[arin-discuss] ARIN spammed us with "talk to the hand" ?

[Stevens, Jack F[EQ]]

We had some major issues with this with the allocation in the 63.0.0.0/8 that we got from ARIN last year.  It took multiple attempts with each of the providers to get the geolocation updated with them.  Most of the complaints from our DSL customers were about the Spanish version of Google coming up.


Jack

-----Original Message-----
From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of Brad Anouar
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 10:28 PM
To: arin-discuss at arin.net
Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] ARIN spammed us with "talk to the hand" ?

Has anyone experienced any issues relating to this? We are using a little subnet in the 63.0.0.0/8 IP space, but so far so good. I will have to research this online to find out if there are any proactive measures worth taking.

Brad


-----Original Message-----
From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of Scott Berkman
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 7:02 PM
To: 'Kelvin Williams'; arin-discuss at arin.net
Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] ARIN spammed us with "talk to the hand" ?

My best guess is this is exactly what they were trying to avoid.  I bet it they have been getting inundated themselves with calls/emails about these issues, but can't actually fix it since they don't control their services.

I'd do something similar if my customers were flooding us about an issue that wasn't our fault and we couldn't fix on our own.

Not saying they couldn't have had a better, more helpful email, but I get why they sent it.

	-Scott

-----Original Message-----
From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net]
On Behalf Of Kelvin Williams
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 9:55 PM
To: arin-discuss at arin.net
Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] ARIN spammed us with "talk to the hand" ?

I would have to concur.  As a current holder of a block in the affected ranges our helpdesk has been inundated with complaint calls from our end-users.  For example, Google redirects our users with IPs in the affected ranges to their German version, etc.  

While we haven't experienced any true routing issues, we have tried to contact some of the content providers and companies like Google to no avail.


At the bare minimum, ARIN could have provided to block holders via the new superduper secure website contact numbers or e-mail addresses to the organizations which we know are causing these types of issues.  We have all but abandoned any hopes of resolving the issue and merely crossed our fingers in hopes that these content and geo-location providers would re-query ARIN's WHOIS at some time in the immediate future.  

I can't speak for all, but at our company, we don't have anyone available to research for contacts, fill out web-forms-to-nowhere, or leave voicemails all day in mailboxes that don't get checked.

kw


-----Original Message-----
From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net]
On Behalf Of Sean Cheesman
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 9:40 PM
To: Scott Leibrand; Jo Rhett
Cc: arin-discuss at arin.net
Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] ARIN spammed us with "talk to the hand" ?

I disagree that this was a reasonable statement from ARIN.  They listed no examples of what "content providers" are causing problems, and only leave it up to us to determine if there is a problem, and then try to resolve it on our own.  Yes, it may now be easier to troubleshoot a problem because now I may say "hey, didn't I get an email from ARIN a while back warning me of a problem?" but that doesn't really help me be proactive about the issue.

Sean

-----Original Message-----
From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net]
On Behalf Of Scott Leibrand
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 9:36 PM
To: Jo Rhett
Cc: arin-discuss at arin.net
Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] ARIN spammed us with "talk to the hand" ?

Jo,

I was not involved in any discussions around that notice, but when I got it, I interpreted it as saying, "We're aware of a problem, and believe it may affect a lot of you.  We can't fix it for you, but here's what you need to know to get it fixed if you're affected."

Quite reasonable, IMO.

-Scott

Jo Rhett wrote:
> Can someone explain to me why ARIN spammed all of our ARIN contacts 
> (including (A)buse contacts!) with a notice that says "talk to the 
> hand" ?
>
>
>> If you or your peers experience any of these types of problems, you 
>> are encouraged to contact and work with third-party information 
>> software vendors and/or the content providers directly to effect 
>> changes.
>>
>
> If ARIN can not and will not do anything to contact these parties and 
> get it resolved, why does it send a notice telling us with this?  Next 
> week will we see a notice that ARIN won't be involved in saving 
> starving children in Africa?  I imagine that ARIN will be very busy 
> informing us of every thing it does not plan to work on ... is this 
> helpful?  Honestly?
>
> Entire message below:
>
>> Per a request from an ARIN customer, ARIN is sending you this letter 
>> as a courtesy notification of problems some registrants of 
>> ARIN-issued
>> IPv4
>> addresses have experienced.
>>
>> Some geolocation and content providers are misidentifying ARIN-issued 
>> address space as being outside the ARIN region. Common problems 
>> experienced by ARIN registrants over the last two years include:
>>
>> - search engines misidentifying the addresses as being in South 
>> America;
>> - content caching providers sending traffic via nodes in South 
>> America; and
>> - e-commerce transactions failing or being delaying due to fraud 
>> prevention procedures being triggered when the payment processing 
>> system believes the transaction is originating in South America.
>>
>> Registrants have experienced these problems both with new IANA- 
>> issued /8s (like 173.0.0.0/8 and 174.0.0.0/8) and with /8s which ARIN 
>> has issued and re-issued over many years (like 63.0.0.0/8).
>>
>> If you or your peers experience any of these types of problems, you 
>> are encouraged to contact and work with third-party information 
>> software vendors and/or the content providers directly to effect 
>> changes.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Leslie Nobile
>> Director, Registration Services
>> American Registry for Internet Numbers
>>
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