From info at arin.net Mon Jul 23 11:04:45 2007 From: info at arin.net (Member Services) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 11:04:45 -0400 Subject: [consult] Call for Consultation: ARIN WHOIS Directory Services Message-ID: <46A4C38D.1060701@arin.net> ARIN received a suggestion to allow CIDR style queries to the ARIN WHOIS directory service. In addition to this enhancement, ARIN would like to explore other possible modifications that the community desires. ARIN requests that you provide specific feedback as to what additional WHOIS enhancements would benefit you and why they are needed. Discussion on this list will close at noon ET 27 July. A poll on the topic will be conducted beginning Tuesday, 31 July. Only subscribers on the consult at arin.net list when the poll opens will be eligible to participate. Poll results will be publicly available and will be used by the ARIN President to help determine what course of action, if any, ARIN should take regarding the subject. The ARIN Consultation and Suggestion Process documentation is available at: http://www.arin.net/about_us/corp_docs/acsp.html We welcome community-wide participation. Please address any process questions to info at arin.net. Regards, Member Services American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN) From evans at seidata.com Mon Jul 23 14:35:08 2007 From: evans at seidata.com (R. Scott Evans) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 14:35:08 -0400 Subject: [consult] Feature request: whois incorporating an rwhois sub-query In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I would love to see an rwhois referral query incorporated into the default results or with an additional switch. I know it could be (and possibly already is) incorporated into different whois clients, but in the past I have come across some rwhois servers that flat out didn't permit me to query them no matter when or where I queried them from. I suspect they permitted access to ARIN and no one else. By having the ARIN servers perform the rwhois query to the referral server and then appending it along with the current ARIN whois response it would lessen "selective" hearing. As an added bonus, it would reduce 1 additional step for the end user. Per the suggestion process on the ASCP webpage, I'm blindly proposing a time frame of a year but as this is not backed by anyone else yet I do not feel it is appropriate for me to request a time frame. -- R. Scott Evans Network Operations Manager SEI Data / SEI Communications 14005 US 50, Dillsboro IN 47018 (812) 667-5100 http://www.seidata.com From marla.azinger at frontiercorp.com Mon Jul 23 14:59:48 2007 From: marla.azinger at frontiercorp.com (Azinger, Marla) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 14:59:48 -0400 Subject: [consult] Feature request: whois incorporating an rwhois sub-query Message-ID: <454810F09B5AA04E9D78D13A5C39028A02A4C700@nyrofcs2ke2k01.corp.pvt> I would back that request. I have desired the same thing in the past, aAnd I operate an RWHOIS for my company. It would just make it alot easier on people trying to look at my RWHOIS DB. Cheers! Marla -----Original Message----- From: consult-bounces at arin.net [mailto:consult-bounces at arin.net]On Behalf Of R. Scott Evans Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 11:35 AM To: consult at arin.net Subject: [consult] Feature request: whois incorporating an rwhois sub-query I would love to see an rwhois referral query incorporated into the default results or with an additional switch. I know it could be (and possibly already is) incorporated into different whois clients, but in the past I have come across some rwhois servers that flat out didn't permit me to query them no matter when or where I queried them from. I suspect they permitted access to ARIN and no one else. By having the ARIN servers perform the rwhois query to the referral server and then appending it along with the current ARIN whois response it would lessen "selective" hearing. As an added bonus, it would reduce 1 additional step for the end user. Per the suggestion process on the ASCP webpage, I'm blindly proposing a time frame of a year but as this is not backed by anyone else yet I do not feel it is appropriate for me to request a time frame. -- R. Scott Evans Network Operations Manager SEI Data / SEI Communications 14005 US 50, Dillsboro IN 47018 (812) 667-5100 http://www.seidata.com _______________________________________________ This message sent to you through the ARIN Consult Mailing List (consult at arin.net). Manage your mailing list subscription at: http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/consult From owen at delong.com Mon Jul 23 15:13:09 2007 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 12:13:09 -0700 Subject: [consult] Feature request: whois incorporating an rwhois sub-query In-Reply-To: <454810F09B5AA04E9D78D13A5C39028A02A4C700@nyrofcs2ke2k01.corp.pvt> References: <454810F09B5AA04E9D78D13A5C39028A02A4C700@nyrofcs2ke2k01.corp.pvt> Message-ID: <9338A3F0-7C0C-41A2-925E-E5917CD9AC77@delong.com> Personally, I think this is the incorrect solution to the problem, but, given that the community seems to oppose the correct solution (the implementation of policy requiring that RWHOIS servers used for ARIN policy compliance be visible to the internet), I would support this alternative under the current circumstances. Owen On Jul 23, 2007, at 11:59 AM, Azinger, Marla wrote: > I would back that request. I have desired the same thing in the > past, aAnd I operate an RWHOIS for my company. It would just make > it alot easier on people trying to look at my RWHOIS DB. > > Cheers! > Marla > > -----Original Message----- > From: consult-bounces at arin.net [mailto:consult-bounces at arin.net]On > Behalf Of R. Scott Evans > Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 11:35 AM > To: consult at arin.net > Subject: [consult] Feature request: whois incorporating an rwhois > sub-query > > > I