss at arin.net
>> Subject: [arin-discuss] Facebook /20, Google /16
>>
>> Anyone have any idea why Facebook would have a full /20 assigned to them?
>> Seems to me a fine example of the waste that we have out there with IP's.
>>
>> Google is another - they own a /16.  Ugh!!
>>
>> Yeah, I know, we all complain about it, but come on!  That just doesn't make
>> sense.
>>
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