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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">My interpretation of this is that we
clearly have a operational problem with rwhois services. Even
taking the less strict test of 39% active, this would mean that
almost the equivalent of 7 IPv4 /8s under rwhois have no
operational reassignment or reallocation records currently
available. rwhois isn't a priority for organizations because
those who use it are often not-customers, and there is no revenue
from providing this service. Is this all the protocol's fault,
no, but making the data more accessible, visible, and useful would
make keeping rwhois or rdap distributed servers up and operational
more important when people see lookup failures.<br>
<br>
There is no simple answer here, but I believe as a community we
can and should do better. <br>
<br>
Andrew<br>
<br>
<br>
On 10/13/2017 7:18 AM, John Sweeting wrote:<br>
</div>
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal">Andrew,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Here is the information for your set of
questions below:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">1) Number of orgs with an rwhois server on
any of their records<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">There are 778 orgs with resources with
rwhois servers. Of those,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">610 are unique. For clarification, rwhois
servers are attributes of Orgs in the ARIN<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">database.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">2) Number of IPv4 and IPv6 blocks with a
rwhois server on the record<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">a) For IPv6, the number is 2044<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">b) For IPv4, the number is 8563<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">3) Number of /24 IPv4 equivalents covered
by the above records<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">There are 638799 IPv3 /24 equivalents
covered by the above records.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">4) Number of /32 equivalents covered by
above records<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">There are 23385 IPv6 /32 equivalents
covered by the above networks.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">5) Total number of unique rwhois servers<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">See 1, there are 610<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">6) Percent of rwhois servers which are
online (complete a tcp connection<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">accept a string and respond with some text)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">39% of servers in 1.b<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">7) Percent of rwhois server who appear to
respond with a valid record<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">for an address within each allocated block.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">86% of servers in 6<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">ARIN-consult
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:arin-consult-bounces@arin.net"><arin-consult-bounces@arin.net></a> on behalf of Andrew
Dul <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:andrew.dul@quark.net"><andrew.dul@quark.net></a><br>
<b>Reply-To: </b><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:andrew.dul@quark.net">"andrew.dul@quark.net"</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:andrew.dul@quark.net"><andrew.dul@quark.net></a><br>
<b>Date: </b>Thursday, October 12, 2017 at 4:35 PM<br>
<b>To: </b><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:arin-consult@arin.net">"arin-consult@arin.net"</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:arin-consult@arin.net"><arin-consult@arin.net></a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [ARIN-consult] NEW Consultation:
Available Methods of Reporting Network Sub-Delegation
Information<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">I'm writing to
support the sunsetting of the rwhois protocol as a method
for ARIN members to document reallocation and reassignment
records.
<br>
<br>
That doesn't mean this year or next year, but I believe we
should set a timeline for deprecating this protocol.
Perhaps a date of 2022 would be reasonable. (Yes, some
organizations will not do the work despite the 4 years of
time to do it, but a shorter time frame would also be
unacceptable to some)<br>
<br>
I have seen those who have posted on this consultation
noting that "rwhois works and isn't broken so don't fix
it." While I will agree that it is "technically" not
broken, I believe that it is operationally broken.
<br>
<br>
These are some of the reasons why I believe we should move
on to something better. Any by better, I mean moving to
records stored in the ARIN database (SWIP) or RDAP.<br>
<br>
-Rwhois doesn't support encryption or data-integrity during
transport<br>
-There is no automatic referral, so when most people query
ARIN whois they don't know there is potentially another more
specific record and even if they are aware, how to do rwhois
is not "easy" for many users. Yes its easy for engineers
and some operators, but there are many users of "whois" data
for whom this is a barrier too high. Could we invest in
lots of training for rwhois, yes, but we will always be
behind on this as long as its not a click away for most
users.<br>
-As was noted in the most recent ARIN meeting, law
enforcement agencies use whois data as a source for their
investigations and other work, and having accurate records
available on a timely basis is very important to them. I
don't believe that rwhois data is as accessible and
available as data in the ARIN database.<br>
-RDAP was designed with referral in mind from the ground up,
so that you get all the records no matter where they are
located with a single query.