would love to see an rwhois referral query incorporated into the > default results or with an additional switch. I know it could be > (and possibly already is) incorporated into different whois clients, > but in the past I have come across some rwhois servers that flat out > didn't permit me to query them no matter when or where I queried them > from. I suspect they permitted access to ARIN and no one else. By > having the ARIN servers perform the rwhois query to the referral > server and then appending it along with the current ARIN whois > response it would lessen "selective" hearing. As an added bonus, it > would reduce 1 additional step for the end user. > > Per the suggestion process on the ASCP webpage, I'm blindly proposing > a time frame of a year but as this is not backed by anyone else yet I > do not feel it is appropriate for me to request a time frame. > > -- > R. Scott Evans > Network Operations Manager > SEI Data / SEI Communications > 14005 US 50, Dillsboro IN 47018 > (812) 667-5100 > http://www.seidata.com > _______________________________________________ > This message sent to you through the ARIN Consult Mailing List > (consult at arin.net). > Manage your mailing list subscription at: > http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/consult > _______________________________________________ > This message sent to you through the ARIN Consult Mailing List > (consult at arin.net). > Manage your mailing list subscription at: > http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/consult From marla.azinger at frontiercorp.com Mon Jul 23 15:20:05 2007 From: marla.azinger at frontiercorp.com (Azinger, Marla) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 15:20:05 -0400 Subject: [consult] Feature request: whois incorporating an rwhois sub-query Message-ID: <454810F09B5AA04E9D78D13A5C39028A02A4C705@nyrofcs2ke2k01.corp.pvt> true, doing it right is preferred...but removing a speed bump just may be easier. Or...providing the steps to get over the hurdle... ok.. done with the metaphors now. ;o) ~Marla -----Original Message----- From: Owen DeLong [mailto:owen at delong.com] Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 12:13 PM To: Azinger, Marla Cc: R. Scott Evans; consult at arin.net Subject: Re: [consult] Feature request: whois incorporating an rwhois sub-query Personally, I think this is the incorrect solution to the problem, but, given that the community seems to oppose the correct solution (the implementation of policy requiring that RWHOIS servers used for ARIN policy compliance be visible to the internet), I would support this alternative under the current circumstances. Owen On Jul 23, 2007, at 11:59 AM, Azinger, Marla wrote: > I would back that request. I have desired the same thing in the > past, aAnd I operate an RWHOIS for my company. It would just make > it alot easier on people trying to look at my RWHOIS DB. > > Cheers! > Marla > > -----Original Message----- > From: consult-bounces at arin.net [mailto:consult-bounces at arin.net]On > Behalf Of R. Scott Evans > Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 11:35 AM > To: consult at arin.net > Subject: [consult] Feature request: whois incorporating an rwhois > sub-query > > > I would love to see an rwhois referral query incorporated into the > default results or with an additional switch. I know it could be > (and possibly already is) incorporated into different whois clients, > but in the past I have come across some rwhois servers that flat out > didn't permit me to query them no matter when or where I queried them > from. I suspect they permitted access to ARIN and no one else. By > having the ARIN servers perform the rwhois query to the referral > server and then appending it along with the current ARIN whois > response it would lessen "selective" hearing. As an added bonus, it > would reduce 1 additional step for the end user. > > Per the suggestion process on the ASCP webpage, I'm blindly proposing > a time frame of a year but as this is not backed by anyone else yet I > do not feel it is appropriate for me to request a time frame. > > -- > R. Scott Evans > Network Operations Manager > SEI Data / SEI Communications > 14005 US 50, Dillsboro IN 47018 > (812) 667-5100 > http://www.seidata.com > _______________________________________________ > This message sent to you through the ARIN Consult Mailing List > (consult at arin.net). > Manage your mailing list subscription at: > http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/consult > _______________________________________________ > This message sent to you through the ARIN Consult Mailing List > (consult at arin.net). > Manage your mailing list subscription at: > http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/consult From bicknell at ufp.org Mon Jul 23 15:43:16 2007 From: bicknell at ufp.org (Leo Bicknell) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 15:43:16 -0400 Subject: [consult] Feature request: whois incorporating an rwhois sub-query In-Reply-To: <9338A3F0-7C0C-41A2-925E-E5917CD9AC77@delong.com> References: <454810F09B5AA04E9D78D13A5C39028A02A4C700@nyrofcs2ke2k01.corp.pvt> <9338A3F0-7C0C-41A2-925E-E5917CD9AC77@delong.com> Message-ID: <20070723194316.GA87943@ussenterprise.ufp.org> In a message written on Mon, Jul 23, 2007 at 12:13:09PM -0700, Owen DeLong wrote: > Personally, I think this is the incorrect solution to the problem, but, > given that the community seems to oppose the correct solution > (the implementation of policy requiring that RWHOIS servers used > for ARIN policy compliance be visible to the internet), I would support > this alternative under the current circumstances. Back in the day my employer did everything via rwhois, and did the right thing and made the rwhois server available to the general public. About 5 years ago they converted from using rwhois to SWIP for one very simple reason. The ARIN rwhois server did not follow referrals. If someone looked up part of our