[ARIN-consult] What do the ASN fees go to?
Citizen Support ARIN Support
ARIN at citizen.bz
Mon May 10 15:17:24 EDT 2021
ARIN is a registrar that handles ASN and IP addresses. If ARIN
issued you one of these or both of these things they did give service.
Change of contact info while required and should be up to date is
not a denial of service to you. This looks like a person who has
become disgruntled and trying to take this topic off topic from the
task at hand.
This thread is to talk about the possible future changes to fees which
in general lower smaller users fee structure. Yes there is a few
caveats on this but it has nothing to do with the current question of
how fees are handled.
This is an example that I have made for this example based on the fees
of AS Number only.
150/yr
1u Server hosting in data centers with 1 internet connection using
Centos 7 and ARINs BGP settings
200/month for a 100/mb circuit and 1 U
50-200/hr Labor (Can be anything from them helping you to a restart of
the server due to iLO failure)
now they have to have this in a High Availability Setup in 2+ data centers
and you are complaining for a $12.50 a month fee? If you have a
problem with your account or your contact info contact ARIN in their
support paths please do not troll here.
Use of this database, support, and anything else ARIN offers or not
does not mean you do or do not have to pay them the ASN and IP blocks
are Leased to you can you lease these forever yes but they are lessed
not owned.
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: What do the ASN fees go to? (Steve Noble)
2. Re: What do the ASN fees go to? (Adam Thompson)
3. Re: What do the ASN fees go to? (Steve Noble)
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Message: 1
Date: Mon, 10 May 2021 10:43:05 -0700
From: Steve Noble <snoble at sonn.com>
To: John Curran <jcurran at arin.net>
Cc: "<arin-consult at arin.net>" <arin-consult at arin.net>
Subject: Re: [ARIN-consult] What do the ASN fees go to?
Message-ID: <aedc1296-95b7-4ef9-1492-ef2e3a3cd2a8 at sonn.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
John Curran wrote on 5/10/21 9:47 AM:
>
> Steve -
>
> As noted earlier, ARIN provides many operational services for all
> of the resources in the registry ? and these services are provided
> even for number resources that have no requests pending or when
> there are requests pending to change information but that lack
> proper documentation.
>
> The consultation that is now underway is with regard to a fee
> change proposal that does not change the maintenance fees for
> ASN?s (although it will make them go away for many end-user
> customers with IPv4 or IPv6 holdings due to their migration to the
> Registration Services Plan with ASN registry services already
> included :-)
>
Hi John,
Since paying the fees does not guarantee that you will receive service,
it seems clear that the fees should be based on usage, not on
resources.? If ARIN does not provide the services, then the fee should
be reduced or removed.
--
Thank you,
Steven
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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 10 May 2021 13:01:56 -0500
From: Adam Thompson <athompso at athompso.net>
To: Steve Noble <snoble at sonn.com>
Cc: John Curran <jcurran at arin.net>, <arin-consult at arin.net>
Subject: Re: [ARIN-consult] What do the ASN fees go to?
Message-ID: <cdfe3082d7dd5a06c9f02802550fc848 at athompso.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Steven, that feels like a deliberate mis-characterization to me.
You're right, you are not guaranteed to receive service, in much the
same way you are not guaranteed to receive a payout from your car
insurance if you don't have an accident. Or that you aren't guaranteed
to watch CBS content even though it's included in your cable bundle:
you're paying for (among other things) the right to access it on demand.
As far as I know, however, paying your fee _does_ guarantee that ARIN
services will be available to you if and/or when you need or want it.
We pay for many, many things where we do not always take full advantage
of the service we're paying for, because the provider has fixed costs
regardless. Your local cableco charges a fixed amount for packages,
regardless of which channels in that package you watch. When you stay
in a hotel, you pay the same fee regardless of whether you spend 10
minutes in the room, or 16 hours. Both examples, like ARIN, are where
there are fixed costs to providing you *any service at all*, so the
consumer is expected to defray those. (Insurance isn't so much a
fixed-cost example, rather it's a "mutual" or "pool", but it works out
much the same in the end.)
I don't see how this is substantially different from any other provider
with fixed costs - we shoulder their entire cost, we don't get to pick
and choose. Where we do get to, the overhead is then baked into each
and every price, and each and every one of us gets a raw deal. I
shudder to think what per-second hotel billing would look like.
-Adam Thompson
athompso at athompso.net
On 2021-05-10 12:43, Steve Noble wrote:
> John Curran wrote on 5/10/21 9:47 AM:
>
> Steve -
>
> As noted earlier, ARIN provides many operational services for all of the resources in the registry - and these services are provided even for number resources that have no requests pending or when there are requests pending to change information but that lack proper documentation.
