From farmer at umn.edu Mon Jul 6 18:55:53 2015 From: farmer at umn.edu (David Farmer) Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2015 17:55:53 -0500 Subject: [ARIN-consult] [ARIN-Suggestions] Response to Suggestion 2015.9: CONVERT IPV4 COUNTDOWN TO SCIENTIFIC NOTATION In-Reply-To: <559AF851.90002@arin.net> References: <559AF851.90002@arin.net> Message-ID: <559B0779.2050401@umn.edu> On 7/6/15 16:51 , ARIN wrote: > ARIN has issued its response to ACSP Suggestion 2015.9. The suggestion > and response text are provided below. This suggestion is now closed and > is available at: > > https://www.arin.net/participate/acsp/suggestions/2015-9.html > > Regards, > > Communications and Member Services > American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN) > > **** > Suggestion: * > > Value to Community: As the available IPv4 free pool becomes > progressively more infinitesimal, the legibility of the tiny fraction of > a /8 remaining will be much better in scientific notation. For example, > today we are at 0.00847. 8.47E-3 is a bit easier to read. As the decimal > moves farther to the left, the effect will be more pronounced. > This is semi-tongue in cheek, but I couldn't resist. The reality is I > don't expect the counter to be relevant long enough for this suggestion > to get implemented. It's time to recognize that IPv4 is over and turn > our focus to IPv6 deployment. > > *Response:* > > Thank you for your suggestion (2015-9) on the topic of changing how ARIN > displays the last remaining IPv4 free pool inventory. Although this type > of notation could be helpful to some, we have received only one > suggestion (from you) to make this change. We agree with your statement > that indicates the IPv4 free pool may deplete sooner than we could > prioritize this suggestion for implementation. For that reason, we are > closing this suggestion without taking further action. > Thank you for using the ARIN Consultation and Suggestion Process. While I agree with the response given to the specific suggestion of using scientific notation, it may be useful to consider part of the value statement more as problem statement. As the available IPv4 free pool becomes progressively more infinitesimal, representing the available free pool as /8 equivalents will become more and more problematic. The primary point being that an accurate representation of the free pool inventory will be useful even if it is in fact zero, however usefulness of the current representation, based on a /8, is degrading and almost useless at this point. Given that the free pool is currently slightly more than 500 /24s, and not likely to exceed more than a couple thousand /24s for the foreseeable future, I would recommend changing the representation from /8 to /24 equivalents. This would probably be forever, but if somehow the inventory made it above say 20 or 30 thousand /24s then maybe the representation could be increased to /16 equivalents or beyond as appropriate. If necessary I can submit this as a new suggestions. Thanks -- ================================================ David Farmer Email: farmer at umn.edu Office of Information Technology University of Minnesota 2218 University Ave SE Phone: 1-612-626-0815 Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 1-612-812-9952 ================================================ From dogwallah at gmail.com Mon Jul 6 19:42:06 2015 From: dogwallah at gmail.com (McTim) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2015 19:42:06 -0400 Subject: [ARIN-consult] [ARIN-Suggestions] Response to Suggestion 2015.9: CONVERT IPV4 COUNTDOWN TO SCIENTIFIC NOTATION In-Reply-To: <559B0779.2050401@umn.edu> References: <559AF851.90002@arin.net> <559B0779.2050401@umn.edu> Message-ID: Apologies for top-posting, but isn't the listing of /23s and /24s at https://www.arin.net/resources/request/ipv4_countdown.html a good enough counter? rgds, McTim On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 6:55 PM, David Farmer wrote: > On 7/6/15 16:51 , ARIN wrote: > >> ARIN has issued its response to ACSP Suggestion 2015.9. The suggestion >> and response text are provided below. This suggestion is now closed and >> is available at: >> >> https://www.arin.net/participate/acsp/suggestions/2015-9.html >> >> Regards, >> >> Communications and Member Services >> American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN) >> >> **** >> Suggestion: * >> >> Value to Community: As the available IPv4 free pool becomes >> progressively more infinitesimal, the legibility of the tiny fraction of >> a /8 remaining will be much better in scientific notation. For example, >> today we are at 0.00847. 