[arin-discuss] use of not clear

David Farmer farmer at umn.edu
Thu Sep 24 13:12:35 EDT 2009

On 24 Sep 2009 Owen DeLong wrote:

> I agree heroic efforts are misplaced.
> I would not categorize documenting and distributing a /16 as
> being a heroic effort.
> I would not categorize making a simple polite request to InterOp
> to return a /16 so that it can be aggregated into a /12 and offering
> them replacement space if needed to be heroic.
> Much beyond that, I'm in agreement.
> Owen

I agree with Owen, no heroic efforts.  But, clearing up the 
status of and politely asking InterOP to return, with a replacement if necessary, in order to 
reaggregate and make available is not "heroic 
effort", it is "due diligence."

"No heroic efforts" is not the same thing as "no effort at all".

If we expect the world to take us seriously when they actually 
realize they need to do something for the Internet to keep 
growing, upgrade their network, upgrade their computer, 
upgrade their OS, etc...  We have to be able to demonstrate 
that we have done "due diligence" in recovering what can at 
least be easily recovered.

Most people in the world don't realize IP Addresses exist, let 
alone that we are running out of the version of them that most 
people use.  When they finally realize there is a problem they 
are going to want to know what was done about it.

I also agree with the point that there are several legacy /8s 
assigned to large corporations, that in todays world just don't 
seem right.  However, I not sure what can be done about it, 
especially anything that wouldn't be considered "heroic effort".  
The primary non-heroic effort that could be done has, the 
transfer policy.  This should allow these legacy /8 holders to 
transfer some of their addresses to others on a voluntary 

Any attempt to force the return of part or all of the legacy /8s 
would likely end-up in court, which seems like "heroic effort" to 
me.  Even worse, it is  possible to lose in court and end-up with 
rulings that make things worse, rather than better.

David Farmer                                      Email:farmer at umn.edu
Office of Information Technology
Networking & Telecomunication Services
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