<br>
-ARIN (in possible collaboration with other RIRS) should
develop an RDAP package for those who like to host their
own, distributed database. The new package should support
bulk retrieval of records to assist in data collection and
analysis. (Also it was noted in the most recent ARIN
meeting that there are differences today in how the
different RIRs are reporting fields/data via RDAP. It would
be good for the RIRs in collaboration with each other and
other organizations that want to run RDAP servers for IP
number resources to work to create a standard met of fields
which are required for IP number resource records, along
with other optional fields for additional data)
<br>
<br>
It has been noted casually that there are many rwhois
servers which are down or aren't available. I believe this
also contributes to this data set being operationally
unavailable.
<br>
<br>
I'd like to ask if ARIN staff can confirm some of these
details with data from the ARIN's database and operational
practices. Specifically if ARIN could provide the following
details about how rwhois is being operated today I believe
it would inform the community in this consultation process.<br>
<br>
1) Number of orgs which have IPv4 or IPv6 resources and a
rwhois record on their org-id.<br>
<br>
2) Number of IPv4 and IPv6 blocks with a rwhois server under
the org-id records<br>
<br>
3) Number of /24 IPv4 equivalents covered by the above
records<br>
<br>
4) Number of /32 IPv6 equivalents covered by the above
records<br>
<br>
5) Total number of unique rwhois servers<br>
<br>
6) Percent of rwhois servers which are online (complete a
tcp connection<br>
accept a string and respond with some text)<br>
<br>
7) Percent of rwhois server who appear to respond with a
valid record<br>
for an address within each allocated block<br>
<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Andrew<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 10/2/2017 8:19 AM, ARIN wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;font-variant-caps:
normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows:
auto;-webkit-text-size-adjust:
auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span
style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif;color:black">ARIN
was previously requested via the ARIN Consultation and
Suggestion Process (ACSP) to open a consultation to
generate discussion about the possibility of sun-setting
RWhois support by the ARIN organization. ARIN's initial
response to the ACSP indicated we would open a
consultation following the completion of the Registration
Data Access Protocol (RDAP) specification inside the IETF
processes. This work has been completed and the RFC has
been published. ARIN took the additional step of
implementing RDAP inside its own directory services
offering with referral support to the other Regional
Internet Registries (RIRs). With this work complete, we
are following through with the formalized request to open
a consultation on this topic.<br>
<br>
<a
href="https://www.arin.net/participate/acsp/suggestions/2013-22.html"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.arin.net/participate/acsp/suggestions/2013-22.html</a><br>
<br>
In accordance with ARIN's Number Resource Policy Manual
(NRPM), Organizations are required to report certain types
of customer network sub-delegation information
(reassignments and reallocations) to ARIN. Currently there
are two reporting methods available. Both are delineated
in the NRPM and supported by ARIN's production services.
