[ARIN-consult] What do the ASN fees go to?
Owen DeLong
owen at delong.com
Tue May 18 18:10:41 EDT 2021
Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought under RSP, ASNs had an origination fee, but were subsequently included in RSP subscription at no annual recurring charge.
This is a distinction and a change for resource holders not currently under an RSP because they currently do pay a $150/year ASN maintenance fee for each ASN.
Owen
> On May 10, 2021, at 12:37, John Curran <jcurran at arin.net> wrote:
>
> Correct - ASN maintenance fees are not affected by the proposed fee change and not the subject of this consultation.
>
> Thanks,
> /John
>
> John Curran
> President and CEO
> American Registry for Internet Numbers
>
>> On 10 May 2021, at 3:17 PM, Citizen Support ARIN Support <ARIN at citizen.bz> wrote:
>>
>> ARIN is a registrar that handles ASN and IP addresses. If ARIN
>> issued you one of these or both of these things they did give service.
>> Change of contact info while required and should be up to date is
>> not a denial of service to you. This looks like a person who has
>> become disgruntled and trying to take this topic off topic from the
>> task at hand.
>>
>> This thread is to talk about the possible future changes to fees which
>> in general lower smaller users fee structure. Yes there is a few
>> caveats on this but it has nothing to do with the current question of
>> how fees are handled.
>>
>>
>> This is an example that I have made for this example based on the fees
>> of AS Number only.
>> 150/yr
>>
>> 1u Server hosting in data centers with 1 internet connection using
>> Centos 7 and ARINs BGP settings
>> 200/month for a 100/mb circuit and 1 U
>> 50-200/hr Labor (Can be anything from them helping you to a restart of
>> the server due to iLO failure)
>>
>> now they have to have this in a High Availability Setup in 2+ data centers
>>
>> and you are complaining for a $12.50 a month fee? If you have a
>> problem with your account or your contact info contact ARIN in their
>> support paths please do not troll here.
>>
>> Use of this database, support, and anything else ARIN offers or not
>> does not mean you do or do not have to pay them the ASN and IP blocks
>> are Leased to you can you lease these forever yes but they are lessed
>> not owned.
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>> From: <arin-consult-request at arin.net>
>> Date: Mon, May 10, 2021 at 2:38 PM
>> Subject: ARIN-consult Digest, Vol 81, Issue 6
>> To: <arin-consult at arin.net>
>>
>>
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>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Re: What do the ASN fees go to? (Steve Noble)
>> 2. Re: What do the ASN fees go to? (Adam Thompson)
>> 3. Re: What do the ASN fees go to? (Steve Noble)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Mon, 10 May 2021 10:43:05 -0700
>> From: Steve Noble <snoble at sonn.com>
>> To: John Curran <jcurran at arin.net>
>> Cc: "<arin-consult at arin.net>" <arin-consult at arin.net>
>> Subject: Re: [ARIN-consult] What do the ASN fees go to?
>> Message-ID: <aedc1296-95b7-4ef9-1492-ef2e3a3cd2a8 at sonn.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>>
>>
>>
>> John Curran wrote on 5/10/21 9:47 AM:
>>>
>>> Steve -
>>>
>>> As noted earlier, ARIN provides many operational services for all
>>> of the resources in the registry ? and these services are provided
>>> even for number resources that have no requests pending or when
>>> there are requests pending to change information but that lack
>>> proper documentation.
>>>
>>> The consultation that is now underway is with regard to a fee
>>> change proposal that does not change the maintenance fees for
>>> ASN?s (although it will make them go away for many end-user
>>> customers with IPv4 or IPv6 holdings due to their migration to the
>>> Registration Services Plan with ASN registry services already
>>> included :-)
>>>
>>
>> Hi John,
>>
>> Since paying the fees does not guarantee that you will receive service,
>> it seems clear that the fees should be based on usage, not on
>> resources.? If ARIN does not provide the services, then the fee should
>> be reduced or removed.
>>
>> --
>> Thank you,
>> Steven
>> -------------- next part --------------
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>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Mon, 10 May 2021 13:01:56 -0500
>> From: Adam Thompson <athompso at athompso.net>
>> To: Steve Noble <snoble at sonn.com>
>> Cc: John Curran <jcurran at arin.net>, <arin-consult at arin.net>
>> Subject: Re: [ARIN-consult] What do the ASN fees go to?
>> Message-ID: <cdfe3082d7dd5a06c9f02802550fc848 at athompso.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> Steven, that feels like a deliberate mis-characterization to me.
>>
>> You're right, you are not guaranteed to receive service, in much the
>> same way you are not guaranteed to receive a payout from your car
>> insurance if you don't have an accident. Or that you aren't guaranteed
>> to watch CBS content even though it's included in your cable bundle:
>> you're paying for (among other things) the right to access it on demand.
>>
>>
>> As far as I know, however, paying your fee _does_ guarantee that ARIN
>> services will be available to you if and/or when you need or want it.
>>
>> We pay for many, many things where we do not always take full advantage
>> of the service we're paying for, because the provider has fixed costs
>> regardless. Your local cableco charges a fixed amount for packages,
>> regardless of which channels in that package you watch. When you stay
>> in a hotel, you pay the same fee regardless of whether you spend 10
>> minutes in the room, or 16 hours. Both examples, like ARIN, are where
>> there are fixed costs to providing you *any service at all*, so the
>> consumer is expected to defray those. (Insurance isn't so much a
>> fixed-cost example, rather it's a "mutual" or "pool", but it works out
>> much the same in the end.)