8.47E-3 is a bit easier to read. As the decimal >> moves farther to the left, the effect will be more pronounced. >> This is semi-tongue in cheek, but I couldn't resist. The reality is I >> don't expect the counter to be relevant long enough for this suggestion >> to get implemented. It's time to recognize that IPv4 is over and turn >> our focus to IPv6 deployment. >> >> *Response:* >> >> Thank you for your suggestion (2015-9) on the topic of changing how ARIN >> displays the last remaining IPv4 free pool inventory. Although this type >> of notation could be helpful to some, we have received only one >> suggestion (from you) to make this change. We agree with your statement >> that indicates the IPv4 free pool may deplete sooner than we could >> prioritize this suggestion for implementation. For that reason, we are >> closing this suggestion without taking further action. >> Thank you for using the ARIN Consultation and Suggestion Process. >> > > While I agree with the response given to the specific suggestion of using > scientific notation, it may be useful to consider part of the value > statement more as problem statement. As the available IPv4 free pool > becomes progressively more infinitesimal, representing the available free > pool as /8 equivalents will become more and more problematic. > > The primary point being that an accurate representation of the free pool > inventory will be useful even if it is in fact zero, however usefulness of > the current representation, based on a /8, is degrading and almost useless > at this point. > > Given that the free pool is currently slightly more than 500 /24s, and not > likely to exceed more than a couple thousand /24s for the foreseeable > future, I would recommend changing the representation from /8 to /24 > equivalents. This would probably be forever, but if somehow the inventory > made it above say 20 or 30 thousand /24s then maybe the representation > could be increased to /16 equivalents or beyond as appropriate. > > If necessary I can submit this as a new suggestions. > > Thanks > > > -- > ================================================ > David Farmer Email: farmer at umn.edu > Office of Information Technology > University of Minnesota > 2218 University Ave SE Phone: 1-612-626-0815 > Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 1-612-812-9952 > ================================================ > _______________________________________________ > ARIN-Consult > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN > Consult Mailing > List (ARIN-consult at arin.net). > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-consult Please contact the > ARIN Member Services > Help Desk at info at arin.net if you experience any issues. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scottleibrand at gmail.com Mon Jul 6 20:11:42 2015 From: scottleibrand at gmail.com (Scott Leibrand) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2015 17:11:42 -0700 Subject: [ARIN-consult] [ARIN-Suggestions] Response to Suggestion 2015.9: CONVERT IPV4 COUNTDOWN TO SCIENTIFIC NOTATION In-Reply-To: References: <559AF851.90002@arin.net> <559B0779.2050401@umn.edu> Message-ID: Yeah, just replace the home page /8 equivalents badge with that table, and I think everyone would be happy. -Scott On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 4:42 PM, McTim wrote: > Apologies for top-posting, but isn't the listing of /23s and /24s at > > https://www.arin.net/resources/request/ipv4_countdown.html > > a good enough counter? > > rgds, > > McTim > > > On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 6:55 PM, David Farmer wrote: > >> On 7/6/15 16:51 , ARIN wrote: >> >>> ARIN has issued its response to ACSP Suggestion 2015.9. The suggestion >>> and response text are provided below. This suggestion is now closed and >>> is available at: >>> >>> https://www.arin.net/participate/acsp/suggestions/2015-9.html >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Communications and Member Services >>> American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN) >>> >>> **** >>> Suggestion: * >>> >>> Value to Community: As the available IPv4 free pool becomes >>> progressively more infinitesimal, the legibility of the tiny fraction of >>> a /8 remaining will be much better in scientific notation. For example, >>> today we are at 0.00847. 