There is also a third possible method of reporting
sub-delegation information that could be made available,
but is not yet offered.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;font-variant-caps:
normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows:
auto;-webkit-text-size-adjust:
auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span
style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif;color:black">Method
1:<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
<br>
SWIP (currently available): The reporting of
sub-delegation information using ARIN's database. This can
be done either by submitting a SWIP template, interfacing
with ARIN's RESTful API, or by creating a sub-delegation
inside ARIN Online using ARIN's SWIP-EZ functionality.<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
<br>
<a
href="https://www.arin.net/resources/request/reassignments.html"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.arin.net/resources/request/reassignments.html</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;font-variant-caps:
normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows:
auto;-webkit-text-size-adjust:
auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span
style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif;color:black">Method
2:<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
<br>
RWhois (currently available): The reporting of
sub-delegation information on your own hosted and operated
RWhois server with referral link information provided in
ARIN Whois as part of your own organization's Whois
records. In order for a user of ARIN's directory services
to view sub-delegation information hosted by an RWhois
server, they would have to submit a separate query to that
RWhois server, and are not referred in an automated
fashion.<br>
<br>
<a
href="https://www.arin.net/resources/request/reassignments_rwhois.html"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.arin.net/resources/request/reassignments_rwhois.html</a> <span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;font-variant-caps:
normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows:
auto;-webkit-text-size-adjust:
auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span
style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif;color:black">Method
3:<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
<br>
RDAP: The five RIRs currently use RDAP for referrals to
each other's Whois data. Although the specification
language of the RDAP could allow it to be used as a third
method for the reporting of sub-delegation information to
ARIN, it is not currently offered as an option. In order
to make this option available, associated registry
software would need to be created. This possible method
would allow users of ARIN's directory services to view
sub-delegation information available on customer hosted
RDAP servers in an automated fashion. This RDAP method may
also be viewed as redundant to RWhois.<br>
<br>
<a href="https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7482"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7482</a><br>
<a href="https://www.arin.net/resources/rdap.html"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.arin.net/resources/rdap.html</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;font-variant-caps:
normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows:
auto;-webkit-text-size-adjust:
auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span
style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif;color:black">Options
Going Forward<br>
<br>
ARIN expects to continue offering Method 1 (SWIP) into the
foreseeable future. As previously described, we are acting
on a formal suggestion to consult with the community about
the future of RWhois support, and also have potential
options with RDAP.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo1;background:white">
<!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:black"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif;color:black">Question
(general):<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;font-variant-caps:
normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows:
auto;-webkit-text-size-adjust:
auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span
style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif;color:black"><br>
Of the three sub-delegation reporting methods
listed (SWIP, RWhois, RDAP), which should ARIN support in
the future?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l3
level1 lfo2;background:white">
<!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:black"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif;color:black">Question
(SWIP/RESTful API specific):<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;font-variant-caps:
normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows:
auto;-webkit-text-size-adjust:
auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span
style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif;color:black"><br>
The existing RESTful API allows users to report
(SWIP) one sub-delegation at a time to be added to ARIN
Whois. Should ARIN add bulk-upload features to the
RESTful API?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l2
level1 lfo3;background:white">
<!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:black"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif;color:black">Question
(RWhois specific):<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;font-variant-caps:
normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows:
auto;-webkit-text-size-adjust:
auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span
style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif;color:black"><br>
As noted, RWhois servers are not referred to in
an automated fashion when users query ARIN Whois. Should
ARIN automate referrals to RWhois servers from ARIN's
Whois service?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1
level1 lfo4;background:white">
<!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:black"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif;color:black">Question
(RDAP specific):<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;font-variant-caps:
normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows:
auto;-webkit-text-size-adjust:
auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span
style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif;color:black"><br>
If ARIN was to allow the reporting of network
sub-delegation information using RDAP, associated enabling
software would be required. Should ARIN enable this method
by creating an RDAP software suite that would allow ARIN
registrants to run RDAP service locally?<br>
<br>
The feedback you provide during this consultation will
help inform decisions about software tools and support for
the reporting of network sub-delegation information to
ARIN in the future. Thank you for your participation in
the ARIN Consultation and Suggestion Process.<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
<br>
Discussion on<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a
href="mailto:arin-consult@arin.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">arin-consult@arin.net</a><span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span>will close on 27
October 2017. If you have any questions, please contact us
at<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a
href="mailto:info@arin.net" moz-do-not-send="true">info@arin.net</a>.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;font-variant-caps:
normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows:
auto;-webkit-text-size-adjust:
auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span
style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;font-variant-caps:
normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows:
auto;-webkit-text-size-adjust:
auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span
style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif;color:black">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;font-variant-caps:
normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows:
auto;-webkit-text-size-adjust:
auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span
style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;font-variant-caps:
normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows:
auto;-webkit-text-size-adjust:
auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span
style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif;color:black">John
Curran<br>
President and CEO<br>
American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;font-variant-caps:
normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows:
auto;-webkit-text-size-adjust:
auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span
style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;font-variant-caps:
normal;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows:
auto;-webkit-text-size-adjust:
auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span
style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">ARIN-Consult<o:p></o:p></pre>
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</blockquote>
<p style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
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