[arin-discuss] Good Stewardship by example, I'd like to RETURN a /20

Wed Jul 22 20:23:11 EDT 2009

Wow, so out come the naysayers... "Shut up you little fleas. Don't you  
know that the experts have spoken?  Why study the issue when others  
have already said it is not worth it."

The power of the press and public opinion are pretty powerful.  Does a  
protracted battle against the interests of small ISP types or the  
"Internet community" really suit HP, Apple, or any of the other space  
Easters if in the public eye?  Think about the good will a few have  
gotten on this list by committing to return space..

You don't get what you don't ask for.

Try!  Aim high and risk falling short.  Aiming low is too easy to  
succeed at for a group this bright.

~Vaughn

Sent from my handheld

On Jul 22, 2009, at 7:48 PM, Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> wrote:

>
> On Jul 22, 2009, at 1:06 PM, Steve Wagner wrote:
>
>> As a note it's not just the /8's. I am in Idaho.  The State of  
>> Idaho has a Class B 164.165.0.0 All State government activities sit  
>> behind two different firewalls.
>>
>> Micron technology 137.201.0.0. Sits behind firewalls
>>
>> And so forth into perpetuity it seems
>>
>> In this regard by reclaiming this address space that companies  
>> have, particularly when the coropration sits behind NAT firewalls  
>> is unjustified.  The ones I listed above use  Private address space  
>> behind the firewall i.e. 10.X.X.X etc. So why then would a company  
>> entity that does this need to retain their public Class A, B, C  
>> etc. There is no technical or administrative justification I can see.
>>
>> Nevertheless, there was a comment about pre ARIN and Contract Law.  
>> Unfortunatley this may play the larger role over common sense.
>>
>> While this is not the ultimate solution, it certainly can stem the  
>> tide for many years.
>>
>> It would be an interesting study to examine the allocated IP  
>> address space by entity and determine how many of these  
>> organizations sit behind a NAT firewall, and only use a small  
>> portion of their allocation.
>>
> Reclamation has been repeatedly studied, and, in general, the  
> conclusion matches the following excerpt from a Cisco Journal article:
>
> http://www.cisco.com/web/about/ac123/ac147/archived_issues/ipj_8-3/ipv4.html
>
>> Reclaiming Allocations
>> Another debate occasionally resurfaces about reclaiming some of the  
>> early allocations to further extend the lifetime of IPv4. Hopefully  
>> this article has shown that the ROI for that approach is going to  
>> be extremely low. Discussions around the Internet community show  
>> there is an expectation that it will take several years of  
>> substantive negotiation (in multiple court systems around the  
>> globe) to retrieve any /8s. Then following that effort and expense,  
>> the likelihood of even getting back more than a few /8 blocks is  
>> very low. Following the allocation growth trend, after several  
>> years of litigation the result is likely to be just a few months of  
>> additional resource added to the pool—and possibly not even a whol 
>> e month. All this assumes IANA does not completely run out before  
>> getting any back, because running out would result in pentup deman 
>> d that could immediately exhaust any returns.
>
>
> If you can come up with credible figures indicating that there are  
> at least 28 /8s worth of reclaimable space out there, then,  
> reclamation efforts might be more interesting, but, I tend to doubt  
> that is the case. If you can't reclaim at least 14 /8s, you don't  
> even buy an additional year.
>
> Owen
>
>>
>> Regards,
>> Steve Wagner
>> Vice President of Operations
>> Syringa Networks, LLC
>> 3795 S Development Ave, Suite 100
>> Boise, ID 83705
>> Office: 208.229.6104
>> Main: 208.229.6100
>> Emergency: 1.800.454.7214
>> Fax: 208.229.6110
>> Email: Stwagner at syringanetworks.net
>> Web: www.syringanetworks.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Idaho's Premier Fiber Optic Network"
>>
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>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-discuss- 
>> bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of John Osmon
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 1:43 PM
>> To: arin-discuss at arin.net
>> Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] Good Stewardship by example, I'd like  
>> to RETURN a /20
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 01:32:19PM -0400, Joe Maimon wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> John Osmon wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> We're aren't going to save the IPv4 world by returning space, but
>>>> we *will* make it easier on soe folks that are coming to the table
>>>> (relatively) late.
>>>
>>> Hate to be a downer, but not at the current burn rate.
>>
>> Actually, I agree -- but don't tell the folks that think getting
>> a couple of /8s back from HP, Apple, and the DOD is going to  
>> significant
>> difference in the timing of IPv4 exhaustion.  :-)
>>
>> I still think that anything you aren't using should go back to the
>> pool that allows new comers a chance to participate in
>> commerce/communication.  I don't, however, think that a slew of
>> /20s (or /8s) are going to make a big impact.
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