8.47E-3 is a bit easier to read. As the decimal >>> moves farther to the left, the effect will be more pronounced. >>> This is semi-tongue in cheek, but I couldn't resist. The reality is I >>> don't expect the counter to be relevant long enough for this suggestion >>> to get implemented. It's time to recognize that IPv4 is over and turn >>> our focus to IPv6 deployment. >>> >>> *Response:* >>> >>> Thank you for your suggestion (2015-9) on the topic of changing how ARIN >>> displays the last remaining IPv4 free pool inventory. Although this type >>> of notation could be helpful to some, we have received only one >>> suggestion (from you) to make this change. We agree with your statement >>> that indicates the IPv4 free pool may deplete sooner than we could >>> prioritize this suggestion for implementation. For that reason, we are >>> closing this suggestion without taking further action. >>> Thank you for using the ARIN Consultation and Suggestion Process. >>> >> >> While I agree with the response given to the specific suggestion of using >> scientific notation, it may be useful to consider part of the value >> statement more as problem statement. As the available IPv4 free pool >> becomes progressively more infinitesimal, representing the available free >> pool as /8 equivalents will become more and more problematic. >> >> The primary point being that an accurate representation of the free pool >> inventory will be useful even if it is in fact zero, however usefulness of >> the current representation, based on a /8, is degrading and almost useless >> at this point. >> >> Given that the free pool is currently slightly more than 500 /24s, and >> not likely to exceed more than a couple thousand /24s for the foreseeable >> future, I would recommend changing the representation from /8 to /24 >> equivalents. This would probably be forever, but if somehow the inventory >> made it above say 20 or 30 thousand /24s then maybe the representation >> could be increased to /16 equivalents or beyond as appropriate. >> >> If necessary I can submit this as a new suggestions. >> >> Thanks >> >> >> -- >> ================================================ >> David Farmer Email: farmer at umn.edu >> Office of Information Technology >> University of Minnesota >> 2218 University Ave SE Phone: 1-612-626-0815 >> Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 1-612-812-9952 >> ================================================ >> _______________________________________________ >> ARIN-Consult >> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN >> Consult Mailing >> List (ARIN-consult at arin.net). >> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-consult Please contact the >> ARIN Member Services >> Help Desk at info at arin.net if you experience any issues. >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > ARIN-Consult > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN > Consult Mailing > List (ARIN-consult at arin.net). > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-consult Please contact the > ARIN Member Services > Help Desk at info at arin.net if you experience any issues. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jcurran at arin.net Mon Jul 6 20:24:56 2015 From: jcurran at arin.net (John Curran) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2015 00:24:56 +0000 Subject: [ARIN-consult] [ARIN-Suggestions] Response to Suggestion 2015.9: CONVERT IPV4 COUNTDOWN TO SCIENTIFIC NOTATION In-Reply-To: <559B0779.2050401@umn.edu> References: <559AF851.90002@arin.net> <559B0779.2050401@umn.edu> Message-ID: On Jul 6, 2015, at 6:55 PM, David Farmer wrote: > > While I agree with the response given to the specific suggestion of using scientific notation, it may be useful to consider part of the value statement more as problem statement. As the available IPv4 free pool becomes progressively more infinitesimal, representing the available free pool as /8 equivalents will become more and more problematic. David - Note that the actual relevance of the total IPv4 free pool counter to practical IPv4 address planning efforts will become moot during the same time period. > The primary point being that an accurate representation of the free pool inventory will be useful even if it is in fact zero, however usefulness of the current representation, based on a /8, is degrading and almost useless at this point. If you click on the total pool counter, the detail of the available free pool in terms of number of address blocks of each size is provided. To the extent that is possible to make _any_ meaningful strategic decisions in address space management based on the remaining IPv4 free pool (as it approaches zero), the information that would have any relevance in that process is the detailed breakdown of address blocks and not the total IPv4 space counter. At the present time, we are focusing on high impact software development efforts that are actively sought by the community, In light of the lack of community support for your suggestion and the fact that the information is already readily available to those deem it to be meaningful, your suggestion was closed without further action. We are likely to phase out the total IPv4 free pool counter and replace it with the detailed address pool information upon hitting zero. From