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<p class="MsoNormal">To identify the abusers you would simply have to look at the list of voters and what ORG ID’s they have control over. If they don’t work for the company they shouldn’t be controlling its votes.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I don’t agree that proxy should exist. And yes it is another form of voter abuse. Clearly, we will not agree on this.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Marla Azinger | SPVR, IP Management<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">O 585-413-9128 | <a href="mailto:marla.azinger@ftr.com"><span style="color:#0563C1">marla.azinger@ftr.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><img border="0" width="138" height="52" style="width:1.4375in;height:.5416in" id="_x0000_i1042" src="cid:image001.png@01D8062A.0A21A5C0"><img border="0" width="24" height="24" style="width:.25in;height:.25in" id="_x0000_i1041" src="cid:image002.png@01D8062A.0A21A5C0">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Adam Thompson <athompson@merlin.mb.ca> <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, January 10, 2022 1:54 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Azinger, Marla <Marla.Azinger@FTR.com>; andrew.dul@quark.net; arin-consult@arin.net<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [ARIN-consult] Consultation on Implementing Single Transferrable Voting for ARIN Elections<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">There are two big reasons: apathy and limited staff time. Most small ISPs simply don’t care about ARIN governance, 99.999% of the time, and don’t have time to learn enough to discover how/what/when/where they should
care. ARIN is just a force of nature they have to content with when they need more resources…<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">In general, I don’t agree with you, at least not entirely: if a contractor is voting in the best interests of a client, with the client’s full knowledge, and is doing so for more than one client simultaneously, that’s
still 100% legit. Expecting company owners to maintain a PoC and vote is not realistic, at least based on all the company owners I know (with perhaps a lone exception). And there is validation, of sorts: if someone votes against the interests of their client,
a) they’re cutting their own throat, albeit indirectly, and b) if it’s discovered, they likely get fired or equivalent.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">So If someone has voting rights for an org that they have no legal/contractual relationship with, then that’s an odd situation. Either it’s “legacy”, i.e. left over from when it was legit, which is very hard to fix in
general, or it’s a situation that probably should never have happened in the first place. I’d be happy to see ways to solve those problems… assuming there’s any evidence whatsoever that it’s actually a problem in the first place.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">-Adam<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#44546A;background:white">Adam Thompson</span></b><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:9.0pt;color:#44546A;background:white"><br>
Consultant, Infrastructure Services<br>
<img border="0" width="128" height="39" style="width:1.3333in;height:.4062in" id="Picture_x0020_10" src="cid:image005.png@01D8062A.0A21A5C0" alt="MERLIN"><br>
100 - 135 Innovation Drive<br>
Winnipeg, MB, R3T 6A8<br>
(204) 977-6824 or 1-800-430-6404 (MB only)<br>
<a href="mailto:athompson@merlin.mb.ca" target="_blank">athompson@merlin.mb.ca</a><br>
<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.merlin.mb.ca/__;!!M2UytebrhrTR!eqdKUWFgrdNnlUOh2EI-oFETtgpJtz7T7PmhXF9h3YIx1XAMo5-wLaC2LnrmVsNx$" target="_blank">www.merlin.mb.ca</a></span><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Azinger, Marla <<a href="mailto:Marla.Azinger@FTR.com">Marla.Azinger@FTR.com</a>>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, January 10, 2022 3:01 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Adam Thompson <<a href="mailto:athompson@merlin.mb.ca">athompson@merlin.mb.ca</a>>;
<a href="mailto:andrew.dul@quark.net">andrew.dul@quark.net</a>; <a href="mailto:arin-consult@arin.net">
arin-consult@arin.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [ARIN-consult] Consultation on Implementing Single Transferrable Voting for ARIN Elections<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">If ARIN is looking for people that actually want to be involved to cast the voting and really care, the votes would best be cast by anything other than a proxy.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I find proxy voters don’t always care what the desire of the company is and there is no validation being done they casted votes how the owner of the vote would actually want.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I’m not a fan of proxy this day in age. Proxy to me is a throw back to before online voting occurred. There’s no reason a company cant vote on their own.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Marla Azinger | SPVR, IP Management<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">O 585-413-9128 | <a href="mailto:marla.azinger@ftr.com"><span style="color:#0563C1">marla.azinger@ftr.