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Steve -
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<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"></span>As I responded to you on this same assertion on this same list in April 2018 - </div>
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<div class=""><i class=""><b class="">"Steve -</b></i></div>
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</i><i class="">As discussed perviously on several ARIN mailing lists with you, ARIN does prevent</i><i class=""> parties with no clear association with a resource from making changes. I believe that </i><i class="">the specific issue has been cleared up in
your case, but recognize that ARIN is also </i><i class="">subject to parties attempting to hijack resources and thus is somewhat pedantic in this </i><i class="">regard. "</i></b></blockquote>
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<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"></span>There’s quite a bit to contest in your assertions, but suffice to say that ARIN provided services throughout the time and complied with policies as set by this community – if you believe
that you were not provided everything entitled, the agreement contains provisions for handling disputes as necessary. </div>
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<div class="">Best wishes,</div>
<div class="">/John</div>
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<div class="">John Curran</div>
<div class="">President and CEO</div>
<div class="">American Registry for Internet Numbers</div>
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<div class="">On 10 May 2021, at 2:38 PM, Steve Noble <<a href="mailto:snoble@sonn.com" class="">snoble@sonn.com</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div text="#000000" class="">Hi Adam,<br class="">
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You make my point exactly, I will follow up in-line.<br class="">
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<span class="">Adam Thompson wrote on 5/10/21 11:01 AM:</span><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:cdfe3082d7dd5a06c9f02802550fc848@athompso.net" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif" class="">
<p class="">Steven, that feels like a deliberate mis-characterization to me.</p>
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It is not, but you may not have history about how I was refused service by ARIN for multiple years.<br class="">
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<p class="">You're right, you are not guaranteed to receive service, in much the same way you are not guaranteed to receive a payout from your car insurance if you don't have an accident. Or that you aren't guaranteed to watch CBS content even though it's
included in your cable bundle: you're paying for (among other things) the right to access it on demand.</p>
<p class="">As far as I know, however, paying your fee <em class="">does</em> guarantee that ARIN services will be available to you if and/or when you need or want it.</p>
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That is incorrect, John can confirm that I was not allowed to use any services from ARIN for my ASN for a few years due to an issue with their database. I was still required to pay the fee but I was not given access to the services i.e. I couldn't even update
the mailing address, which I believe you are required to keep updated.<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:cdfe3082d7dd5a06c9f02802550fc848@athompso.net" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif" class="">
<p class="">We pay for many, many things where we do not always take full advantage of the service we're paying for, because the provider has fixed costs regardless. Your local cableco charges a fixed amount for packages, regardless of which channels in that
package you watch. When you stay in a hotel, you pay the same fee regardless of whether you spend 10 minutes in the room, or 16 hours. Both examples, like ARIN, are where there are fixed costs to providing you *any service at all*, so the consumer is expected
to defray those. (Insurance isn't so much a fixed-cost example, rather it's a "mutual" or "pool", but it works out much the same in the end.)</p>
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If my cable company did not provide service to me for a year, I would expect that I would get that money back, so to your point, I should expect ARIN to pay me back for the time that they refused to provide services? Since ARIN does not guarantee that the
objects are usable, we are not paying for that, we are paying for services.<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:cdfe3082d7dd5a06c9f02802550fc848@athompso.net" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif" class="">
<p class="">I don't see how this is substantially different from any other provider with fixed costs - we shoulder their entire cost, we don't get to pick and choose. Where we do get to, the overhead is then baked into each and every price, and each and every
one of us gets a raw deal. I shudder to think what per-second hotel billing would look like.</p>
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It isn't and hence ARIN like all of the above named entities would be required to compensate any individual/organization that was denied service.<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:cdfe3082d7dd5a06c9f02802550fc848@athompso.net" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif" class="">
<p class="">-Adam Thompson<br class="">
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:athompso@athompso.net">athompso@athompso.net</a></p>
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<p class="">On 2021-05-10 12:43, Steve Noble wrote:</p>
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<span class="">John Curran wrote on 5/10/21 9:47 AM:</span><br class="">
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Steve - </div>
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<div class="">As noted earlier, ARIN provides many operational services for all of the resources in the registry – and these services are provided even for number resources that have no requests pending or when there are requests pending to change information
but that lack proper documentation. </div>
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<div class="">The consultation that is now underway is with regard to a fee change proposal that does not change the maintenance fees for ASN's (although it will make them go away for many end-user customers with IPv4 or IPv6 holdings due to their migration
to the Registration Services Plan with ASN registry services already included :-) </div>
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Hi John,<br class="">
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Since paying the fees does not guarantee that you will receive service, it seems clear that the fees should be based on usage, not on resources. If ARIN does not provide the services, then the fee should be reduced or removed.<br class="">
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Thank you,<br class="">
Steven</div>
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Thank you,<br class="">
Steven<br class="">
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