block the answer they always got from ARIN was 1.2.3.4/16, our parent block and NONE of the subdelegations. We actually wanted them to get the subdelegations so simple abuse issues could be handled by our customers (since many were responsible ISP's) rather than hitting our abuse desk. However, since at the time no clients followed referrals, and the ARIN server did not follow them either a project was done to move everything to SWIP and retire the rwhois server. I don't think we were the only ISP with this issue. I strongly agree with Owen that rwhois servers need to be available to the general Internet 24x7x365, and that ARIN should test for that and weigh the availability in evaluating new requests from an applicant. However I don't think that having the ARIN server follow referrals will make much difference with that problem, and it may fix things such that many more people will use rwhois. The situation is somewhat better now in that some popular clients seem to follow referrals now. However, that being the case makes it even siller that ARIN's server will not. Please follow rwhois referrals. Please support CIDR style queries. -- Leo Bicknell - bicknell at ufp.org - CCIE 3440 PGP keys at http://www.ufp.org/~bicknell/ Read TMBG List - tmbg-list-request at tmbg.org, www.tmbg.org From paul at vix.com Mon Jul 23 15:46:32 2007 From: paul at vix.com (Paul Vixie) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 19:46:32 +0000 Subject: [consult] Feature request: whois incorporating an rwhois sub-query In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 23 Jul 2007 15:43:16 -0400." <20070723194316.GA87943@ussenterprise.ufp.org> References: <454810F09B5AA04E9D78D13A5C39028A02A4C700@nyrofcs2ke2k01.corp.pvt> <9338A3F0-7C0C-41A2-925E-E5917CD9AC77@delong.com> <20070723194316.GA87943@ussenterprise.ufp.org> Message-ID: <30472.1185219992@sa.vix.com> a long long time ago, we proposed SRV RRs in in-addr blocks, along the lines of RFC 1101 network names, so that each network could identify its own whois server. From Ed.Lewis at neustar.biz Tue Jul 24 16:27:57 2007 From: Ed.Lewis at neustar.biz (Edward Lewis) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 15:27:57 -0500 Subject: [consult] Feature request: whois incorporating an rwhois sub-query In-Reply-To: <30472.1185219992@sa.vix.com> References: <454810F09B5AA04E9D78D13A5C39028A02A4C700@nyrofcs2ke2k01.corp.pvt> <9338A3F0-7C0C-41A2-925E-E5917CD9AC77@delong.com> <20070723194316.GA87943@ussenterprise.ufp.org> <30472.1185219992@sa.vix.com> Message-ID: At 19:46 +0000 7/23/07, Paul Vixie wrote: >a long long time ago, we proposed SRV RRs in in-addr blocks, along the >lines of RFC 1101 network names, so that each network could identify its >own whois server. I like this, we did this in our forward zones. I'm replying to emphasize that this is the type of (potential) feature that makes me cringe when I see proposals that want to remove "in-addr" delegations as punishment for not complying with some criteria. (I'm just saying...) -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis +1-571-434-5468 NeuStar Think glocally. Act confused. From martin.hannigan at batelnet.bs Tue Jul 24 20:06:24 2007 From: martin.hannigan at batelnet.bs (Martin Hannigan) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 20:06:24 -0400 Subject: [consult] Call for Consultation: ARIN WHOIS Directory Services Message-ID: <46a69400.da.2215.19503@batelnet.bs> I support this change. -M< ----- Original Message ----- From: Member Services To: consult at arin.net Subject: [consult] Call for Consultation: ARIN WHOIS Directory Services Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 11:04:45 -0400 > ARIN received a suggestion to allow CIDR style queries to > the ARIN WHOIS directory service. In addition to this > enhancement, ARIN would like to explore other possible > modifications that the community desires. ARIN requests > that you provide specific feedback as to what additional > WHOIS enhancements would benefit you and why they are > needed. > > Discussion on this list will close at noon ET 27 July. A > poll on the topic will be conducted beginning Tuesday, 31 > July. Only subscribers on the consult at arin.net list when > the poll opens will be eligible to participate. Poll > results will be publicly available and will be used by > the ARIN President to help determine what course of action > , if any, ARIN should take regarding the subject. > > The ARIN Consultation and Suggestion Process documentation > is available at: > http://www.arin.net/about_us/corp_docs/acsp.html > > We welcome community-wide participation. Please address > any process questions to info at arin.net. > > Regards, > > Member Services > American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN) > > > _______________________________________________ > This message sent to you through the ARIN Consult Mailing > List (consult at arin.net). > Manage your mailing list subscription at: > http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/consult From michael.c.loevner at verizon.com Wed Jul 25 10:25:38 2007 From: michael.c.loevner at verizon.com (michael.c.loevner at verizon.com) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 10:25:38 -0400 Subject: [consult] Call for Consultation: ARIN WHOIS Directory Services In-Reply-To: <46A4C38D.1060701@arin.net> Message-ID: Reposting from ARIN discuss: For example, I personally would like to see the following (not picking on AT&T, just an easy example to use): 1. Entering "12.0.0.0/8" returns only the record for that exact CIDR block, if 12.0.0.0/9 were entered in this fashion, it would provide no results. 2. Entering ">!12.0.0.0/8" returns all records for 12.0.0.0/8 and all network within subdelegated from 12.0.0.0/8. This query returns far too many records to be of much use (to me, and I think it crashed my browser) and this can already be done with nethandles, but my next example currently cannot. 