[arin-discuss] Dean -vs- Eddy... again.

[Edward B. DREGER]

Dean,


If you _really_ care to pursue this, set up a mailing list on one of
your servers.  These topics seem well-suited to iadl.org.  Let's spare
the ARIN membership, who repeatedly has protested this little spats --
which are happening with great regularity.

Thas said, false public accusations must be corrected.  This will be my
last post in this round of ARIN/Dean/whatever-you-call-it.  At the end
of the day, these diatribes hurt all who are involved.


> Dreger is a frequent NANOG participant.

I've attended one NANOG.  A better term might be "frequent NANOG-L
poster".  I have dealt with people you cite (Vixie, Bellovin, et cetera)
even less than I have with you.  Anyone interested in your background,
my background, or anyone's background, can start by searching public
archives.


> most (all?) of the people posting attacks on me are NANOG members

Perhaps that's because NANOG members have dealt with you before.  It
would not make sense for those who have not come in contact with you to
post attacks.


> Funny how a small minority is in control of ARIN

Let's examine that small minority: long-time industry exposure, and
greatly affected by ARIN decisions.  It's quite logical that such people
would participate actively.


> I was removed from all ARIN mailing lists, and prevented from
> participating in the last ARIN meeting electronically.

Then do something about it.  If your claims are true, then you're in a
great position to stop any abuse of power.  One could even argue that
you would be negligent in _not_ keeping ARIN in line, lest they begin
down a slippery slope that harms all members.

I've been critical of ARIN before.  I have no particular loyalty to
them.  However, based on my own personal experience of how you have
attempted to characterize me, I am not comfortable pointing any fingers
at ARIN based on the veracity of your claims.


> (Vixie) has been successfull sued for doing that previously.

Exactis/MAPS was vacated without prejudice, and never tried again.  It
seems that "settled out of court" would be a more accurate description.


> (I think Dreger was among them)

I don't believe that I was posting to NANOG in 1999.  One can examine
the archives.


> Generally, people who continue to associate with questionable and
> ruthless people

You claim that various people are questionable and ruthless.  They say
the same about you.  You claim that precedent backs your position.  They
say the same about their beliefs.

In the absence of any formal proceedings, we all are judged in the court
of public opinion.  Those who are not part of "the NANOG cartel" express
desires for these discussions to happen elsewhere.  These spats only
help, relatively speaking, those who stand to lose the least.


> you seem to have little evidence of any ridiculous claim of mine

I didn't want to drag the list into the match that it is becoming.  That
said, the following come readily to mind:

1. You claim that open relaying is acceptable;

2. You claim that SMTP+AUTH is unacceptable because it isn't a standard;

3. Your statements of others' positions (e.g., on the ECPA) does not
match what they claim to state.

Again, why not set up a mailing list on one of your systems?  You're all
but guaranteed not to be censored, you get to choose the list charter,
and those interested can debate/argue/fight without annoying the rest
of ARIN's membership.  Let people represent their own positions; then
there will be no disagreement over who is twisting whose words.

Unfortunately, I must return to work.  As much fun as this could be (on
a list where people _want_ to read it), actual business also calls.

Please post instructions for joining your mailing list(s).


Eddy
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