[ARIN-consult] Consultation on Requiring Two-Factor Authentication (2FA) for ARIN Online Accounts

[Ross Tajvar]

>
> The hardware token is even less likely to be at hand in situations where
> the cell isn’t handy, so that’s a laughable answer.
>
Laugh all you want but this could reasonably happen to me. I keep one
hardware token on my keyring, and I always keep my keys in my pocket while
I'm not at home, but sometimes I walk away from my cell phone. Your
experiences are not universal.


> The password manager only works if the particular TOTP mechanisms
> supported by the particular implementor are also supported by your
> particular preferred password manager.

For standard code generation, all you need is the secret. I've never so
much as changed an algorithm and it's worked flawlessly the first time
every time. Yeah maybe there are some edge cases, but for the vast majority
of cases it Just Works.

On Thu, May 26, 2022 at 12:44 AM Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> wrote:

>
>
> On May 25, 2022, at 20:39, Ross Tajvar <ross at tajvar.io> wrote:
>
> The added overhead is small if you are in an office with your cell phone
>> handy.
>>
>> It’s less convenient if your cell phone isn’t handy (for a variety of
>> reasons), and you’re trying to do something quickly without having to
>> retrieve said phone.
>>
>
> I don't need my cell phone to do 2FA. I normally don't - I just use my
> password manager, or a hardware token depending on what I'm authenticating
> to. I *can* use my cell phone, but I don't have to.
>
>
> Obviously this depends on the 2FA mechanism and other factors.
>
> The hardware token is even less likely to be at hand in situations where
> the cell isn’t handy, so that’s a laughable answer.
>
> The password manager only works if the particular TOTP mechanisms
> supported by the particular implementor are also supported by your
> particular preferred password manager.
>
> I’m not aware of a 2FA integration mechanism for iCloud Keychain, for
> example. Happy to be proven wrong.
>
> Owen
>
>
> On Wed, May 25, 2022 at 11:00 PM Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On May 25, 2022, at 08:41, Ross Tajvar <ross at tajvar.io> wrote:
>>
>> I remain unconvinced that inflicting 2FA on me solves a real problem that
>>> actually exists.
>>
>> I'm not sure why you (and others) seem to think 2FA is so incredibly
>> inconvenient. In my experience, it only takes a few extra seconds, or a few
>> extra clicks/taps depending on how it's set up. The added overhead really
>> is very small.
>>
>>
>> The added overhead is small if you are in an office with your cell phone
>> handy.
>>
>> It’s less convenient if your cell phone isn’t handy (for a variety of
>> reasons), and you’re trying to do something quickly without having to
>> retrieve said phone.
>>
>>
>> Perhaps requiring better (non-dictionary) passwords on accounts that
>>> don’t have 2FA would be a solution more targeted at the actual problem.
>>
>>  How would ARIN judge the complexity of a password? As far as I'm aware,
>> checking if it uses dictionary words is non-trivial. And even then, a
>> sufficiently long passphrase using dictionary words is pretty secure (vs a
>> short one) - I don't think it makes sense to penalize users for that.
>>
>>
>> Yes, sufficient length if just words (alpha only), or sufficient entropy
>> if not long.
>>
>> Checking for dictionary words isn’t completely trivial, but it’s not
>> particularly computationally difficult, either.
>>
>> Plenty of sites manage to do this.
>>
>> Owen
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, May 25, 2022 at 11:35 AM Owen DeLong via ARIN-consult <
>> arin-consult at arin.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On May 25, 2022, at 08:13 , Matt Harris <matt at netfire.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> <image541905.png>
>>> Matt Harris​
>>> | VP of Infrastructure
>>> 816‑256‑5446
>>> | Direct
>>> Looking for help?
>>> *Helpdesk* <https://help.netfire.net/>
>>> | *Email Support* <help at netfire.net>
>>>
>>> We build customized end‑to‑end technology solutions powered by NetFire Cloud.
>>> On Wed, May 25, 2022 at 2:13 AM Owen DeLong via ARIN-consult <
>>> arin-consult at arin.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I’m not in favor of requiring 2FA. I agree that SMS 2FA is pretty
>>>> awful, but all forms of 2FA come with a variety of inconveniences.
>>>>
>>>> With an account that goes back to the beginnings of ARIN online, I’ve
>>>> never had a security problem with my ARIN online account, so I think that
>>>> 2FA is a solution looking for a problem here.
>>>>
>>>> I know that’s not a popular view among the more security conscious, but
>>>> the reality is that security should be commensurate with what is being
>>>> protected. Let users who think their account warrants such additional
>>>> measures opt in. Let those of use who feel that our passwords are adequate
>>>> continue in that manner.
>>>>
>>>> Owen
>>>>
>>>
>>> Owen,
>>> The problem is that compromised ARIN accounts can result in issues that
>>> don't just impact the owner of the account that held those resources.
>>> Compromised ARIN accounts with resources can potentially adversely impact
>>> us all in terms of upticks in spam and the resulting management burdens, at
>>> the very least, and potentially in other (perhaps even thus far unforeseen)
>>> ways as well.
>>>
>>>
>>> I disagree… If my ARIN account is compromised, I’m going to get notified
>>> of any changes made. (So far, that hasn’t happened). I know exactly where
>>> to go to get those changes reverted quickly.
>>>
>>> My account is associated with resources, but I remain unconvinced that
>>> inflicting 2FA on me solves a real problem that actually exists.
>>>
>>> I do agree with your statement "security should be commensurate with
>>> what is being protected." Thus, I would consider that we perhaps continue
>>> to allow accounts without control of any resources to continue without
>>> requiring 2fa, only requiring it when resources are allocated. An ARIN
>>> account with control of nothing, or perhaps just contact records for SWIP'd
>>> space, etc, is not one that is a huge hazard to the community at large imho
>>> compared to one that controls ASNs or IPv4 and IPv6 resources.
>>>
>>>
>>> Perhaps requiring better (non-dictionary) passwords on accounts that
>>> don’t have 2FA would be a solution more targeted at the actual problem.
>>>
>>> Owen
>>>
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>>
>>
>
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