3. Entering ">!12.111.0.0/16" returns all networks falling within the 12.111.0.0/16 CIDR boundary. Since 12.111.0.0/16 is not a currently registered address block, this adds a new level of functionality that would be appreciated, and provides me with a list of a couple hundred records rather than the unmanageable number that comes up from querying the whole block. 4. Also, if I entered ">!12.0.0.0/7", I would like to see all reassignments of both 12.0.0.0/8 and 13.0.0.0/8 as well as the records for both 12.0.0.0/8 and 13.0.0.0/8. The CIDR queries should allow us to query a portion of a registered block as well as across multiple registered blocks. The only caveat is the number of records returned possbly bogging down the database. Maybe there should there be a limit on the number of records or the length of the prefix that can be queried. -Mike "Member Services" Sent by: consult-bounces at arin.net 07/23/2007 11:04 AM To consult at arin.net cc Subject [consult] Call for Consultation: ARIN WHOIS Directory Services ARIN received a suggestion to allow CIDR style queries to the ARIN WHOIS directory service. In addition to this enhancement, ARIN would like to explore other possible modifications that the community desires. ARIN requests that you provide specific feedback as to what additional WHOIS enhancements would benefit you and why they are needed. Discussion on this list will close at noon ET 27 July. A poll on the topic will be conducted beginning Tuesday, 31 July. Only subscribers on the consult at arin.net list when the poll opens will be eligible to participate. Poll results will be publicly available and will be used by the ARIN President to help determine what course of action, if any, ARIN should take regarding the subject. The ARIN Consultation and Suggestion Process documentation is available at: http://www.arin.net/about_us/corp_docs/acsp.html We welcome community-wide participation. Please address any process questions to info at arin.net. Regards, Member Services American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN) _______________________________________________ This message sent to you through the ARIN Consult Mailing List (consult at arin.net). Manage your mailing list subscription at: http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/consult From michael.c.loevner at verizon.com Wed Jul 25 10:36:52 2007 From: michael.c.loevner at verizon.com (michael.c.loevner at verizon.com) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 10:36:52 -0400 Subject: [consult] Call for Consultation: ARIN WHOIS Directory Services In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The limit actually doesn't exist for queries that are preceded with !>, like a !>(nethandle) will produce more than 256 records currently. Mike "Charles Gucker" 07/25/2007 10:30 AM To Michael C. Loevner/EMPL/VA/Verizon at VZNotes cc consult at arin.net Subject Re: [consult] Call for Consultation: ARIN WHOIS Directory Services > The CIDR queries should allow us to query a portion of a registered block > as well as across multiple registered blocks. The only caveat is the > number of records returned possbly bogging down the database. Maybe there > should there be a limit on the number of records or the length of the > prefix that can be queried. From the previous topic on consult, the limit is set to 256 records (or is it 255). So one would assume this limit would still hold true. charles. From heather.schiller at verizonbusiness.com Wed Jul 25 10:46:02 2007 From: heather.schiller at verizonbusiness.com (Heather Schiller) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 14:46:02 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [consult] Call for Consultation: ARIN WHOIS Directory Services In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You are both correct. The limit is in place for some searches, for example a company name, like 'IBM'.. and there isn't much you can do to get around it, other than to email hostmaster and request the full dump. Search results for: IBM # This query resulted in more than 256 records. Remaining results # have been truncated. For more specific results, go to # http://ws.arin.net/whois for help in refining your query. ..and not in place for some other types of searches. --Heather On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 michael.c.loevner at verizon.com wrote: > The limit actually doesn't exist for queries that are preceded with !>, > like a !>(nethandle) will produce more than 256 records currently. > > Mike > > > > "Charles Gucker" > 07/25/2007 10:30 AM > > To > Michael C. Loevner/EMPL/VA/Verizon at VZNotes > cc > consult at arin.net > Subject > Re: [consult] Call for Consultation: ARIN WHOIS Directory Services > > > > > > >> The CIDR queries should allow us to query a portion of a registered > block >> as well as across multiple registered blocks. The only caveat is the >> number of records returned possbly bogging down the database. Maybe > there >> should there be a limit on the number of records or the length of the >> prefix that can be queried. > > From the previous topic on consult, the limit is set to 256 > records (or is it 255). So one would assume this limit would still > hold true. > > charles. > > > > _______________________________________________ > This message sent to you through the ARIN Consult Mailing List > (consult at arin.net). > Manage your mailing list subscription at: > http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/consult > From heather.schiller at verizonbusiness.com Wed Jul 25 17:09:25 2007 From: heather.schiller at verizonbusiness.com (Heather Schiller) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 21:09:25 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [consult] Call for Consultation: ARIN WHOIS Directory Services In-Reply-To: <46A4C38D.1060701@arin.net> References: <46A4C38D.1060701@arin.net> Message-ID: I support the existing suggestions of: -support for CIDR queries -Following rwhois referrals -method