<div dir="ltr"><b style="font-weight:normal" id="gmail-docs-internal-guid-7ac2052b-cf0e-6cc1-7413-6e33394088bb"><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-weight:400;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">Woody and Alyssa make three very good points.</span></p><br><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-weight:400;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">1. When NTIA stepped away from oversight of ICANN, we (names, numbers and protocols communities) had to figure out how the community would take over that oversight.  </span></p><br><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-weight:400;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">The numbers community sorted this issue by:</span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-weight:400;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">- the RIRs paying directly for the IANA numbers services operations</span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-weight:400;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">- having an SLA for IANA numbers services operations </span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-weight:400;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">- having an IANA Review Committee which </span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-weight:400;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">    - is made up from the community</span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-weight:400;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">    - ensure bottom up, community involvement in assessing that the IANA</span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-weight:400;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">       numbers services operations meet the needs of the numbers community. </span></p><br><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-weight:400;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">2. The ASO is an ICANN “supporting organization (SO)” and as such, it gets dragged into a lot of ICANN work as a matter of convention, like any other ICANN supporting organization (SO) or ICANN advisory committee (AC).   </span></p><br><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-weight:400;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">Most of this work has no direct relevance to global number policy, number policy in general, or the numbers community.  </span></p><br><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-weight:400;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">The amount of work has increased dramatically in the post IANA transition phase as names community tries to sort out proper community oversight (which the numbers community has already addressed -- see point 1).</span></p><br><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-weight:400;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">3. The important work of the ASO, supporting global policy and recognition of new RIRs happens sporadically and infrequently.</span></p><br><br><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-weight:400;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">While the new SLA and oversight through the community supported IANA Review Committee has greatly reduced the dependency of the numbers community on ICANN, it has not in any way changed the responsibility, role, or importance of the ASO AC.</span></p><br><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-weight:400;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">The work of shepherding global policy remains unchanged with the addition of the IANA SLA and the IANA RC.  While that work still depends on ratification of the ICANN board, then it must be completed within the ICANN system.   If global policy is no longer ratified by the ICANN board, then the work of shepherding global policy would need to be recreated outside the ICANN system. Likely this means chartering the NRO NC, building the appropriate operating procedures, and figuring out what interaction and community oversight is needed with the new ratifying party.</span></p><br><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-weight:400;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">This leaves me with two questions:</span></p><br><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-weight:400;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">1. What is the value of keeping names, numbers, and protocols under the single umbrella of ICANN?  Is the value that ICANN provides worth the level of work that an ICANN Supporting Organization or Advisory Committee requires?</span></p><br><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-weight:400;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">2. If not, then can we get ICANN to recognize the strange nature of the ASO, and ensure ICANN strives to limit ASO involvement to only things that impact global numbers policy, and the numbers community in general?  This means ICANN will necessarily need to carve out the ASO from the things that normal parts of ICANN participate in, and restrict changes to the by-laws to not impact the ASO except when they specifically relate to the numbers community and in those cases the involvement of the ASO in developing those rules is required.  </span></p><br><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-weight:400;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">If the answer to both of these are no, then we must seek to move global policy ratification, and hence the global policy shepherding work outside ICANN.  </span></p></b><br class="gmail-Apple-interchange-newline">___Jason</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Thu, Mar 1, 2018 at 5:34 PM Alyssa Moore <<a href="mailto:alyssa@alyssamoore.ca">alyssa@alyssamoore.ca</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><span id="m_3097611303996480242inbox-inbox-docs-internal-guid-44d91449-e3ad-f03b-2cd8-1d45db28420b"><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">It has taken me over two years to wrap my head around the responsibilities, structure and difference between the ASO, ASO AC, NRO, and NRO EC. </span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"><br class="m_3097611303996480242inbox-inbox-kix-line-break"></span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"><br class="m_3097611303996480242inbox-inbox-kix-line-break"></span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">I have to agree with Woody here on redundancy.</span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"><br class="m_3097611303996480242inbox-inbox-kix-line-break"></span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"><br></span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">Regarding clarity and complexity, it still remains unclear that the ASO is an ICANN Supporting Organization, whose functions are carried out by the NRO, and that the NRO NC and the ASO AC are the same people. And that the NRO EC is part of the ASO, but is separate from the ASO AC, etc. </span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"><br class="m_3097611303996480242inbox-inbox-kix-line-break"></span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">The ASO also plays an advisory role, and not a policy development role like the other two Supporting Organizations within ICANN. If it’s an advisory role, shouldn’t it be an Advisory Committee? Or why can’t that advice come from outside the ICANN structure from the NRO itself? To that end, the vast majority of RIR policy development is all done outside the constraints of the ICANN system on a regional basis.</span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"><br class="m_3097611303996480242inbox-inbox-kix-line-break"></span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"><br class="m_3097611303996480242inbox-inbox-kix-line-break"></span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">The new IANA SLA replaces the ASO MoU in terms of defining the relationship between ICANN and the RIRs, which has moved away from policy development and coordination toward an operator/clients relationship. </span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">The primary role of the ASO - forwarding global policy proposals for ratification to the ICANN Board - is an extremely rare occurrence. Does there need to be a supporting organization for that work? The NRO performs this policy coordination function already.</span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"><br class="m_3097611303996480242inbox-inbox-kix-line-break"><br class="m_3097611303996480242inbox-inbox-kix-line-break"></span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">All of that being said, despite the increased volunteer time required in the wake of the Empowered Community, I must say the ASO is probably one of the more efficient creatures of ICANN considering the sheer number of network operators it represents. </span></p></span><br class="m_3097611303996480242inbox-inbox-Apple-interchange-newline"></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Thu, Mar 1, 2018 at 9:46 AM Bill Woodcock <<a href="mailto:woody@pch.net" target="_blank">woody@pch.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><br>
<br>
> On Feb 2, 2018, at 5:59 AM, ARIN <<a href="mailto:info@arin.net" target="_blank">info@arin.net</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> As a part of the Number Resource Organization (NRO), ARIN is seeking<br>
> community input on the NRO community consultation on the ASO review.<br>
<br>
Now that there’s a contractual relationship with the IANA Functions Operator, with its own heavyweight oversight process in place, the ASO/AC is completely redundant, since it interfaces with ICANN, and unlike the Names community, we and Protocols don’t do our policymaking within ICANN, we do it ourselves.  So, no reason to continue to have an ASO/AC.  It would just be looking for a purpose and confusing people.<br>
<br>
                                -Bill<br>
<br>
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Help Desk at <a href="mailto:info@arin.net" target="_blank">info@arin.net</a> if you experience any issues.</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><font color="#555555" face="'courier new', monospace"><div><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:arial"><font color="#555555" face="'courier new', monospace">_______________________________________________________<br></font><div><font face="'courier new', monospace">Jason Schiller|NetOps|<a href="mailto:jschiller@google.com" target="_blank">jschiller@google.com</a>|571-266-0006</font></div><div><font face="'courier new', monospace"><br></font></div></span></div></font></div>