>>
>> I don't see how this is substantially different from any other provider
>> with fixed costs - we shoulder their entire cost, we don't get to pick
>> and choose. Where we do get to, the overhead is then baked into each
>> and every price, and each and every one of us gets a raw deal. I
>> shudder to think what per-second hotel billing would look like.
>>
>> -Adam Thompson
>> athompso at athompso.net
>>
>> On 2021-05-10 12:43, Steve Noble wrote:
>>
>>> John Curran wrote on 5/10/21 9:47 AM:
>>>
>>> Steve -
>>>
>>> As noted earlier, ARIN provides many operational services for all of the resources in the registry - and these services are provided even for number resources that have no requests pending or when there are requests pending to change information but that lack proper documentation.
>>>
>>> The consultation that is now underway is with regard to a fee change proposal that does not change the maintenance fees for ASN's (although it will make them go away for many end-user customers with IPv4 or IPv6 holdings due to their migration to the Registration Services Plan with ASN registry services already included :-)
>>
>> Hi John,
>>
>> Since paying the fees does not guarantee that you will receive service,
>> it seems clear that the fees should be based on usage, not on resources.
>> If ARIN does not provide the services, then the fee should be reduced
>> or removed.
>>
>> --
>> Thank you,
>> Steven
>> _______________________________________________
>> ARIN-Consult
>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN
>> Consult Mailing
>> List (ARIN-consult at arin.net).
>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
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>> ARIN Member Services
>> Help Desk at info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
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>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Mon, 10 May 2021 11:38:46 -0700
>> From: Steve Noble <snoble at sonn.com>
>> To: Adam Thompson <athompso at athompso.net>
>> Cc: John Curran <jcurran at arin.net>, arin-consult at arin.net
>> Subject: Re: [ARIN-consult] What do the ASN fees go to?
>> Message-ID: <a4853b03-4939-22ab-75c1-0de57b6b7c4d at sonn.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>>
>> Hi Adam,
>>
>> You make my point exactly, I will follow up in-line.
>>
>> Adam Thompson wrote on 5/10/21 11:01 AM:
>>>
>>> Steven, that feels like a deliberate mis-characterization to me.
>>>
>> It is not, but you may not have history about how I was refused service
>> by ARIN for multiple years.
>>>
>>> You're right, you are not guaranteed to receive service, in much the
>>> same way you are not guaranteed to receive a payout from your car
>>> insurance if you don't have an accident.? Or that you aren't
>>> guaranteed to watch CBS content even though it's included in your
>>> cable bundle: you're paying for (among other things) the right to
>>> access it on demand.
>>>
>>> As far as I know, however, paying your fee /does/?guarantee?that ARIN
>>> services will be available to you if and/or when you need or want it.
>>>
>> That is incorrect, John can confirm that I was not allowed to use any
>> services from ARIN for my ASN for a few years due to an issue with their
>> database.? I was still required to pay the fee but I was not given
>> access to the services i.e. I couldn't even update the mailing address,
>> which I believe you are required to keep updated.
>>>
>>> We pay for many, many things where we do not always take full
>>> advantage of the service we're paying for, because the provider has
>>> fixed costs regardless.? Your local cableco charges a fixed amount for
>>> packages, regardless of which channels in that package you watch.?
>>> When you stay in a hotel, you pay the same fee regardless of whether
>>> you spend 10 minutes in the room, or 16?hours.? Both examples, like
>>> ARIN, are where there are fixed costs to providing you *any service at
>>> all*, so the consumer is expected to defray those.? (Insurance isn't
>>> so much a fixed-cost example, rather it's a "mutual" or "pool", but it
>>> works out much the same in the end.)
>>>
>> If my cable company did not provide service to me for a year, I would
>> expect that I would get that money back, so to your point, I should
>> expect ARIN to pay me back for the time that they refused to provide
>> services?? Since ARIN does not guarantee that the objects are usable, we
>> are not paying for that, we are paying for services.
>>>
>>> I don't see how this is substantially different from any other
>>> provider with fixed costs - we shoulder their entire cost, we don't
>>> get to pick and choose.? Where we do get to, the overhead is then
>>> baked into each and every price, and each and every one of us gets a
>>> raw deal.? I shudder to think what per-second hotel billing would look
>>> like.
>>>
>> It isn't and hence ARIN like all of the above named entities would be
>> required to compensate any individual/organization that was denied service.
>>>
>>> -Adam Thompson
>>> ?athompso at athompso.net
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 2021-05-10 12:43, Steve Noble wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> John Curran wrote on 5/10/21 9:47 AM:
>>>>
>>>> Steve -
>>>>
>>>> As noted earlier, ARIN provides many operational services for
>>>> all of the resources in the registry ? and these services are
>>>> provided even for number resources that have no requests
>>>> pending or when there are requests pending to change
>>>> information but that lack proper documentation.
>>>> The consultation that is now underway is with regard to a fee
>>>> change proposal that does not change the maintenance fees for
>>>> ASN's (although it will make them go away for many end-user
>>>> customers with IPv4 or IPv6 holdings due to their migration
>>>> to the Registration Services Plan with ASN registry services
>>>> already included :-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi John,
>>>>
>>>> Since paying the fees does not guarantee that you will receive
>>>> service, it seems clear that the fees should be based on usage, not
>>>> on resources.? If ARIN does not provide the services, then the fee
>>>> should be reduced or removed.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Thank you,
>>>> Steven
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> ARIN-Consult
>>>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN
>>>> Consult Mailing
>>>> List (ARIN-consult at arin.net <mailto:ARIN-consult at arin.net>).
>>>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
>>>> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-consult Please contact
>>>> the ARIN Member Services
>>>> Help Desk at info at arin.net <mailto:info at arin.net> if you experience
>>>> any issues.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Thank you,
>> Steven
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