[arin-discuss] urgency of IPv6

[Gary T. Giesen]

I'd also add that the user experience you expect on a mobile phone is a
lot less than what you'd expect at home on your PC. There's a much
greater variety of network-using applications on a PC, that are just not
practical on a mobile phone. Bitorrent and FTP come to mind.

GG

On Mon, 2010-06-28 at 16:36 -0400, Owen DeLong wrote:
> >> 
> >> Who cares?  The important thing is that new eyeball users that are
> >> unable to get IPv4 addresses can get to the content without bizarre
> >> hacks to give them horribly degraded IPv4 connectivity.
> >> 
> > 
> > I don't get horribly degraded IPv4 connectivity when I surf the web from
> > my Windows Mobile 5 Smartphone on Sprint's network, and my wife doesn't
> > get horribly degraded connectivity when she surfs the web from her
> > Android phone on the T mobile network - but both those phones are on an
> > IPv6 network, using some bizarre IPv6-IPv4 proxy back at the cell companies NOC.
> > 
> 
> Right... Neither of you is a post-runout new eye-ball at this time and no, you are not
> correctly understanding how the cellular network you are using is actually working.
> 
> First, neither of those networks is IPv6 yet, if you check, you'll see that your phones
> still just have IPv4 addresses. Eventually, as I understand the plans from both of
> those providers, LTE will put you onto IPv6 most of the time with short-term leases
> of IPv4 addresses when you need IPv4 connectivity. The network will remain dual-
> stack.
> 
> So, no, you are not currently using some bizarre ipv6-ipv4 proxy back at the
> cell company NOC or anywhere else. At least not yet.
> 
> > Or as Homer Simpson would say,
> > 
> > Mmmmmmm... bizarre hacks
> > 
> lol
> 
> > Seriously, it should be obvious that the economics of rolling out a brand new technology that is going to use IPv6-only plus a bizarre
> > hack to access the IPv4 Internet, is going to guarantee that the
> > bizarre hack is going to be hacked on until it works quite well.
> > 
> Why? Why not instead work towards a much cleaner solution of eliminating the need
> to access the IPv4 internet? If the content and services people want are available on
> IPv4 and IPv6, then, there's no need for bizarre hacks to allow ipv6-only clients to
> reach IPv4-only content.
> 
> > NAT is a bizarre hack, wouldn't you say?  Yet most users are
> > happy with it.
> > 
> Most users are happy with a great many things that are neither in their best
> interests nor necessarily good for the community. Most users are happy to
> keep putting gasoline in their automobiles, ignoring the damage being
> done as BP "brings oil to america's shores" as we speak. For a long time,
> most users were happy to try and get over viral diseases using antibiotics
> even though they had no positive effect against the virus and helped to
> breed antibiotic-resistant strains of bacteria in the process.
> 
> > I think the issue here is not that bizarre hacks will create horribly
> > degraded IPv4 connectivity.  I think the issue is that bizarre V6-V4
> > hacks will get institutionalized, which will make it a lot more difficult to ultimately drop IPv4 and go IPv6 only.  That is a separate and valid concern, but FUDing it around isn't going to help anything.
> > 
> I think that both are valid concerns, but, my more immediate concern
> is that bizarre hacks will create horribly degraded IPv4 connectivity with
> a second order effect that user perception of acceptable will move from the
> current moderately degraded situation to something even worse.
> 
> > Technology companies have a long history of making bizarre hacks
> > work.  Just look at Microsoft Windows, one of the most bizarre hacks
> > in the history of technology (followed closely by Mac OS 6, 7, 8 & 9.)
> > 
> I think your statement here makes my point.
> 
> Owen
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ARIN-Discuss
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net).
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss
> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.