<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><br></div>Comments inline.<div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Apr 23, 2021 at 9:04 AM John Curran <<a href="mailto:jcurran@arin.net" target="_blank">jcurran@arin.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
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On 23 Apr 2021, at 1:42 AM, Larry Blunk <<a href="mailto:ljb@merit.edu" target="_blank">ljb@merit.edu</a>> wrote:<br>
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<div>It would be incredibly helpful if we had several example cases<br>
presented. We have a number of members with legacy /16 assignments.<br>
Some have signed LRSA agreements, but a number have not. There are<br>
some who also have RSA agreements for IPv6 space from ARIN, but have<br>
not yet signed LRSA agreements for their IPv4 space. There's some<br>
confusion about what fees they would pay under the different<br>
scenarios.</div>
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<div>Larry -</div>
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<div>I am quite happy to elaborate on some of situations that would be typical of your members. In general, those with legacy IPv4 assignments who have signed LRSA’s are presently paying ARIN’s typical end-user annual maintenance fees of $150 per IP address
block per year, but have the with the benefit of a total cap on legacy resource maintenance fees of $150 per organization per year (a cap which may increase up to $25 each year, and will go up to $175 in 2021) </div>
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<div>Those who have entered into an LRSA receive all of ARIN’s registration services – including those that have been funded by the community since ARIN’s formation such as our RPKI and authenticated IRR services (Those who have not entered into an LRSA with
ARIN have been receiving basic registration services for free since ARIN’s formation.) </div>
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<div>We are transitioning to a single fee schedule for all customers, and this means that all customers will pay the same fees per ARIN’s Registration Services Plan (RSP) schedule; note that under the RSP schedule the fee category is proportional to the size
their total IPv4 address holdings. (For organizations with both IPv4 and IPv6 resources, a single fee category is utilized based on the larger of the two resource holdings - thus allowing all organizations to add proportionate amounts of IPv6 without incurring
any additional costs.) ARIN’s current Registration Services Fee schedule is here - <a href="https://www.arin.net/resources/fees/fee_schedule/" target="_blank">https://www.arin.net/resources/fees/fee_schedule/</a>, and you will note that it is very similar to the
one in the consultation; i.e. we’re not changing the RSP fee schedule but simply making it equally applicable to all customers. </div>
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<div>Organizations that have a /16 of IPv4 number resources are considered Medium size category, and pay a $4000 annual registration services fee. This replaces the $150 per object “end-user” fee schedule that many of your members with legacy resources pay
today. However, the total cap of legacy resource maintenance fees remains unchanged, so these organizations would pay $4000, but it is still capped and invoiced at $175 for 2021, $200 in 2022, etc.) </div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I just looked at the invoices for our Legacy Org ID and for 2021, 2020, and 2019 we were invoiced $125. In 2018, 2017, and 2015 we were invoiced $150, and $175 in 2016. I point this out because it doesn't quite match what you have been saying, especially for 2020 and 2021 prior to this change being implemented.</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div dir="auto">
<div>For organizations that have obtained IPv6 resources from ARIN under a separate RSA, the two most common size allocations are /32 (generally issued to ISPs) and /28 (generally issued to organizations for their own use). ARIN’s RSP fee schedule considers
organizations </div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I think you meant /48 not /28 in the above.</div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div dir="auto"><div>with /40 or smaller of IPv6 to be 3X-small (with a fee of $250 per year), and those who have /32 to be X-small (with a fee of $1,000 per year.)</div>
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<div>For any of your members that have relatively small IPv4 resource holdings (i.e. between /20 and /24) and have IPv6 space from ARIN, it indeed might make sense to consolidate to a single RSA depending of the exact amount of IPv4 and IPv6 resources held
- ARIN’s Registration Services Department will be able to review options with any of your members who are interested (+1.703.227.0660) </div>