>
> The consultation that is now underway is with regard to a fee change proposal that does not change the maintenance fees for ASN's (although it will make them go away for many end-user customers with IPv4 or IPv6 holdings due to their migration to the Registration Services Plan with ASN registry services already included :-)
Hi John,
Since paying the fees does not guarantee that you will receive service,
it seems clear that the fees should be based on usage, not on resources.
If ARIN does not provide the services, then the fee should be reduced
or removed.
--
Thank you,
Steven
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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 10 May 2021 11:38:46 -0700
From: Steve Noble <snoble at sonn.com>
To: Adam Thompson <athompso at athompso.net>
Cc: John Curran <jcurran at arin.net>, arin-consult at arin.net
Subject: Re: [ARIN-consult] What do the ASN fees go to?
Message-ID: <a4853b03-4939-22ab-75c1-0de57b6b7c4d at sonn.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
Hi Adam,
You make my point exactly, I will follow up in-line.
Adam Thompson wrote on 5/10/21 11:01 AM:
>
> Steven, that feels like a deliberate mis-characterization to me.
>
It is not, but you may not have history about how I was refused service
by ARIN for multiple years.
>
> You're right, you are not guaranteed to receive service, in much the
> same way you are not guaranteed to receive a payout from your car
> insurance if you don't have an accident.? Or that you aren't
> guaranteed to watch CBS content even though it's included in your
> cable bundle: you're paying for (among other things) the right to
> access it on demand.
>
> As far as I know, however, paying your fee /does/?guarantee?that ARIN
> services will be available to you if and/or when you need or want it.
>
That is incorrect, John can confirm that I was not allowed to use any
services from ARIN for my ASN for a few years due to an issue with their
database.? I was still required to pay the fee but I was not given
access to the services i.e. I couldn't even update the mailing address,
which I believe you are required to keep updated.
>
> We pay for many, many things where we do not always take full
> advantage of the service we're paying for, because the provider has
> fixed costs regardless.? Your local cableco charges a fixed amount for
> packages, regardless of which channels in that package you watch.?
> When you stay in a hotel, you pay the same fee regardless of whether
> you spend 10 minutes in the room, or 16?hours.? Both examples, like
> ARIN, are where there are fixed costs to providing you *any service at
> all*, so the consumer is expected to defray those.? (Insurance isn't
> so much a fixed-cost example, rather it's a "mutual" or "pool", but it
> works out much the same in the end.)
>
If my cable company did not provide service to me for a year, I would
expect that I would get that money back, so to your point, I should
expect ARIN to pay me back for the time that they refused to provide
services?? Since ARIN does not guarantee that the objects are usable, we
are not paying for that, we are paying for services.
>
> I don't see how this is substantially different from any other
> provider with fixed costs - we shoulder their entire cost, we don't
> get to pick and choose.? Where we do get to, the overhead is then
> baked into each and every price, and each and every one of us gets a
> raw deal.? I shudder to think what per-second hotel billing would look
> like.
>
It isn't and hence ARIN like all of the above named entities would be
required to compensate any individual/organization that was denied service.
>
> -Adam Thompson
> ?athompso at athompso.net
>
>
> On 2021-05-10 12:43, Steve Noble wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> John Curran wrote on 5/10/21 9:47 AM:
>>
>> Steve -
>>
>> As noted earlier, ARIN provides many operational services for
>> all of the resources in the registry ? and these services are
>> provided even for number resources that have no requests
>> pending or when there are requests pending to change
>> information but that lack proper documentation.
>> The consultation that is now underway is with regard to a fee
>> change proposal that does not change the maintenance fees for
>> ASN's (although it will make them go away for many end-user
>> customers with IPv4 or IPv6 holdings due to their migration
>> to the Registration Services Plan with ASN registry services
>> already included :-)
>>
>>
>> Hi John,
>>
>> Since paying the fees does not guarantee that you will receive
>> service, it seems clear that the fees should be based on usage, not
>> on resources.? If ARIN does not provide the services, then the fee
>> should be reduced or removed.
>>
>> --
>> Thank you,
>> Steven
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ARIN-Consult
>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN
>> Consult Mailing
>> List (ARIN-consult at arin.net <mailto:ARIN-consult at arin.net>).
>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
>> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-consult Please contact
>> the ARIN Member Services
>> Help Desk at info at arin.net <mailto:info at arin.net> if you experience
>> any issues.
>
>
--
Thank you,
Steven
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