<html xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)">
<style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:#0563C1;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:#954F72;
text-decoration:underline;}
p.MsoPlainText, li.MsoPlainText, div.MsoPlainText
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Plain Text Char";
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
p.msonormal0, li.msonormal0, div.msonormal0
{mso-style-name:msonormal;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
span.PlainTextChar
{mso-style-name:"Plain Text Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Plain Text";
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
span.EmailStyle20
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:windowtext;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style>
</head>
<body lang="EN-US" link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Forwarding to the list as there was some problem last week when I sent it first, though the cc’d folks received it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Tony<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b><span style="color:black">From: </span>
</b><span style="color:black">Tony Tauber <Tony_Tauber@cable.comcast.com><br>
<b>Date: </b>Tuesday, January 16, 2018 at 11:47 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>David R Huberman <daveid@panix.com>, Jason Schiller <jschiller@google.com><br>
<b>Cc: </b>Jared Mauch <jared@puck.nether.net>, "<arin-consult@arin.net>" <arin-consult@arin.net><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [ARIN-consult] ACSP Consultation: ARIN Internet Routing Registry (IRR) Roadmap<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><a name="_MailOriginalBody">Mark, John, et. al.,<o:p></o:p></a></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">Count me in (like Job and Jay) to help.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">In my mind, and there are likely many wrinkles and cases I’m not thinking of, it goes something like this:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">At least for resources it’s assigned directly, ARIN already has the data to pro-actively publish plausible AS origin data based on OrgID.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">Their XML REST API already brings these things together.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">For instance, the
</span><a href="https://whois.arin.net/rest/org/MIT-2.html"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">OrgID record for MIT</span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"></span></a><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> shows “</span><a href="https://whois.arin.net/rest/org/MIT-2/nets"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">Related
Networks</span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"></span></a><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">” and “</span><a href="https://whois.arin.net/rest/org/MIT-2/asns"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">Related ASNs</span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"></span></a><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">”.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">How about if ARIN would publish in IRR/RPSL format route and route6 objects which link each related network with each related AS as a plausible origin?
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">It would create more records that absolutely necessary, but it seems all would be “possible” and could be done proactively so as to not require explicit action on
everyone’s part.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">ARIN online could be used to manage records beyond that.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">Personally, I don’t know that the “email method” needs to be maintained and is really archaic by most measures.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">Asking new personnel to create plain-text emails and make sure there are no invisible characters and line termination just so is really a bit much to ask these days.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">Don’t get me started on management of shared passwords that aren’t bound to any specific individual(s).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">If there’s a need for bulk/automated operation, APIs with key or other modern authentication approaches should be used.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">I don’t know enough about details of ARIN to predict how legacy assignments would be treated.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">The existing ARIN IRR data should be decommissioned at some point where data can’t be aligned with the new methods.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">I would like to see other RIRs follow suit and hammer out any necessary interworking.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">I’m not sure what the usefulness of non-RIR IRR repositories would then be (i.e., ones with weaker/no authorization models), but that’s not for ARIN to decide.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">I’m sure there may be a host of things I’m not considering but that’s my idea of how things could/would work sanely that would provide improved confidence for all.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">Tony<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">From: ARIN-consult <arin-consult-bounces@arin.net> on behalf of David R Huberman <daveid@panix.com><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">Date: Friday, January 12, 2018 at 11:52 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">To: Jason Schiller <jschiller@google.com><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">Cc: Jared Mauch <jared@puck.nether.net>, "<arin-consult@arin.net>" <arin-consult@arin.net><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">Subject: Re: [ARIN-consult] ACSP Consultation: ARIN Internet Routing Registry (IRR) Roadmap<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> > I have concerns that the text above suggests a less close coupling
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> > between WHOIS data and IRR data that I had hoped for. I think without a
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> > close coupling the work to reform the IRR becomes a lot less meaningful.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> I strongly agree.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> The first level of abstraction is the start_ip and end_ip of inetnum
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> objects. Rules I think must exist:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> - inetnum objects must exactly match a NET object in ARIN Whois<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> - inet6num objects must exactly match a NET object in ARIN Whois<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> No inetnum or inet6num object may be asserted in ARIN IRR if it does not
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> already exist in ARIN Whois. Why? Because this is how "bad actors" have
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> abused RIPEdb and other wide open IRRs to perform one critical function of
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> setting up a malevolent operation.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> RIPE's db-wg has been having this discussion, and there is very clear
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> consensus on the rules I propose above<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> The second level of abstraction is authorization. As Jason writes:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> > For ARIN direct allocations, ARIN direct assignments,and ARIN assigned