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<div>For those legacy resources holders with /16 blocks, I suspect that maintaining the separate LRSA with ARIN for legacy resource services and the applicable legacy fee cap will make the most sense (at least for the foreseeable future.) I’ve quickly outlined
the three most common cases below for your legacy IPv6 resource holders and believe them to be correct (although it has not been proofed by second set of eyes). I’ll note that all presume that that the organizations would not consolidate to a single agreement
with ARIN for reason noted above.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>John, I understand the reasoning for the Legacy Org separation, however, explaining this to financial people and executives unfamiliar with ARIN and its history can be difficult sometimes. It would be really helpful if we could receive one unified invoice for the two related but separate Org identifiers, instead of two separate invoices at completely separate times of the year. Or, at least can we get both invoices at the same time, if they need to remain separate invoices. I invariably, get the question "didn't we pay this already this year" every time the invoice comes for the second of the two related but separate Org IDs.</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div dir="auto">
<div>Please don’t hesitate to let me know if you have any further questions on any of this and best wishes!</div>
<div>/John</div>
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<div>John Curran</div>
<div>President and CEO</div>
<div>American Registry for Internet Numbers</div>
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<div>=== ARIN registration fees for legacy /16 resource holders under LRSA today and in 2021</div>
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<div><font face="Arial Rounded MT Bold"><span style="font-style:normal">Organization #1 with legacy /16 IPv4 under LRSA and no IPv6 resources TODAY - </span></font></div>
<div><font face="Arial Rounded MT Bold"><span style="font-style:normal"><br>
</span></font></div>
<div><font face="Arial Rounded MT Bold"><span style="font-style:normal"><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"></span>LRSA <span style="white-space:pre-wrap">
</span>Legacy /16 IPv4<span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>
$150 per object <span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>Legacy Fee Cap $150<span style="white-space:pre-wrap">
</span>= $ 150</span></font></div>
<div><font face="Arial Rounded MT Bold"><span style="font-style:normal"><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"></span>-<span style="white-space:pre-wrap">
</span>-<span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>- <span style="white-space:pre-wrap">
</span>- <span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span> = - </span></font></div>
<div><font face="Arial Rounded MT Bold"><span style="font-style:normal"><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"></span> $ 150 total</span></font></div>
<div><font face="Arial Rounded MT Bold"><span style="font-style:normal"><br>
</span></font></div>
<div>
<div>
<div><font face="Arial Rounded MT Bold">Organization #1 with legacy /16 IPv4 under LRSA and no IPv6 resources in 2021 - </font></div>
<div><font face="Arial Rounded MT Bold"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial Rounded MT Bold"><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"></span>LRSA <span style="white-space:pre-wrap">
</span>Legacy /16 IPv4<span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>
$4000 (Medium RSP)<span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>Legacy Fee Cap $175<span style="white-space:pre-wrap">
</span> = $ 175</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial Rounded MT Bold"><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"></span>-<span style="white-space:pre-wrap">
</span>-<span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>- <span style="white-space:pre-wrap">
</span>- <span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span> = - </font></div>
<div><font face="Arial Rounded MT Bold"><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"></span> $ 175 total</font></div>
<div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"><font face="Arial Rounded MT Bold"><br>
</font></span></div>
</div>
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<div><span style="font-family:"Arial Rounded MT Bold"">Organization #2 with legacy /16 IPv4 under LRSA and /48 IPv6 resources TODAY - </span></div>
<div><font face="Arial Rounded MT Bold"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial Rounded MT Bold"><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"></span>LRSA <span style="white-space:pre-wrap">
</span>Legacy /16 IPv4<span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>
$150 per object <span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>Legacy Fee Cap $150<span style="white-space:pre-wrap">
</span> = $ 150</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial Rounded MT Bold"><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"></span>RSA<span style="white-space:pre-wrap">