that point forward, the detailed address pool information (and potentially some public summary of the waiting list status) is likely more meaningful to IPv4 address planning efforts of those who have not moved onto the IPv4 transfer market or IPv6 for their network growth needs. Thank you, /John John Curran President and CEO ARIN From marty at akamai.com Mon Jul 6 22:54:44 2015 From: marty at akamai.com (Hannigan, Martin) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2015 02:54:44 +0000 Subject: [ARIN-consult] [ARIN-Suggestions] Response to Suggestion 2015.9: CONVERT IPV4 COUNTDOWN TO SCIENTIFIC NOTATION In-Reply-To: References: <559AF851.90002@arin.net> <559B0779.2050401@umn.edu> Message-ID: A complete representation of every _single address in ARIN?s possession at all times would be perfectly reasonable to request and to expect. I prefer David?s notation, and /24?s would be perfectly fine and enable most less-technical people to easily understand. We are out. Transparency, anyone? Best, -M< On Jul 6, 2015, at 8:11 PM, Scott Leibrand > wrote: Yeah, just replace the home page /8 equivalents badge with that table, and I think everyone would be happy. -Scott On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 4:42 PM, McTim > wrote: Apologies for top-posting, but isn't the listing of /23s and /24s at https://www.arin.net/resources/request/ipv4_countdown.html a good enough counter? rgds, McTim On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 6:55 PM, David Farmer > wrote: On 7/6/15 16:51 , ARIN wrote: ARIN has issued its response to ACSP Suggestion 2015.9. The suggestion and response text are provided below. This suggestion is now closed and is available at: https://www.arin.net/participate/acsp/suggestions/2015-9.html Regards, Communications and Member Services American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN) **** Suggestion: * Value to Community: As the available IPv4 free pool becomes progressively more infinitesimal, the legibility of the tiny fraction of a /8 remaining will be much better in scientific notation. For example, today we are at 0.00847. 8.47E-3 is a bit easier to read. As the decimal moves farther to the left, the effect will be more pronounced. This is semi-tongue in cheek, but I couldn't resist. The reality is I don't expect the counter to be relevant long enough for this suggestion to get implemented. It's time to recognize that IPv4 is over and turn our focus to IPv6 deployment. *Response:* Thank you for your suggestion (2015-9) on the topic of changing how ARIN displays the last remaining IPv4 free pool inventory. Although this type of notation could be helpful to some, we have received only one suggestion (from you) to make this change. We agree with your statement that indicates the IPv4 free pool may deplete sooner than we could prioritize this suggestion for implementation. For that reason, we are closing this suggestion without taking further action. Thank you for using the ARIN Consultation and Suggestion Process. While I agree with the response given to the specific suggestion of using scientific notation, it may be useful to consider part of the value statement more as problem statement. As the available IPv4 free pool becomes progressively more infinitesimal, representing the available free pool as /8 equivalents will become more and more problematic. The primary point being that an accurate representation of the free pool inventory will be useful even if it is in fact zero, however usefulness of the current representation, based on a /8, is degrading and almost useless at this point. Given that the free pool is currently slightly more than 500 /24s, and not likely to exceed more than a couple thousand /24s for the foreseeable future, I would recommend changing the representation from /8 to /24 equivalents. This would probably be forever, but if somehow the inventory made it above say 20 or 30 thousand /24s then maybe the representation could be increased to /16 equivalents or beyond as appropriate. If necessary I can submit this as a new suggestions. Thanks -- ================================================ David Farmer Email: farmer at umn.edu Office of Information Technology University of Minnesota 2218 University Ave SE Phone: 1-612-626-0815 Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 1-612-812-9952 ================================================ _______________________________________________ ARIN-Consult You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Consult Mailing List (ARIN-consult at arin.net). Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-consult Please contact the ARIN Member Services Help Desk at info at arin.net if you experience any issues. _______________________________________________ ARIN-Consult You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Consult Mailing List (ARIN-consult at arin.net). Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-consult Please contact the ARIN Member Services Help Desk at info at arin.net if you experience any issues. _______________________________________________ ARIN-Consult You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Consult Mailing List (ARIN-consult at arin.net). Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-consult Please contact the ARIN Member Services Help Desk at info at arin.net if you experience any issues. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jcurran at arin.net Tue Jul 7 00:02:32 2015 From: jcurran at arin.net (John Curran) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2015 04:02:32 +0000 Subject: [ARIN-consult] [ARIN-Suggestions] Response to Suggestion 2015.9: CONVERT IPV4 COUNTDOWN TO SCIENTIFIC NOTATION In-Reply-To: References: <559AF851.90002@arin.net> <559B0779.2050401@umn.edu> Message-ID: <918E0F33-7CCF-47F9-A60A-A48D21B370A1@corp.arin.net> On Jul 6, 2015, at 10:54 PM, Hannigan, Martin wrote: > A complete representation of every _single address in ARIN?s possession at all times would be perfectly reasonable to request and to expect. I prefer David?s notation, and /24?s would be perfectly fine and enable most less-technical people to easily understand. We are out. > > Transparency, anyone? A vote for transparency in the representation of the entire address registry is incongerous with providing just a single counter of /24?s in the IPv4 free pool, as the one dimensional nature of a counter does not doesn?t provide any meaningful information about the distribution of available address blocks. Once the the "/8 equivalents? counter is deprecated at IPv4 runout, we can include a summation (at the bottom of the IPv4 available block inventory) in /24 equivalents for those who want an easy reference to the total. Changing the current counter and providing that information absent the full context of the actual inventory would be extremely misleading in certain circumstances (such as immediately after IANA remaining block distribution.) Thanks, /John John Curran President and CEO ARIN From info at arin.net Wed Jul 29 16:04:03 2015 From: info at arin.net (ARIN) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2015 16:04:03 -0400 Subject: [ARIN-consult] Consultation on Registration Services Agreement Now Open Message-ID: <55B931B3.30406@arin.net> ARIN is seeking community input on a new version of the Registration Services Agreement that combines the existing Registration Services Agreement (RSA) and Legacy Registration Services Agreement (LRSA) into a single agreement (?RSA Version 12.0/LRSA Version 4.0?). Following community consultation and finalization, ARIN will provide services to new parties per this latest version of the Registration Services Agreement. Existing holders of Internet number resources will have the opportunity to upgrade to this new version of the Registration Services Agreement or remain with their current Registration Services Agreement. There are notable and substantive changes with this new version incorporating input received from the community on the Registration Services Agreements. These changes include: * Clarifying that the agreement is only applicable to ?Included Number Resources? (i.e. the Internet number resources pursuant to the agreement, not any other number resources that parties may hold under other agreements or no agreement) * Similarly clarifying that the provision wherein a Customer is agreeing that ?Included Number Resources? are not property is only applicable to ?Included Number Resources? in the agreement and remains silent with regard to any other number resources held by the party * Providing uniform service terms and conditions (other than fees) for all customers receiving services from ARIN * Elaborating on the definition of ARIN?s services that are covered by the agreement, including resource certification * Providing a more balanced agreement with respect to term language previously seen as favorable to ARIN The new RSA Version 12.0/LRSA Version 4.0 is available at the following URL: https://www.arin.net/resources/agreements/rsa_draft_ver12.pdf We strongly encourage you to review the current RSA and LRSA against the proposed version of this new agreement and to submit your constructive comments to arin-consult at arin.net. Discussion on arin-consult at arin.net will close on 30 August 2015. ARIN seeks clear direction through community input, so your feedback is important. If you have any questions, please contact us at info at arin.net. Thank you, /John John Curran President and CEO American Registry for Internet Numbers