[arin-discuss] Is a review of fee structure called for due toimpending IPv4 runout?

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

Artur,

  To recap, post IPv4 runout there will be "dirty" 
IPv4 coming into ARIN for allocation.  Thus, ARIN will still 
be in the business of administering IPv4, the IPv4 fee 
schedule simply won't be discarded.

  It will cost more to adminster IPv4 because rather
than going to a list of IPv4 that has never been used,
ARIN will have to spend labor verifying that the dirty
IPv4 coming in is indeed not in use, valid to give out,
etc.

  Additionally, if many of the proposals to scavenge
IPv4 are passed, or if the whois cleanup proposals
are passed, those things will cost more money, and thus
even more will be spent on IPv4 administration.

  You sound almost like you would want ARIN to cease
all activity with assigning IPv4 post-runout.  Currently
though, ARIN has no authority to do this.

  The ARIN membership directed ARIN to have fees cover
costs.  Since costs for managing IPv4 will likely rise,
the fees for IPv4 will likely rise as well.  For orgs that
do not want to pay more money, they can always turn back
in their IPv4 and just use IPv6.

  If what you really want is to see YOUR fee for your
yearly IPv4 administration to go down, then you might
want to read the entire post and think about some
of the suggestions at the bottom.

Ted

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Artur (eBoundHost) [mailto:artur at eboundhost.com] 
> Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 2:18 PM
> To: Ted Mittelstaedt; arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net; 
> arin-discuss at arin.net
> Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] Is a review of fee structure 
> called for due toimpending IPv4 runout?
> 
> 
> Maybe I'm short sighted but I think fee changes is the wrong 
> way to go. There is already an incentive to move to ip6, the 
> shortage of ip4. If you want to encourage the migration then 
> you need to continue to hand out ipv4 at whatever rate it is 
> requested. When the time comes the solution will be a natural 
> one, ipv6 will be the only thing available. 
> 
> Also as I understand that ARIN charges these fees in a 
> not-for-profit structure?  I don't mind paying a yearly 
> maintenance fee for infrastructure but definitely object to 
> punitive fees to maintain legacy equipment. 
>  
> Best Regards,
> 
> Artur
> eBoundHost
> http://www.eboundhost.com
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Ted Mittelstaedt" <tedm at ipinc.net>
> 
> Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 13:57:50 
> To: <arin-discuss at arin.net>
> Subject: [arin-discuss] Is a review of fee structure called for due to
> 	impending IPv4 runout?
> 
> 
> 
> A point was raised in a recent thread that the current fees 
> for IPv4 could be adjusted in the years and months closer to 
> IPv4 runout - currently projected sometime around 2011 - that 
> might accomplish the following:
> 
> 1) Buy some more time before the actual date of IPv4 runout 
> from ARIN by slowing applications.
> 
> 2) Discourage hoarders who are hoping that an "IPv4 market" 
> will appear post-runout
> 
> Currently, the fees for IPv4 are set to cover the cost of
> ARIN administration of IPv4.
> 
> IT SEEMS TO ME that IF proposals such as "POC cleanup" and 
> "ARIN refereeing IPv4 sales" go into operation, that the 
> administration of IPv4 WILL BECOME MORE EXPENSIVE and thus 
> EVEN WITHOUT ANY MEMBERSHIP DIRECTION that ARIN will need to 
> RAISE IPv4 fees.
> 
> Post IPv4 runout, there will STILL be orgs that go bankrupt
> and release their IPv4 allocations, there will still be orgs 
> willing to "trade in" fragmented IPv4 blocks hoping to gain 
> larger blocks, and there still will be orgs that merge and 
> give up IPv4 as a result.  In short, there will be "dirty" 
> IPv4 coming into ARIN for allocation.  Thus, ARIN will still 
> be in the business of administering IPv4, the IPv4 fee 
> schedule simply won't be discarded.
> 
> It also MIGHT BE ADVANTAGEOUS for ARIN to CREDIT orgs that 
> "turn in" IPv4 post-IPv4 runout.  For example if an org has a 
> few extra IPv4 subnets that aren't part of a larger 
> aggregate, perhaps a few years of credit on their bill might 
> convince them to turn them back into ARIN for reallocation.
> 
> AND, it might also be advantgeous for ARIN to pay a "bounty"
> on "information leading to the recovery of abandonded IPv4" 
> basically, paying for people to give them documentation that 
> shows that a legacy holding is defunct.  After all, ARIN 
> would have to pay labor time to research this anyway, if it 
> engages in it itself.  Why not pay some IPv4 bounty hunters?
> 
> In short, fee changes are coming even if we do nothing - so
> why not do something?
> 
> Ted 
> 
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