[arin-discuss] Food for thought: IPv4 accountability.
Ted Mittelstaedt
tedm at ipinc.net
Tue Jul 21 19:58:01 EDT 2009
If people NEED IPv4 after runout (as opposed to merely liking to have
some), then a transfer market will
exist, and those unused IPv4 numbers of HP and Apple will suddenly
have a transferable value - and as long as HP and Apple continue to sit
on them, they lose that money. It's no different than charging them
a fee to where they then lose money paying the fee. Either way,
they lose money. The only difference is who gets the money they lose.
Apple and HP only DON'T lose money if a transfer market never forms
and that block of numbers never gains value. In which case nobody will
be bugging ARIN to start charging them a fee.
Either way, it works the same.
Ted
John Brown wrote:
> So the challenge for ARIN, is what legal right do they have to assess a
> fee on Apple or HP (to use them as an example here)??
>
> When Apple or HP got their space in the late 1980's there was no fee as
> part of the "contract".
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Steve Wagner [mailto:stwagner at syringanetworks.net]
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 5:38 PM
>> To: John Brown; Mike Horwath; Nathaniel B. Lyon
>> Cc: ARIN Discussion List
>> Subject: RE: [arin-discuss] Food for thought: IPv4 accountability.
>>
>> If either Apple or HP corporate network sits behind a NAT
>> firewall, they do not need the address space you speak about,
>> i.e. 40 million. In this regard may charging those type of
>> entities for the address space they use, may result in them
>> returning this address space to the allocation pool. This
>> would be true for any other end user entity as well that uses
>> a NAT type firewall
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> Steve Wagner
>> Vice President of Operations
>> Syringa Networks, LLC
>> 3795 S Development Ave, Suite 100
>> Boise, ID 83705
>> Office: 208.229.6104
>> Main: 208.229.6100
>> Emergency: 1.800.454.7214
>> Fax: 208.229.6110
>> Email: Stwagner at syringanetworks.net
>> Web: www.syringanetworks.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Idaho's Premier Fiber Optic Network"
>>
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>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net
>> [mailto:arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of John Brown
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 5:18 PM
>> To: Mike Horwath; Nathaniel B. Lyon
>> Cc: ARIN Discussion List
>> Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] Food for thought: IPv4 accountability.
>>
>> I think that the other ARIN RIR's do a better job of managing
>> the actual
>> usage ratios. Lots of US service providers have space allocated or
>> assigned to downstream customers and those customers don't exist any
>> more.
>>
>> The cost for provider X to tightly manage their space is
>> higher than the
>> cost of them just getting new space. So it doesn't happen. I could
>> give multiple specific examples, at the risk of putting a public spot
>> light on those providers. :|
>>
>> I believe that the early end user entities that got gobs of
>> space should
>> return the space they aren't using.
>>
>> Does Apple Computer really need a /8 ???
>> Does HP really need a /8 ??
>>
>> Do both of those entities really need 40 million+ IP addresses ??
>>
>> For the specific issue of why Mr. Horwath can't get space, I
>> don't know.
>> He fails to articulate specifics and only talks with a broad brush.
>>
>> I do know the ARIN staff and they are reasonable people doing
>> good work
>> under the guidelines they have.
>>
>> If there is some injustice on Mr. Horwath's allocation
>> request, I'm sure
>> it can be resolved.
>>
>> So to that end I'll offer a few minutes of my time to privately work
>> with him on his allocation request and see if it passes
>> muster and what
>> may need to be done to help it float.
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net
>>> [mailto:arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of Mike Horwath
>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 3:48 PM
>>> To: Nathaniel B. Lyon
>>> Cc: ARIN Discussion List
>>> Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] Food for thought: IPv4 accountability.
>>>
>>> Hi.
>>>
>>> This issue and scare of IPv4 going away, running out of
>>> space, I hear rice cakes are tasty - has been going on for
>>> way too long.
>>>
>>> I started my first ISP in 1993 and was told then that I
>>> needed to be stingy with my allocation. 16 years later, same
>>> mantra, same boys with their toys who don't want to share the pool.
>>>
>>> The issues of accountability go back to the mid/late-1990s
>>> when it was posed that companies/institutions/government be
>>> held to the same standards as joe schmoe consumer of
>>> netblocks. Search the mailing list archives, I am sure you
>>> will find commentary in regular spats.
>>>
>>> This isn't going to change, unfortunately.
>>>
>>> The old boys club is just that: a club of old boys who have
>>> benefits for themselves. They even have a sign on their
>>> clubhouse that states 'No Girlz'. (the rest of us are the
>>> girlz if that wasn't obvious)
>>>
>>> BUT: you too can join the club: just rewind time by about 20
>>> years, get in on the ground floor 'IP Address Give Away'
>>> stock offering.
>>>
>>> Or do what others do, buy larger netblock holding companies: PROFIT
>>>
>>> If I sound a little bitter, I apologize. The playing field
>>> should be level when it comes to this resource. It never has
>>> been. I don't think it ever will be.
>>>
>>> I said it, you read it, I can't take it back.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mike Horwath ipHouse - Welcome home! drechsau at iphouse.net
>>> The universe is an island, surrounded by whatever it is
>>> that surrounds universes. - Berkely Fortune
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