[arin-discuss] IPv4 allocation conundrum

Sat Apr 17 10:53:11 EDT 2010

I think the fact that ARIN policy states that we need to renumber from private to public, and then renumber again is completely stupid. Allocations from ARIN should be on a *needs* basis only.

-Randy

--
| Randy Carpenter
| V.P., IT Services
| First Network Group, Inc.
| Wapakoneta, OH
| (419)739-9240, x1
--

----- "Lee Howard" <spiffnolee at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Thanks to you both for bringing this to the mailing list.  If we need
> to make
> policy changes, we should move it to the PPML.
> 
> Randy, I'm interested to understand if the upstream providers told you
> any
> reason for not providing address space?  In North America, that's
> unusual.
> 
> Jacob, I'm interested in your topology.  I don't understand your need
> for
> /23 and /24.
> 
> Generally, renumbering needs to be easier.  It's a major point in this
> thread,
> in the IPv6 NAT thread, and in many proposals for smaller
> Provider-Independent
> allocations.  I see a business opportunity for someone to write an
> address
> management system that will provide updated configuration files for
> common
> firewalls, DNS servers (forward and reverse), ACLs, VPN consoles, and
> monitoring systems.
> 
> Lee
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Jacob Epstein <jake at recol.com>
> > To: Randy Carpenter <rcarpen at network1.net>
> > Cc: arin-discuss at arin.net
> > Sent: Sat, April 17, 2010 5:28:26 AM
> > Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] IPv4 allocation conundrum
> > 
> > Hi Randy,
> 
> I am in a similar situation, but already have a /20 allocation. 
> > I can use more public space, but due to our applications which need
> large blocks 
> > (/23 and /24) we end up with open space that we can not chop up and
> reallocate. 
> > For example our broadband Static IP Space or hosting space which are
> flat and 
> > not subnetted. Although we have returned /21 of space to our
> upstreames since 
> > our first allocation in 2003, we have been denied based on the 80%
> use of all IP 
> > space versus allocations based on routing and application.
> 
> FYI, we 
> > orginally applied for a /19 but were advised to return /21 of space
> and reaply 
> > which we did but we denied due to change in policies. So is life!
> 
> My 
> > understanding is that your client should be able qualify for their
> first Arin 
> > allocation. They should then work on moving upstream provided IP
> over to the 
> > Allocation so that they can return upstream space. I haven't seen a
> rule on 
> > this, but its is wise to do so in case you lose or want to change
> upstream 
> > providers. Many of us change upstream providers to get better deals
> or move into 
> > an Exchange Point (IX) peering arrangement.
> 
> Has your customer looked at 
> > the end user allocation process. Here is a link
> 
> 
> >
> href="https://www.arin.net/resources/request/ipv4_initial_assign.html"
> 
> > target=_blank 
> > >https://www.arin.net/resources/request/ipv4_initial_assign.html
> 
> I 
> > did try this in order to open a new datacenter with a /23, and could
> not get 
> > that based on utilization of the current /20. It seems the process
> doesn't care 
> > about the need. So to get us going, I requested a /23 from a new
> upstream 
> > provider to get our business. Later on after we are operational, we
> will migrate 
> > some of our /20 allocation, but its not going to be easy on current
> customers 
> > that will have to be assigned new IP addresses. (DNS Changes, VPN
> Changes, 
> > Security (Access Control) changes. One customer has 80 remote 
> > offices!
> 
> But it seems to me that there has to be a way for smaller 
> > providers with no allocations to obtain blocks and then retun
> upstream blocks as 
> > part of the process.
> 
> Seems that if not, smaller providers starting up or 
> > in our case focused on conservation should go away while the large
> telcos and 
> > broadband provides either "suck the pool dry" or rest on large
> allocations they 
> > got years ago.
> 
> So something sounds strange since need upstream blocks to 
> > get into the business. The Arin contact seems to be saying no one
> gets their 
> > first allocation based on your customer's scenario as I read it
> which is to get 
> > the first allocation. Maybe they do not qualify for /19 but could
> for /20 or 
> > /21.
> 
> FYI, we have been working on IPv6. The new data center will be 
> > native IPv6.
> 
> Good Luck,
> 
> 
> Jake
> 
> -- Jacob Epstein, Chief 
> > Technology Officer
> RECOL, LLC - An Internet Solutions Provider
> web: 
> > http://www.recol.net
> email: 
> > href="mailto:jake at recol.com">jake at recol.com
> 
> 
> 
> Randy Carpenter 
> > wrote:
> > I am working with a new customer who is in a bit of a 
> > pickle...
> > 
> > They are an ISP and VoIP provider whose upstream 
> > provider wouldn't (or couldn't) give them many addresses.
> > They resorted 
> > to using NATed private IPs for most of their network, which is
> causing problems 
> > for their end user customers.
> > 
> > Now that we are working with 
> > them, I am trying to find a solution to get them public IPs. They
> are also soon 
> > to be multi-homed (They have 2 connections, but no BGP yet). As an
> ISP, it would 
> > be best for them to have PI space.
> > 
> > The issue is that one of the 
> > requirements for getting PI space from ARIN is that you are already
> using Public 
> > space that was assigned to you from an upstream provider. I spoke
> with someone 
> > from ARIN who says there is no way around this. The need around a
> /19 of space, 
> > and I cannot find any way to get it for them. The upstream providers
> refuse to 
> > give them any.
> > 
> > What can be done about this?  Would would 
> > there be a requirement of already using someone else's IP space to
> get your own? 
> > That seems like a complete waste of time, effort, money, and IPs!
> > 
> > 
> > -Randy
> > 
> > --
> > | Randy Carpenter
> > | V.P., IT 
> > Services
> > | First Network Group, Inc.
> > | RHCE
> > | 
> > (419)739-9240, x1
> > --
> > 
> > 
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