[ARIN-consult] [arin-announce] Fee Schedule Change Consultation

[Jesse D. Geddis]

Brian,

	The hyperbolic verbiage aside the point has been mentioned by many.
Whether it's all of us subsidizing, flat out, organizations responsible
for arguably some of the biggest waste of resources or smaller
organizations subsidizing larger organizations it's all the same.

	When you take a small who pays 2,250 to consume 8,000 IP's and compare
that to a large who pays $18k to consume a minimum of 262k ip's up to an
unlimited amount it seems massively disproportionate.

The large pays _at_most_ $0.14 per IP while the small pays $3.64 per IP.

The fees don't encourage efficient use of address space via a financial
stick. For example if I have a /14 and am requesting another /16 what the
heck do I care how efficiently it's used? Anything else I get assigned is
completely free.

The fees put the burden on the backs of smaller organizations to carry the
water for organizations responsible for the most waste.


-- 
Jesse D. Geddis

LA Broadband LLC





On 11/14/12 8:46 AM, "Brian Johnson" <bjohnson at drtel.com> wrote:

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Owen DeLong [mailto:owen at delong.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 10:30 AM
> To: Brian Johnson
> Cc: John Curran; arin-consult at arin.net
> Subject: Re: [ARIN-consult] [arin-announce] Fee Schedule Change
> Consultation
> 
> 
> On Nov 14, 2012, at 07:52 , Brian Johnson <bjohnson at drtel.com> wrote:
> 
> > Owen,
> >
> > I'm not sure what you really expect to happen here. Do we give away
> services to everyone so that they are the same as legacy holders... that
> doesn't work. Do we start charging legacy holders for their resources
>without
> an agreement from them... I can feel the lawyers prepping papers right
>now.
> >
> 
> Several options...
> 
> 1.	Discontinue services to legacy holders that don't start paying.

How does this help the situation? The only "services" they get is WHOIS
details, which is more of a service to you and me than to them.
 
> 2.	Treat LRSA Signatories as a group that isn't subjected to the new
> fees.

So now we have institutionalized legacy space holders in policy/process
further. How do we unwind this later?

> 3.
> 
> > I will note that my understanding is that legacy holders will need to
>sign
> some kind of (L)RSA to get v6 space. They will then need to justify their
> assignment (at least the IPv6 assignment) to get space. Possibly they
>would
> have to "back justify" their legacy space? Maybe this is a way we can
>limp
> along with V4 longer?
> 
> As an example, a legacy holder with a /23 and a /24 of legacy IPv4 space
>and
> an ASN issued prior to ARIN formation pays $0.
> If that legacy holder signs the LRSA, they start paying $100/year. If
>they don't,
> they continue to pay $0.
> 
> If they get IPv6 space, then, they have to sign the RSA for their IPv6
>space
> and pay $100/year for that, but they are not required to sign the LRSA
>or RSA
> with regards to their IPv4 space. Under the current fee structure, they
>would
> pay $100/year whether or not they sign the LRSA for their IPv4 space.
> 
> Under the proposed fee structure, beginning with their 2013 billing, the
>one
> that did not sign the LRSA still pays $100/year only for their IPv6
>space and
> continues to pay $0 for everything else. The one that chose to
>participate in
> the ARIN process and sign the LRSA, OTOH, receives a bill not for $0,
>not for
> $100, but for $400/year.
> 
> Now, there is a small exception to this... If that LRSA signature
>occurred early
> enough, they may only get charged either $125 or $225, depending on how
> one interprets the combination of RSA terms and LRSA terms with the
> proposed fee structure in 2013, with that fee continuing to go up
>$25/year
> each year until it reaches the $400/year in either 7 or 11 years,
>depending on
> how ARIN determines the starting point.

Agree to all of the math. I'm in also in agreement that the legacy holders
are now in the position of being "takers" from the system as they have
public resources that are widely considered to be under-used. However, the
fees being charged here are pretty minor in the grand scheme of things.
Even the dramatic $400 dollars mentioned in the previous math comes down
to less than a 20oz bottle of [pick your favorite soft drink] a day.

> 
> > I think that I would like ARIN to avoid legal issues when possible.
>I'm not
> sure if ARIN counsel would want to chime in on sending bills to legacy
>space
> holders who have not signed an agreement with ARIN. This may help me in
> my processing of this topic.
> 
> 
> I would like ARIN to avoid legal issues too.
> 
> However, I also would like to avoid getting shafted in exchange for
>trying to
> be an upstanding member of the community.

I do not agree that anyone is getting "shafted" and I think this type of
verbiage does little to advance the topic. Also, you cannot force people
outside a community to act as you wish, even if they have a less than
positive impact on the community.

- Brian J.

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