</span>IPv6 /48<span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>$250 (3X small RSP)<span style="white-space:pre-wrap">
</span> = $ 250</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial Rounded MT Bold"><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"></span> $ 400 total</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial Rounded MT Bold"><br>
</font></div>
<div>
<div><span style="font-family:"Arial Rounded MT Bold"">Organization #2 with legacy /16 IPv4 under LRSA and /48 IPv6 resources in 2021 - </span></div>
<div><font face="Arial Rounded MT Bold"><br>
</font></div>
<div><span style="font-family:"Arial Rounded MT Bold""><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"></span>LRSA </span><span style="font-family:"Arial Rounded MT Bold";white-space:pre-wrap">
</span><span style="font-family:"Arial Rounded MT Bold"">Legacy /16 IPv4</span><span style="font-family:"Arial Rounded MT Bold";white-space:pre-wrap">
</span><span style="font-family:"Arial Rounded MT Bold"">$4000 (Medium RSP)</span><span style="font-family:"Arial Rounded MT Bold";white-space:pre-wrap">
</span><span style="font-family:"Arial Rounded MT Bold"">Legacy Fee Cap $175</span><span style="font-family:"Arial Rounded MT Bold";white-space:pre-wrap">
</span><span style="font-family:"Arial Rounded MT Bold""> = $ 175</span></div>
<div><font face="Arial Rounded MT Bold"><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"></span>RSA<span style="white-space:pre-wrap">
</span>IPv6 /48<span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>$250 (3X small RSP)<span style="white-space:pre-wrap">
</span> = $ 250</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial Rounded MT Bold"><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"></span> $ 425 total</font></div>
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<div>
<div><span style="font-family:"Arial Rounded MT Bold"">Organization #3 with legacy /16 IPv4 under LRSA and /32 IPv6 resources TODAY - </span></div>
<div><font face="Arial Rounded MT Bold"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial Rounded MT Bold"><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"></span>LRSA <span style="white-space:pre-wrap">
</span>Legacy /16 IPv4<span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>
$150 per object <span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>Legacy Fee Cap $150<span style="white-space:pre-wrap">
</span> = $ 150</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial Rounded MT Bold"><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"></span>RSA<span style="white-space:pre-wrap">
</span>IPv6 /32<span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>$1000 (X-small RSP)<span style="white-space:pre-wrap">
</span> = $1000</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial Rounded MT Bold"><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"></span> $1150 total</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial Rounded MT Bold"><br>
</font></div>
<div>
<div><span style="font-family:"Arial Rounded MT Bold"">Organization #3 with legacy /16 IPv4 under LRSA and /32 IPv6 resources in 2021 - </span></div>
<div><font face="Arial Rounded MT Bold"><br>
</font></div>
<div><span style="font-family:"Arial Rounded MT Bold""><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"></span>LRSA </span><span style="font-family:"Arial Rounded MT Bold";white-space:pre-wrap">
</span><span style="font-family:"Arial Rounded MT Bold"">Legacy /16 IPv4</span><span style="font-family:"Arial Rounded MT Bold";white-space:pre-wrap">
</span><span style="font-family:"Arial Rounded MT Bold"">$4000 (Medium RSP)</span><span style="font-family:"Arial Rounded MT Bold";white-space:pre-wrap">
</span><span style="font-family:"Arial Rounded MT Bold"">Legacy Fee Cap $175</span><span style="font-family:"Arial Rounded MT Bold";white-space:pre-wrap">
</span><span style="font-family:"Arial Rounded MT Bold""> = $ 175</span></div>
<div><font face="Arial Rounded MT Bold"><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"></span>RSA<span style="white-space:pre-wrap">
</span>IPv6 /32<span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>$1000 (X-small RSP)<span style="white-space:pre-wrap">
</span> = $1000</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial Rounded MT Bold"><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"></span> $1175 total</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial Rounded MT Bold">===</font></div>
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</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr">===============================================<br>David Farmer <a href="mailto:Email%3Afarmer@umn.edu" target="_blank">Email:farmer@umn.edu</a><br>Networking & Telecommunication Services<br>Office of Information Technology<br>University of Minnesota <br>2218 University Ave SE Phone: 612-626-0815<br>Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 612-812-9952<br>=============================================== </div></div></div>