[arin-discuss] [arin-ppml] Fee proposal (wasRe: Alternativetoarbitrarytransfers)

Tue Apr 7 20:50:15 EDT 2009

Joe,

A very excellent point!  I see many customer opportunities come through
where they are asking for a commit of 1M to 10M commit on a Metro
Ethernet link and want (demand) a /24.  Going to the usage policy I just
can't see 128 hosts on that small of a connection!  Most of the time
they simply are too small to have an IT department, do not want to set
up NAT, and/or want all public IP space.

For the savvy customers that want to do Multi Homed BGP I send them to
one of the other larger providers to get the diverse circuit and a /24.
They come back every time with a nice fat block that they run 1M to 2M
with a hand full of hosts.....

And never try to bring up charging for a "static" IP like cable or DLS
providers do.  The customer will go ballistic every time about how the
Internet is FREE!  :)

Cheers,

John 

Steps off soap box...

-----Original Message-----
From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net
[mailto:arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of Joe Maimon
Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 5:17 PM
To: Alexander, Daniel
Cc: arin-discuss at arin.net
Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] [arin-ppml] Fee proposal (wasRe:
Alternativetoarbitrarytransfers)

Alexander, Daniel wrote:
> Ted,
resources is not because they are cheap, or easy to come by. It is 
because they are connecting end users (I assume you are one of them) to 
the Internet. The growth, and very existence of an ISP is based on the 
services they provide and the revenue these services generate.
> 
> The fact that IPv4 is running out is the single largest incentive any
ISP needs to deploy IPv6. 

So why hasnt it happened yet?

> and are more often passed along to the consumer. 

Consider that currently the fee for ip address passed on to the consumer

is effectively zero, that would actually be good thing.

Compare the annual cost to a provider of an end-user /29 (Leased line, 
non residential) and per IP (residental/soho) based upon ARIN's current 
fee schedule. Rounded.

X-Small 1250 per /21 = 4.8 (0.6)
Small 2250 per /19 or /20 = 2.2 or 4.4 (.28 or .54)
Medium 4500 per /16 /17 /18 = .54 1.09 2.19 (.07 .14 .28)
Large 9000 per /14 /15 = .27 .55 (.03 .07)
X-Large 18000 /8 /9 /10 /11 /12 /13 = .01 .02 .03 .07 .14 .27 (.001 .002

.004 .01 .02 .03)

When sprint or cogent or att signs up a T1 customer, the customers /29 
costs them as little as one cent annually. If the customer demands a 
/24, they barely care.

When any ISP grossing under a few million a year signs up a T1 customer,

  the /29 can cost them up to 5 bucks. A /24 is a serious customer 
relation issue.

This is why for the history of the internet, end users got their space 
free, because a small provider cannot compete by charging fees large 
providers dont even bother thinking about.

The big boys have been getting quite the free ride for the entire 
history of the net - and they are the ones using up all the addresses.

Who do you think is calling the shots here?

Quite possibly they are the ones inefficiently wasting them as well.

Which network has the incentive to track their usage tightly? To be 
strict with allocations? To be inventive in their utilization so as to 
minimize the unnecessary?

Not the one where each address cost less than a penny.

And the more you waste now, the more you will be able to scavenge later.

Why do you expect the end user to want ipv6? Ipv4 is great and costs 
them nothing. This will need to change.

Of course, I am omitting the overhead costs, but those are a lot harder 
to quantify and their impact may be negligible.

When runout happens, assuming a provider cannot get any more ipv4 for 
whatever reason, they will scavenge internally. Then they will charge 
per ip address, incentivizing their user-base to go ipv6-only.

Joe
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