to login online and manage your swip records and other arin records (would be even better if the login method was with an RSA token or the like) -Most of Mike Loevner's post - except that searching for 12.0.0.0/9 should return the /8 (not nothing at all, because IMO, that would be misleading) And would like to add the following suggestions: -Whowas info - be able to search historical whois info enter a prefix and specify a date range or starting date with a default through the present. This would help in researching claims of hijacked blocks. -Clearly Mark Early Registration records with ERX as RIPE does - and remove the ERX marking when a resource is brought uptodate/under RSA -Mark 'invalid contact information' on whois records when it has been reported and confirmed by ARIN staff as such -Be able to enter a POC handle and get a listing of the resources where that POC handle is a contact. -Add the ability to prepend searches with * for wildcard to be able to do wildcard searches on the beginning instead of just the tail --Heather ############################################### # Heather Schiller # # Customer Security & IP Address Management # # 800.900.0241 # # security at mci.com # ############################################### On Mon, 23 Jul 2007, Member Services wrote: > ARIN received a suggestion to allow CIDR style queries to the ARIN WHOIS > directory service. In addition to this enhancement, ARIN would like to > explore other possible modifications that the community desires. ARIN > requests that you provide specific feedback as to what additional WHOIS > enhancements would benefit you and why they are needed. > > Discussion on this list will close at noon ET 27 July. A poll on the > topic will be conducted beginning Tuesday, 31 July. Only subscribers on > the consult at arin.net list when the poll opens will be eligible to > participate. Poll results will be publicly available and will be used by > the ARIN President to help determine what course of action, if any, ARIN > should take regarding the subject. > > The ARIN Consultation and Suggestion Process documentation is available at: > http://www.arin.net/about_us/corp_docs/acsp.html > > We welcome community-wide participation. Please address any process > questions to info at arin.net. > > Regards, > > Member Services > American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN) > > > _______________________________________________ > This message sent to you through the ARIN Consult Mailing List > (consult at arin.net). > Manage your mailing list subscription at: > http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/consult > From dlw+arin at tellme.com Thu Jul 26 12:09:01 2007 From: dlw+arin at tellme.com (David Williamson) Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 09:09:01 -0700 Subject: [consult] Call for Consultation: ARIN WHOIS Directory Services In-Reply-To: References: <46A4C38D.1060701@arin.net> Message-ID: <20070726160901.GN24890@shell01.corp.tellme.com> I wanted to followup on Heather's suggestions, because I think she's managed a very thorough listing of the ideas floating around the community. On Wed, Jul 25, 2007 at 09:09:25PM +0000, Heather Schiller wrote: > I support the existing suggestions of: > -support for CIDR queries > -Following rwhois referrals > -Most of Mike Loevner's post - except that searching for 12.0.0.0/9 > should return the /8 (not nothing at all, because IMO, that would be > misleading) These three are absolutely must-haves, and I agree with Heather's final point. > -method to login online and manage your swip records and other arin > records (would be even better if the login method was with an RSA token > or the like) I suspect this would be really useful for PA holders. As a PI member, I don't have nearly as much use for this, but I can see the utility of it. > And would like to add the following suggestions: > > -Whowas info - be able to search historical whois info enter a prefix and > specify a date range or starting date with a default through the present. > This would help in researching claims of hijacked blocks. An interesting idea, although I suspect this would take a lot more time to implement. Let's make this a secondary priority, although an important one. > -Clearly Mark Early Registration records with ERX as RIPE does - and > remove the ERX marking when a resource is brought uptodate/under RSA Yes, please. This one seems pretty easy, frankly. > -Mark 'invalid contact information' on whois records when it has been > reported and confirmed by ARIN staff as such This would be useful...any ideas on how many records would be impacted? > -Be able to enter a POC handle and get a listing of the resources where > that POC handle is a contact. I'm always surprised when this doesn't work - please make this another top priority. > -Add the ability to prepend searches with * for wildcard > to be able to do wildcard searches on the beginning instead of just the > tail I would extend this to simply support some sort of regexp expansion. I think there's also a vital need for a web page or two that explains all of these features in the (at present hypothetical) new whois server. A usage guide would be a bare minimum requirement. Thanks! -David From Ed.Lewis at neustar.biz Thu Jul 26 13:16:41 2007 From: Ed.Lewis at neustar.biz (Edward Lewis) Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 13:16:41 -0400 Subject: [consult] Call for Consultation: ARIN WHOIS Directory Services In-Reply-To: <20070726160901.GN24890@shell01.corp.tellme.com> References: <46A4C38D.1060701@arin.net> <20070726160901.GN24890@shell01.corp.tellme.com> Message-ID: At 9:09 -0700 7/26/07, David Williamson wrote: >On Wed, Jul 25, 2007 at 09:09:25PM +0000, Heather Schiller wrote: >> I support the existing suggestions of: >> -support for CIDR queries BTW, as this was the original question of the consultation, I support this addition. >> -Clearly Mark Early Registration records with ERX as RIPE does - and >> remove the ERX marking when a resource is brought uptodate/under RSA > >Yes, please. This one seems pretty easy, frankly. I asked for this on PPML before: http://lists.arin.net/pipermail/ppml/2007-March/006085.html Got no takers... ..so, yes, I would actively support that suggestion. >> -Be able to enter a POC handle and get a listing of the resources where >> that POC handle is a contact. > >I'm always surprised when this doesn't work - please make this another top >priority. As much as I can see that being a desire, and I've tried to use it too, it shouldn't be easy to scan any company's (POC's) resources. