Need for numbers related to Hosting

I have a customer comming in that is transferring 3,000
web site, so I have a need for 3,000 IP addresses right!

The customer is not using SSL, is not using IP based accounting,
and does not depend upon search engines for anywhere from 30%
to 60% of the sites...

So, do I really need 3,000 IP addresses?
* Sales says yes, they want $3,000 per month in revenue ($1 per IP per
month_
* Customer says yes, it's too hard to configure name based hosting.
* The network dude (me) says:
	- Learn how, and educate the customer on name based hosting.
	- educate the sales team
	- the technocrat (me) wins they get what they need, not what they
want.

-----Original Message-----
From: Leo Gilbert [mailto:lgilbert at rawhideinc.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 3:03 PM
To: Clayton Lambert; Bill Darte; vwp at arin.net
Subject: RE: Need for numbers related to Hosting


Very true, As long as the need is justified they should be given the ip
address space. This still does not solve the space issue.

-----Original Message-----
From: Clayton Lambert [mailto:Clay at exodus.net]
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 2:51 PM
To: 'Bill Darte'; vwp at arin.net
Subject: RE: Need for numbers related to Hosting


Lack of published data does not preclude a real problem or potential
problem.

To require documented technical explanations from service providers is
primarily an issue of accountability and good practice.  If a service
provider has a need for address space, it should not have a problem with
providing a documented need for that request.  That brings up the issue
of
what a 'need' is...The way I see it, a need for IP addresses is founded
in
the technical requirement of the particular solution that is being
constructed.  This seems like common sense to me.  If a service provider
'needs' address space, then they should justify that need by virtue of a
physical amount of devices and a technically supported explanation of
any
additional IP needs beyond the physical requirement.  Why is this so
hard?
Service providers that don't want this policy seem to think that they
should
be granted as many IP addresses as they wish to have, without regard or
concern for the actual need they have, nor do they apparently desire to
have
any level of accountability levied towards them.

This is not that difficult...If the need is there, they should be given
the
IP space.



-Clay

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-vwp at arin.net [mailto:owner-vwp at arin.net]On Behalf Of Bill
Darte
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 11:41 AM
To: vwp at arin.net
Subject: Need for numbers related to Hosting


The point was not to nit pick your verbage, but to express my concern
for
recommending policy to the BoT based upon analysis devoid of fact which
fairly represents the problem and the urgency of remedy.  We can look at
the
overall depletion of the v4 address space and speculate on its demise
and
consequences.  I have seen absolutely no numbers associated with this
problem that suggests a magnitude and trend.
Bill Darte

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Clayton Lambert [mailto:Clay at exodus.net]
> Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 11:45 AM
> To: 'Bill Darte'; vwp at arin.net
> Subject: RE: Been quiet in here...
>
>
> I was generalizing, not being vague.  It is an interesting point that
> relates to this discussion.  I don't think the comment
> warrented an overly
> deep analysis.  I am not at liberty to disclose the detailed
> demographics of
> our Customers, but the trend is clear (for me, as the
> maintainer within my
> company) that webhosting companies do indeed consume the
> lions share of IP
> address space while operating a relatively small percentage
> of the physical
> devices that we support.
>
> -Clay
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-vwp at arin.net [mailto:owner-vwp at arin.net]On Behalf Of Bill
> Darte
> Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 7:00 AM
> To: 'Clayton Lambert'; vwp at arin.net
> Subject: RE: Been quiet in here...
>
>
> Not to be contentious, but "a small percentage of our customer use the
> overwhelmingly largeset amount of address space" IS very vague.
> I'm all for conservation, I am willing to support policy that enforces
> conservation when need exists, but I am unwilling to support
> policy that is
> based upon these anecdotal, rather than factual references.
> Bill Darte
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Clayton Lambert [mailto:Clay at exodus.net]
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 4:48 PM
> > To: 'Bill Darte'; 'Alec H. Peterson'; vwp at arin.net
> > Subject: RE: Been quiet in here...
> >
> >
> > it is more than a vague notion.  It is a fact...
> >
> > A small percentage of our Customers use the overwhelmingly
> > largest amounts
> > of address space.
> >
> > This policy should not scare web-hosters.  I think that
> > webhosters should
> > make the attempt to be efficient with their use of address
> > space.  We have
> > hammered our name-based hosting servers and we have not seen
> > an appreciable
> > drop in performance compared to the same servers running IP
> > based hosting.
> > If there is a valid reason for a service provider (any
> > service, not just
> > webhosters) to use IP-based hosting, I think it is not
> > unreasonable to have
> > them provide documentation to support that requirement.
> > Accountability
> > isn't something that is necessarily bad.
> >
> > -Clayton Lambert
> > Exodus Communications
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-vwp at arin.net [mailto:owner-vwp at arin.net]On
> Behalf Of Bill
> > Darte
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 1:24 PM
> > To: 'Alec H. Peterson'; vwp at arin.net
> > Subject: RE: Been quiet in here...
> >
> >
> > I have seen no evidence that there is a problem. No scope, no
> > magnitude, no
> > trends, just a vague notion that it is wasting "lots" of addresses.
> > Bill Darte
> > AC
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Alec H. Peterson [mailto:ahp at hilander.com]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 2:54 PM
> > > To: vwp at arin.net
> > > Subject: Been quiet in here...
> > >
> > >
> > > Are there any more thoughts on what we should do with the
> > > so-called virtual
> > > hosting policy?
> > >
> > > Alec
> > >
> > > --
> > > Alec H. Peterson - ahp at hilander.com
> > > Staff Scientist
> > > CenterGate Research Group - http://www.centergate.com
> > > "Technology so advanced, even _we_ don't understand it!"
> > >
> >
> >
>
>