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><img border="0" width="138" height="52" style="width:1.4375in;height:.5416in" id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image006.png@01D8062A.0A21A5C0"><img border="0" width="24" height="24" style="width:.25in;height:.25in" id="_x0000_i1027" src="cid:image007.png@01D8062A.0A21A5C0"><img border="0" width="24" height="24" style="width:.25in;height:.25in" id="_x0000_i1028" src="cid:image008.png@01D8062A.0A21A5C0"> <img border="0" width="24" height="24" style="width:.25in;height:.25in" id="_x0000_i1029" src="cid:image009.png@01D8062A.0A21A5C0"> <span style="color:#E74C3C"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.frontier.com__;!!M2UytebrhrTR!eqdKUWFgrdNnlUOh2EI-oFETtgpJtz7T7PmhXF9h3YIx1XAMo5-wLaC2LofU2RgS$"><span style="color:#0563C1">www.frontier.com</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Adam Thompson <<a href="mailto:athompson@merlin.mb.ca">athompson@merlin.mb.ca</a>>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, January 10, 2022 12:02 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Azinger, Marla <<a href="mailto:Marla.Azinger@FTR.com">Marla.Azinger@FTR.com</a>>;
<a href="mailto:andrew.dul@quark.net">andrew.dul@quark.net</a>; <a href="mailto:arin-consult@arin.net">
arin-consult@arin.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [ARIN-consult] Consultation on Implementing Single Transferrable Voting for ARIN Elections<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">Not sure that’s low-hanging fruit, tbh. Besides MERLIN, I still have voting rights for … 3? local ISPs, who are all aware of that and OK with that. In any other arena, that’s just holding a proxy vote, which is not
a big deal.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">What sort of problems have you seen in this area (that I obviously haven’t)?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">-Adam<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#44546A;background:white">Adam Thompson</span></b><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:9.0pt;color:#44546A;background:white"><br>
Consultant, Infrastructure Services<br>
<img border="0" width="128" height="39" style="width:1.3333in;height:.4062in" id="Picture_x0020_5" src="cid:image005.png@01D8062A.0A21A5C0" alt="MERLIN"><br>
100 - 135 Innovation Drive<br>
Winnipeg, MB, R3T 6A8<br>
(204) 977-6824 or 1-800-430-6404 (MB only)<br>
<a href="mailto:athompson@merlin.mb.ca" target="_blank">athompson@merlin.mb.ca</a><br>
<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.merlin.mb.ca/__;!!M2UytebrhrTR!c2ZEjGLTpLzzB0NcqRhddq0ebLp4mUbzhD5ajlW6BmGWGO6t7IJUsP104NmK_RnB$" target="_blank">www.merlin.mb.ca</a></span><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> ARIN-consult <<a href="mailto:arin-consult-bounces@arin.net">arin-consult-bounces@arin.net</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Azinger, Marla<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, January 10, 2022 1:53 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:andrew.dul@quark.net">andrew.dul@quark.net</a>; <a href="mailto:arin-consult@arin.net">
arin-consult@arin.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [ARIN-consult] Consultation on Implementing Single Transferrable Voting for ARIN Elections<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">All of this is gaming no matter how you slice it. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Silly me. I looked at the title and thought efforts were under way to stop one person from casting votes for companies they don’t actually work for but I didn’t read that in the write up. I would have thought we’d start there… if anything
needs modification…<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Marla Azinger | SPVR, IP Management<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">O 585-413-9128 | <a href="mailto:marla.azinger@ftr.com"><span style="color:#0563C1">marla.azinger@ftr.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><img border="0" width="138" height="52" style="width:1.4375in;height:.5416in" id="Picture_x0020_8" src="cid:image010.png@01D8062A.0A21A5C0"><img border="0" width="24" height="24" style="width:.25in;height:.25in" id="Picture_x0020_2" src="cid:image011.png@01D8062A.0A21A5C0"><img border="0" width="24" height="24" style="width:.25in;height:.25in" id="Picture_x0020_3" src="cid:image012.png@01D8062A.0A21A5C0"> <img border="0" width="24" height="24" style="width:.25in;height:.25in" id="Picture_x0020_4" src="cid:image013.png@01D8062A.0A21A5C0"> <span style="color:#E74C3C"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.frontier.com__;!!M2UytebrhrTR!c2ZEjGLTpLzzB0NcqRhddq0ebLp4mUbzhD5ajlW6BmGWGO6t7IJUsP104CKB559o$"><span style="color:#0563C1">www.frontier.com</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> ARIN-consult <<a href="mailto:arin-consult-bounces@arin.net">arin-consult-bounces@arin.net</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Andrew Dul<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, January 10, 2022 11:40 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:arin-consult@arin.net">arin-consult@arin.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [ARIN-consult] Consultation on Implementing Single Transferrable Voting for ARIN Elections<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:red">WARNING:</span>
</b><b><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black">External email. Please verify sender before opening attachments or clicking on links.</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Perhaps a simple question, but "how" will the current board insure that future board(s) do not capriciously change the election mechanisms in the future?
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Making the changes to the "election process" subject to a majority vote of the membership and having that right inserted into the bylaws might be one method...<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Andrew<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On 1/7/2022 10:31 AM, Peter Harrison wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Adam,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">As stated before, it is the Board's fiduciary responsibility to ensure that a change of this magnitude is equitable and not vulnerable to capricious change. We will act appropriately based on this feedback.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Peter<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, Jan 7, 2022 at 10:03 AM Adam Thompson <<a href="mailto:athompson@merlin.mb.ca">athompson@merlin.mb.ca</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-CA">Peter, I don’t have a problem with STV. I do have a problem with the board having the latitude – unfettered – to keep changing voting systems without further
bylaw amendments. The type of voting structure, particularly when deviating from the norm that’s baked into Virginia law, should then be baked into the bylaws so that it can’t change in the middle of the night, perhaps even during an election.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-CA"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-CA">Do I trust the current board to not pull stuff like that? Yeah, probably, I think... (In fact, can I even name the current board members? No. But that’s a
different problem.) Am I willing to blindly trust every future board that might exist? Absolutely not. I’ve seen how boards can be co-opted, infiltrated, and/or “turned to the dark side” (so to speak) elsewhere.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-CA"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-CA">As far as the consultation’s goal to determine whether STV is OK or not? Yes, it is good. This is an excellent move overall.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-CA"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-CA">-Adam<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-CA"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#44546A;background:white">Adam Thompson</span></b><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:9.0pt;color:#44546A;background:white"><br>
Consultant, Infrastructure Services<br>
<img border="0" width="128" height="39" style="width:1.3333in;height:.4062in" id="gmail-m_-8947897950299704916Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image005.png@01D8062A.0A21A5C0" alt="MERLIN"><br>
100 - 135 Innovation Drive<br>
Winnipeg, MB, R3T 6A8<br>
(204) 977-6824 or 1-800-430-6404 (MB only)<br>
<a href="mailto:athompson@merlin.mb.ca" target="_blank">athompson@merlin.mb.ca</a><br>
<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.merlin.mb.ca/__;!!M2UytebrhrTR!ZZ9nY7Iqm8q8pZkxsQXDwXKKBYnBxxrhgUQsk72I0lQSknZQozPO16VzGTEuxAE9$" target="_blank">www.merlin.mb.ca</a></span><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b>From:</b> ARIN-consult <<a href="mailto:arin-consult-bounces@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-consult-bounces@arin.net</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Peter Harrison<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, January 7, 2022 11:53 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:arin-consult@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-consult@arin.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [ARIN-consult] Consultation on Implementing Single Transferrable Voting for ARIN Elections<span lang="EN-CA"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-CA">Dear Community,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt" id="gmail-m_-8947897950299704916gmail-docs-internal-guid-c0cdbbcd-7fff-c39e-0ad5-5083307050e7">
<span lang="EN-CA" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">With STV there are many ways to re-allocate votes, and new ones may be invented. The videos presented previously illustrated one method. </span><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">This link explains some of the options:
<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranked_voting*Comparison_of_ranked_voting_methods__;Iw!!M2UytebrhrTR!ZZ9nY7Iqm8q8pZkxsQXDwXKKBYnBxxrhgUQsk72I0lQSknZQozPO16VzGa2rUE66$" target="_blank">
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranked_voting#Comparison_of_ranked_voting_methods</a></span><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">We will need to balance the range of options with those provided by current and future vendors of ARIN’s voting systems. Investigations are being
made by staff and they will make recommendations to the board based on their research into our needs, best practices, practicability, relative merit, legal implications and systems availability. </span><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">The purpose of the consultation is to get a sense of whether this is a good idea overall. The board will work hard to ensure that we are working
in the best interest of the members and the region they serve when evaluating the choices presented.</span><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">As John explained, the bylaw modification was made to accommodate multiple forms of voting that may be required in future. The concern that this
could lead to opportunistic changes to systems each election cycle is sound. We will investigate ways to ensure this does not happen with possible bylaw wording to meet these and other goals.</span><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">The Governance Working Group has worked very closely with both the executive team and staff on this consultation. Their support for a workable
solution and concern for the membership has been evident every step of the way. These consultations are the result of over two years of research and were not taken lightly. We will continue to work to maintain this excellent collaboration.</span><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Thank you for your feedback.</span><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-CA">Peter<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>ARIN-Consult<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Consult Mailing<o:p></o:p></pre>
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<pre>Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-consult__;!!M2UytebrhrTR!ZZ9nY7Iqm8q8pZkxsQXDwXKKBYnBxxrhgUQsk72I0lQSknZQozPO16VzGbGFSPIU$">https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-consult</a> Please contact the ARIN Member Services<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Help Desk at <a href="mailto:info@arin.net">info@arin.net</a> if you experience any issues.<o:p></o:p></pre>
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