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis +1-571-434-5468 NeuStar Think glocally. Act confused. From michael.c.loevner at verizon.com Thu Jul 26 13:42:16 2007 From: michael.c.loevner at verizon.com (michael.c.loevner at verizon.com) Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 13:42:16 -0400 Subject: [consult] Call for Consultation: ARIN WHOIS Directory Services In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Heather - I support all of your ideas other than: -Mark 'invalid contact information' on whois records when it has been reported and confirmed by ARIN staff as such and possibly not: Clearly Mark Early Registration records with ERX as RIPE does - and remove the ERX marking when a resource is brought uptodate/under RSA While I like the intent of the ideas, I have two objections: 1. I think marking invalid contact information can spur hijacking attempts on address blocks because it is like holding up a big flashing sign that says "vacant". While I assume ARIN has safeguards to determine the proper registrant of the block, do we want to give more people the chance to try them out? 2. Also, does a suggestion like this belong in the policy arena? I know that I have seen policies in the past that have suggested marking invalid records, as well as the marking for the ERX - I think that suggestion goes beyond functionality into content, which would normally be determined by policy. As far as the result of a query for 12.0.0.0/9 is concerned, it's nice for the WHOIS to return the address block the prefix is a part of, but what is the expected result when you do a query for a shorter prefix, like 64.0.0.0/4? That will give you every ARIN direct allocation and assignment over at least a four year period. If CIDR queries alone must match a record exactly to display data, it prevents people from accidentally bringing up thousands of records. I think showing multiple records, or the records that a prefix is part of should require a flag, like a - or + (although I know those are currently in use for other purposes). -Mike "Heather Schiller" Sent by: consult-bounces at arin.net 07/25/2007 05:09 PM To "Member Services" cc consult at arin.net Subject Re: [consult] Call for Consultation: ARIN WHOIS Directory Services I support the existing suggestions of: -support for CIDR queries -Following rwhois referrals -method to login online and manage your swip records and other arin records (would be even better if the login method was with an RSA token or the like) -Most of Mike Loevner's post - except that searching for 12.0.0.0/9 should return the /8 (not nothing at all, because IMO, that would be misleading) And would like to add the following suggestions: -Whowas info - be able to search historical whois info enter a prefix and specify a date range or starting date with a default through the present. This would help in researching claims of hijacked blocks. -Clearly Mark Early Registration records with ERX as RIPE does - and remove the ERX marking when a resource is brought uptodate/under RSA -Mark 'invalid contact information' on whois records when it has been reported and confirmed by ARIN staff as such -Be able to enter a POC handle and get a listing of the resources where that POC handle is a contact. -Add the ability to prepend searches with * for wildcard to be able to do wildcard searches on the beginning instead of just the tail --Heather ############################################### # Heather Schiller # # Customer Security & IP Address Management # # 800.900.0241 # # security at mci.com # ############################################### On Mon, 23 Jul 2007, Member Services wrote: > ARIN received a suggestion to allow CIDR style queries to the ARIN WHOIS > directory service. In addition to this enhancement, ARIN would like to > explore other possible modifications that the community desires. ARIN > requests that you provide specific feedback as to what additional WHOIS > enhancements would benefit you and why they are needed. > > Discussion on this list will close at noon ET 27 July. A poll on the > topic will be conducted beginning Tuesday, 31 July. Only subscribers on > the consult at arin.net list when the poll opens will be eligible to > participate. Poll results will be publicly available and will be used by > the ARIN President to help determine what course of action, if any, ARIN > should take regarding the subject. > > The ARIN Consultation and Suggestion Process documentation is available at: > http://www.arin.net/about_us/corp_docs/acsp.html > > We welcome community-wide participation. Please address any process > questions to info at arin.net. > > Regards, > > Member Services > American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN) > > > _______________________________________________ > This message sent to you through the ARIN Consult Mailing List > (consult at arin.net). > Manage your mailing list subscription at: > http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/consult > _______________________________________________ This message sent to you through the ARIN Consult Mailing List (consult at arin.net). Manage your mailing list subscription at: http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/consult From heather.schiller at verizonbusiness.com Thu Jul 26 16:15:07 2007 From: heather.schiller at verizonbusiness.com (Heather Schiller) Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 20:15:07 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [consult] Call for Consultation: ARIN WHOIS Directory Services In-Reply-To: References: <46A4C38D.1060701@arin.net> <20070726160901.GN24890@shell01.corp.tellme.