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> > ASes, the relationship is strongest. ARIN knows the OrgID, ARIN has
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> > contact info, and ARIN interacts with the Organization at least once a
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> > year for payment. These resources can be managed by any ARIN Online
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> > account linked to the Org.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> A rule that I think would make sense:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> - maintainer objects are always authorized by the ORG objects in Whois.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> This is obvious. What is less obvious is that you want to authorize
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> scripting to ADD/UPDATE/DELETE objects under your maintainer. So something
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> like:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> - While authorized contacts can add NIC handles to maintainers,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> notifications (notify:) for the maintainer object must always be sent to
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> the current ORG pocs to ensure they are aware of changes.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> Now Jason brings up data integrity<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> > 1. First, there is some overlapping data in ARIN WHOIS and ARIN IRR.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> > It should be impossible for these to be out of sync.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> Agreed.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> > - If a resource's ARIN WHOIS information is updated, if there is IRR data<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> > it must also be updated.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> Agreed. But with forewarning.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> > - If a resource is revoked / marked stale in WHOIS , the IRR (if it
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> > exists) must also be revoked / marked.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> Absolutely, and obvious to everyone I hope.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> > 2. ARIN knows who can manage the resources of a given OrgID based on
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> > linked ARIN Online accounts and API keys those accounts have created.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> > These same accounts / API Keys should be the ones that can manage IRR
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> > data either through ARIN online or a more traditional way that is tied
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> > back to the ARIN online account.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> Gotta speak up here for "more traditional". Every operator I've ever
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> been at still does this the old and reliable way: email, with cryto<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> signatures. At scale, it makes sense to have an API for all this, and
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> leverage the API KEY infrastructure already in ARIN Whois. But for
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> discrete changes (which affect the majority of IRR users), email needs to
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> remain an option, in my opinion.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> > - If a resource is transfered and that is reflected in the WHOIS,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> > ownership of the IRR data must like wise be transfered.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> Ding ding ding! Nice thinking, Jason.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> > 3. When an IRR contains a relationship between two or more resources
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> > that have different owners is authorization from both required? (i think
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> > we have to sort this out a bit. Please Help)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> No. There is no need for IRR to worry about multiple parties. Just like
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> SWIP, if authorization exists, authorization exists.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> > 3.a. Should a route holder be able to to designate an origin AS that
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> > they do not hold without the AS holder's acknowledgment? (maybe)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> The autnum and related objects need some real discussion here. Like Jason,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> I suspect the answer is maybe, but I don't know enough to know. I can
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> rope in experts into this thread if you need us to.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> > 3.b. Should an AS holder be able to designate their AS as an origin for
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> > a route they<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> > do not hold with out the route holder's acknowledgement?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> > (no. they can do all the work and just get the route holder to ack<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> > it though)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> Disagree here, because if the route object is valid, the IRR doesn't need
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> to authorize the AS relationship. But that's all part of "the autnum and
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> related objects need some real discussion here".<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> > 3.c. Should a route holder be able to remove an origin AS from their
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> > route without the AS holder's acknowledgment? (yes)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> Yes<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> ><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> > 3.d. Should a route holder be able to adjust the routing policy
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> > associated with someone else's AS, but only with respect to their route without AS<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> > holders acknowledgment ? (no)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> Didn't grok the situation you're describing.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> > 3.e. Should an AS holder be able to document a Peering relationship,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> > transit customer relationship, or transit provider relationship with another<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> > AS without that AS holder's approval? (maybe yes)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> Yes but same as above.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> David<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> _______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> ARIN-Consult<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Consult Mailing<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> List (ARIN-consult@arin.net).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-consult Please contact the ARIN Member Services<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> Help Desk at info@arin.net if you experience any issues.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>