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Jul 2007, Edward Lewis wrote: > At 9:09 -0700 7/26/07, David Williamson wrote: >> On Wed, Jul 25, 2007 at 09:09:25PM +0000, Heather Schiller wrote: >>> I support the existing suggestions of: >>> -support for CIDR queries > > BTW, as this was the original question of the consultation, I support this > addition. > >>> -Clearly Mark Early Registration records with ERX as RIPE does - and >>> remove the ERX marking when a resource is brought uptodate/under RSA >> >> Yes, please. This one seems pretty easy, frankly. > > I asked for this on PPML before: > http://lists.arin.net/pipermail/ppml/2007-March/006085.html > Got no takers... > > ..so, yes, I would actively support that suggestion. > >>> -Be able to enter a POC handle and get a listing of the resources where >>> that POC handle is a contact. >> >> I'm always surprised when this doesn't work - please make this another top >> priority. > > As much as I can see that being a desire, and I've tried to use it too, it > shouldn't be easy to scan any company's (POC's) resources. > I can already get your company's POC's by searching @neustar.biz BARNES, WALTER (WBA2-ARIN) walter.barnes at neustar.biz +1-571-434-5797 Chatfield, Terrence (TC565-ARIN) terry.chatfield at neustar.biz +1-571-434-5627 Network Engineering (NETWO336-ARIN) wan.engineering at neustar.biz +1-866-638-6622 and I can get a list of what your potential resources are by searching neustar* ..and I would have to walk through each one to find which WBA2-ARIN is the POC for. What I am asking is that this be consolidated into one step, to be able to search something like !> WBA2-ARIN and get a list of the resources that WBA2-ARIN is a POC for. True today, I can email ARIN and ask for the info. I (Verizon Business) have a ton of records and POC's listed.. I haven't endeavored on a project to ensure they are all up to date, because for each one I will have to email ARIN and ask them to provide a list of the resources associated to each POC, making it a large project. While ARIN helpdesk would be more than happy to provide this info, I'm much more likely to do something about it if I can clean them up as I find them, and get an answer in 5 seconds as opposed to a few hours or even a day ... my attention span is just that short. > -- > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Edward Lewis +1-571-434-5468 > NeuStar > > Think glocally. Act confused. > From michael.dillon at bt.com Thu Jul 26 16:48:09 2007 From: michael.dillon at bt.com (michael.dillon at bt.com) Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 21:48:09 +0100 Subject: [consult] Call for Consultation: ARIN WHOIS Directory Services In-Reply-To: <20070726160901.GN24890@shell01.corp.tellme.com> References: <46A4C38D.1060701@arin.net> <20070726160901.GN24890@shell01.corp.tellme.com> Message-ID: > > -Most of Mike Loevner's post - except that searching for > 12.0.0.0/9 > > should return the /8 (not nothing at all, because IMO, > that would be > > misleading) It strikes me that people are forgetting that we are dealing with IP address ranges, not CIDR blocks. ARIN does not allocate CIDR blocks, they allocate IP address ranges, especially to larger ISPs. Would it be too hard to have a plain English search language? If someone says: 12.0.0.0/9 Then only look for an exact match. Same thing if they say: 12.0.0.0-12.255.255.255 But if they say IN 12.0.0.0/9, only show exact matches or ranges entirely inside the search range OVERLAP 12.0.0.0/9 only show ranges which overlap the search range CONTAINS 12.0.0.0/9 only show ranges which contain the search range including exact matches. Allow a LIMIT clause that limits the number of entries returned, i.e LIMIT 10 would only return the 10 largest ranges. Allow a MINIMUM clause that also limits entries returned, i.e. MINIMUM /19 would only return ranges equal to or larger than /19 > > -method to login online and manage your swip records and > other arin > > records (would be even better if the login method was > with an RSA token > > or the like) I wonder if it is time to seriously look at a 1970's green-screen solution. Back then all applications involved a dumb terminal which logged into a UNIX server (or a mainframe) and ran an application. This was often done without shell access at all, i.e. the application was the shell. In this case, ARIN would offer access via SSH (not rlogin like the bad old days) so that top notch security can be used, but the application doesn't need to know about it. You don't need a special email client or special signing software. Just the stock SSH client. And the application could basically accept batch uploads of transactions, i.e. SCP as well as some interactive editing capability. > > -Whowas info - be able to search historical whois info > enter a prefix > > and specify a date range or starting date with a default > through the present. > > This would help in researching claims of hijacked blocks. I don't believe that ARIN has a mandate to help all comers to research such claims. And the issues of stale data and unclean data lead me to think it is better to leave the past alone. > > -Clearly Mark Early Registration records with ERX as RIPE > does - and > > remove the ERX marking when a resource is brought uptodate/under RSA > > Yes, please. This one seems pretty easy, frankly. In fact, mark every record with clear factual status. Who originally allocated the block if it is known. If not known, put that fact down. If a block is transferred, that is a fact. Put that in the status too. If email contact is lost, that is another fact. If postal mail is returned undelivered, another fact. If the last attempt at contact was 2007Mar23, that is another fact. Instead of keeping all this status invisible, display it all to us so people can see how complex things really are. If a nameserver is lame, mark that fact in the whois record. If a nameserver's name no longer exists, that is a fact. If the nameserver IP address no longer responds to DNS queries, another fact. Just give us the facts! > > -Add the ability to prepend searches with * for wildcard > > to be able to do wildcard searches on the beginning > instead of just > > the tail > > I would extend this to simply support some sort of regexp expansion. I agree. I do not like to see cryptic query syntax, but if ARIN did adopt some standard regular expression syntax wholesale, such as PCRE, then it would not be as bad. > I think there's also a vital need for a web page or two that > explains all of these features in the (at present > hypothetical) new whois server. A usage guide would be a > bare minimum requirement. Document everything! Yes. --Michael Dillon From owen at delong.com Thu Jul 26 18:35:26 2007 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 15:35:26 -0700 Subject: [consult] Call for Consultation: ARIN WHOIS Directory Services In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9A1FB28D-C086-4490-BBF5-B506A339A791@delong.com> What would people think of the following whois syntax? 192.168.0.0/16 Returns exactly 192.168.0.0/16 or nothing 192.168.0.0/16+ Returns all records which have portions within the range 192.168.0.0-192.168.255.255 192.168.0.0/16- Returns all records which contain 192.168.0.0/16. Owen From michael.dillon at bt.com Fri Jul 27 04:32:32 2007 From: michael.dillon at bt.com (michael.dillon at bt.com) Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 09:32:32 +0100 Subject: [consult] Call for Consultation: ARIN WHOIS Directory Services In-Reply-To: References: <46A4C38D.1060701@arin.net> <20070726160901.GN24890@shell01.corp.tellme.com> Message-ID: > > It strikes me that people are forgetting that we are > dealing with IP > > address ranges, not CIDR blocks. ARIN does not allocate > CIDR blocks, > > they allocate IP address ranges, especially to larger ISPs. > > Are you kidding me? ARIN allocates Internet Resources, which > we collectively refer to in CIDR notation, since the classful > schemes were left back in BGP v3. Referring to addresses in CIDR notation is not what I am talking about. Nor am I talking about VLSM in operations. Let's say that I can justify 45,000 addresses for my next ISP allocation. What will ARIN allocate me? If you said a /16, you would be wrong. In fact ARIN will allocate me a range of addresses such as 99.0.0.0-191.255.255. Of course, you can express this single allocated range as two CIDR blocks, 99.0.0.0/17 and 99.128.0.0/18 but the whois data will still show this as a single netrange. There is a difference between a range of IP addresses and a CIDR block. > Don't you mean .. 12.0.0.0-12.127.255.255 ? Another reason > some folks need it made easier to do the query than figure > out the ranges involved. Exactly. OVERLAP seems to be more useful than exact matching. > > Allow a LIMIT clause that limits the number of entries > returned, i.e > > LIMIT 10 would only return the 10 largest ranges. > > > > Allow a MINIMUM clause that also limits entries returned, > i.e. MINIMUM > > /19 would only return ranges equal to or larger than /19 > > Umm, wow is this overkill. As we have already discussed, the > 256 limit should be applied and adhered to. And what if I don't WANT 256 entries. What if I want to look for ranges only of a certain size? Or maybe I just want a screenful of the biggest ranges that overlap a search range. > Oh man. Web based portals make a much better look/feel/functionality > than a unix shell, And what about security? The issue is security of the communication channel between ARIN and the PA holders. --Michael Dillon From michael.c.loevner at verizon.com Fri Jul 27 11:06:46 2007 From: michael.c.loevner at verizon.com (michael.c.loevner at verizon.com) Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 11:06:46 -0400 Subject: [consult] Call for Consultation: ARIN WHOIS Directory Services In-Reply-To: <9A1FB28D-C086-4490-BBF5-B506A339A791@delong.com> Message-ID: Owen- That's really close to what I was thinking, with the only caveat being that - and + are already used for: + FULL output shows detailed display for EACH match - LIST output shows summary only, even if single match returned We probably need another identifier, but I like the idea. -Mike Owen DeLong 07/26/2007 06:35 PM To Michael C. Loevner/EMPL/VA/Verizon at VZNotes cc "Heather Schiller" , consult-bounces at arin.net, consult at arin.net Subject Re: [consult] Call for Consultation: ARIN WHOIS Directory Services What would people think of the following whois syntax? 192.168.0.0/16 Returns exactly 192.168.0.0/16 or nothing 192.168.0.0/16+ Returns all records which have portions within the range 192.168.0.0-192.168.255.255 192.168.0.0/16- Returns all records which contain 192.168.0.0/16. Owen From info at arin.net Fri Jul 27 12:27:42 2007 From: info at arin.net (Member Services) Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 12:27:42 -0400 Subject: [consult] WHOIS Enhancement Consultation Now Closed Message-ID: <46AA1CFE.1090209@arin.net> ARIN thanks the community for its input regarding the suggestion to allow CIDR style queries to the ARIN WHOIS directory services. Additional enhancements were suggested and will be reviewed. Given the nature of the feedback provided on the list, a subsequent polling is not necessary. ARIN staff will take all input under discussion and next week will report back to the community with its intended course of action regarding changes to ARIN WHOIS directory services. The archives of this discussion are available at: http://lists.arin.net/pipermail/consult/ Regards, Member Services American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN)