From billd at cait.wustl.edu Mon Apr 16 15:22:31 2001 From: billd at cait.wustl.edu (Bill Darte) Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 14:22:31 -0500 Subject: Virtual WebHosting Policy Rewording Message-ID: After consideration of suggested changes in the wording associated with the the Virtual Web Hosting policy voiced on mail lists and the ARIN meetings of April, the Advisory Council suggests the following slight change in wording. Note that the AC considers this a policy to be recomemended to the Board of Trustees after this 'final call' for input. It requires ISPs to provide technical justification for IP address space allocations to be used for IP-based web hosting and ARIN Registration Services staff to collect this information. Over time this information will be aggregated in a fashion which elimates specific customer/vendor references, and used by ARIN and members to review this policy for change. Bill Darte Advisory Council ARIN subscription holders who provide virtual webhosting services to their customers, and organizations that request new address space from ARIN, are strongly encouraged to employ a name-based system of webhosting -- a current best practice method which enables multiple domains to be hosted by a single IP address. In contrast, an IP-based system requires a distinct IP number for each domain, which, where not required for the technical basis of services offered, is an inefficient use of addresses. Widespread use of the name-based system will significantly reduce the number of addresses needed for webhosting and will help to conserve the limited supply of available address space. POLICY When an ISP submits a request for IP address space to be used for IP-based webhosting, they will supply technical justification for this practice. ARIN will collect this data for review of the policy in light of operational experience. From stephen at hnt.com Wed Apr 18 10:22:23 2001 From: stephen at hnt.com (Stephen Elliott) Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 10:22:23 -0400 Subject: Virtual WebHosting Policy Rewording References: Message-ID: <3ADDA31F.E0C3C89C@hnt.com> I am glad to see that there is some movement on this. I agree with the wording of this, but I would like to see something else; guidelines for proper implementation. One of the big problems with changes like this is that in the past ARIN has kicked out the broad strokes of the policy, but individual ISP's then had to craft policies around the framework provided by ARIN. This is ok in most circumstances, the ISP's for the most part produce policies that are inline with ARIN and everyone is happy. Yet some ISP's take tend to take it upon themselves to go the extra mile and prohibit practices that are completely inline with the ARIN policies, and then blame ARIN for this, saying it is not them, it is ARIN. What I would suggest is a document that outlines what this really means and how policies should be written at ISP's and others responsible for distributing IP's. I will gladly volunteer to help out with a draft that can be read by the group and modify it based on feedback. It is my hope that we as a group can come up with a policy that is used industry wide and applied equally... well I can hope can't I! -Stephen Bill Darte wrote: > > After consideration of suggested changes in the wording associated with the > the Virtual Web Hosting policy voiced on mail lists and the ARIN meetings of > April, the Advisory Council suggests the following slight change in wording. > > Note that the AC considers this a policy to be recomemended to the Board of > Trustees after this 'final call' for input. It requires ISPs to provide > technical justification for IP address space allocations to be used for > IP-based web hosting and ARIN Registration Services staff to collect this > information. Over time this information will be aggregated in a fashion > which elimates specific customer/vendor references, and used by ARIN and > members to review this policy for change. > > Bill Darte > Advisory Council > > > ARIN subscription holders who provide virtual webhosting services to their > customers, and organizations that request new address space from ARIN, are > strongly encouraged to employ a name-based system of webhosting -- a > current best practice method which enables multiple domains to be hosted > by a single IP address. In contrast, an IP-based system requires a > distinct IP number for each domain, which, where not required for the > technical basis of services offered, is an inefficient use of addresses. > Widespread use of the name-based system will significantly reduce the > number of addresses needed for webhosting and will help to conserve the > limited supply of available address space. > > POLICY > > When an ISP submits a request for IP address space to be used for IP-based > webhosting, they will supply technical justification for this practice. ARIN > will collect this data for review of the policy in light of operational > experience. -- Stephen Elliott Harrison & Troxell Systems & Networking Manager 2 Faneuil Hall Marketplace Systems & Networking Group Boston, Ma 02109 (617)227-0494 Phone (617)720-3918 Fax From billd at cait.wustl.edu Wed Apr 18 11:14:20 2001 From: billd at cait.wustl.edu (Bill Darte) Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 10:14:20 -0500 Subject: Supporting ISPs with WebHosting Policy Message-ID: Stephen, This is definately a Community Learning and Education Workgroup (CLEW) initiative and I am happy to have you contribute a draft document or outline of such a document to the CLEW mail list. I and others on that list will respond and perhaps we can knock out a substantive document in the near future... Thanks again and I look forward to your draft. Bill Darte AC and CLEW Chair > -----Original Message----- > From: Stephen Elliott [mailto:stephen at hnt.com] > Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 9:22 AM > To: Bill Darte > Cc: ARIN Public Policy (E-mail); ARIN Virtual Web Hosting (E-mail) > Subject: Re: Virtual WebHosting Policy Rewording > > > I am glad to see that there is some movement on this. I > agree with the > wording of this, but I would like to see something else; > guidelines for > proper implementation. One of the big problems with changes like this > is that in the past ARIN has kicked out the broad strokes of > the policy, > but individual ISP's then had to craft policies around the framework > provided by ARIN. This is ok in most circumstances, the ISP's for the > most part produce policies that are inline with ARIN and everyone is > happy. Yet some ISP's take tend to take it upon themselves to go the > extra mile and prohibit practices that are completely inline with the > ARIN policies, and then blame ARIN for this, saying it is not them, it > is ARIN. What I would suggest is a document that outlines what this > really means and how policies should be written at ISP's and others > responsible for distributing IP's. I will gladly volunteer > to help out > with a draft that can be read by the group and modify it based on > feedback. It is my hope that we as a group can come up with a policy > that is used industry wide and applied equally... well I can > hope can't > I! > -Stephen > > Bill Darte wrote: > > > > After consideration of suggested changes in the wording > associated with the > > the Virtual Web Hosting policy voiced on mail lists and the > ARIN meetings of > > April, the Advisory Council suggests the following slight > change in wording. > > > > Note that the AC considers this a policy to be recomemended > to the Board of > > Trustees after this 'final call' for input. It requires > ISPs to provide > > technical justification for IP address space allocations to > be used for > > IP-based web hosting and ARIN Registration Services staff > to collect this > > information. Over time this information will be aggregated > in a fashion > > which elimates specific customer/vendor references, and > used by ARIN and > > members to review this policy for change. > > > > Bill Darte > > Advisory Council > > > > > > ARIN subscription holders who provide virtual webhosting > services to their > > customers, and organizations that request new address space > from ARIN, are > > strongly encouraged to employ a name-based system of webhosting -- a > > current best practice method which enables multiple domains > to be hosted > > by a single IP address. In contrast, an IP-based system requires a > > distinct IP number for each domain, which, where not > required for the > > technical basis of services offered, is an inefficient use > of addresses. > > Widespread use of the name-based system will significantly > reduce the > > number of addresses needed for webhosting and will help to > conserve the > > limited supply of available address space. > > > > POLICY > > > > When an ISP submits a request for IP address space to be > used for IP-based > > webhosting, they will supply technical justification for > this practice. ARIN > > will collect this data for review of the policy in light of > operational > > experience. > > -- > Stephen Elliott Harrison & Troxell > Systems & Networking Manager 2 Faneuil Hall Marketplace > Systems & Networking Group Boston, Ma 02109 > (617)227-0494 Phone (617)720-3918 Fax > From president at prevo.net Wed Apr 18 14:13:23 2001 From: president at prevo.net (L. James Prevo) Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 14:13:23 -0400 Subject: Supporting ISPs with WebHosting Policy References: Message-ID: <000801c0c833$43104180$180101c0@etransfer2> > > ARIN subscription holders who provide virtual webhosting > services to their > > customers, and organizations that request new address space > from ARIN, are > > strongly encouraged to employ a name-based system of webhosting -- a > > current best practice method which enables multiple domains > to be hosted > > by a single IP address. In contrast, an IP-based system requires a > > distinct IP number for each domain, which, where not > required for the > > technical basis of services offered, is an inefficient use > of addresses. > > Widespread use of the name-based system will significantly > reduce the > > number of addresses needed for webhosting and will help to > conserve the > > limited supply of available address space. > > > > POLICY > > > > When an ISP submits a request for IP address space to be > used for IP-based > > webhosting, they will supply technical justification for > this practice. ARIN > > will collect this data for review of the policy in light of > operational > > experience. I have a server that has SSL (Secure Socket Layers) For a web site to have its own SSL the server requires the domain name or site to have its own IP #, which is how SSL works. What about sites that have SSL and need their own IP #? I am a budget web host, a majority of my sites are all named based. However I have sites that have thier own SSL and need their own IP #. How is ARIN going to handle this? Is it being addressed? L. James Prevo President The Prevo Network http://www.prevo.net "The Place Where We Unlock Your Doors to the Net!" > -- > Stephen Elliott Harrison & Troxell > Systems & Networking Manager 2 Faneuil Hall Marketplace > Systems & Networking Group Boston, Ma 02109 > (617)227-0494 Phone (617)720-3918 Fax > NetZero Platinum No Banner Ads and Unlimited Access Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month! http://www.netzero.net From billd at cait.wustl.edu Wed Apr 18 14:50:38 2001 From: billd at cait.wustl.edu (Bill Darte) Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 13:50:38 -0500 Subject: WebHosting Policy- SSL Message-ID: That would be the technical justification you would provide to ARIN Bill Darte > -----Original Message----- > From: L. James Prevo [mailto:president at prevo.net] > Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 1:13 PM > To: Bill Darte; ARIN Public Policy (E-mail); ARIN Virtual Web Hosting > (E-mail); ARIN Clew (E-mail) > Subject: Re: Supporting ISPs with WebHosting Policy > > > > > > ARIN subscription holders who provide virtual webhosting > > services to their > > > customers, and organizations that request new address space > > from ARIN, are > > > strongly encouraged to employ a name-based system of > webhosting -- a > > > current best practice method which enables multiple domains > > to be hosted > > > by a single IP address. In contrast, an IP-based system requires a > > > distinct IP number for each domain, which, where not > > required for the > > > technical basis of services offered, is an inefficient use > > of addresses. > > > Widespread use of the name-based system will significantly > > reduce the > > > number of addresses needed for webhosting and will help to > > conserve the > > > limited supply of available address space. > > > > > > POLICY > > > > > > When an ISP submits a request for IP address space to be > > used for IP-based > > > webhosting, they will supply technical justification for > > this practice. ARIN > > > will collect this data for review of the policy in light of > > operational > > > experience. > > I have a server that has SSL (Secure Socket Layers) For a web site > to have its own SSL the server requires the domain name or site > to have its own IP #, which is how SSL works. What about sites > that have SSL and need their own IP #? > > I am a budget web host, a majority of my sites are all named > based. However I have sites that have thier own SSL and need > their own IP #. > > How is ARIN going to handle this? > > Is it being addressed? > > L. James Prevo > President > The Prevo Network > http://www.prevo.net > "The Place Where We Unlock Your Doors to the Net!" > > > > -- > > Stephen Elliott Harrison & Troxell > > Systems & Networking Manager 2 Faneuil Hall Marketplace > > Systems & Networking Group Boston, Ma 02109 > > (617)227-0494 Phone (617)720-3918 Fax > > > > > > NetZero Platinum > No Banner Ads and Unlimited Access > Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month! > http://www.netzero.net > From neil-list at hostmysite.com Wed Apr 18 14:49:37 2001 From: neil-list at hostmysite.com (Neil H.) Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 14:49:37 -0400 Subject: WebHosting Policy- SSL References: Message-ID: <0a3b01c0c838$51de97c0$4500a8c0@p3600> For new accounts setup that use FrontPage extensions how would a user pre publish their site before the domain name resolved? Thanks, Neil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Darte" To: "'L. James Prevo'" ; "ARIN Virtual Web Hosting (E-mail)" Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 2:50 PM Subject: WebHosting Policy- SSL > That would be the technical justification you would provide to ARIN > > Bill Darte > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: L. James Prevo [mailto:president at prevo.net] > > Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 1:13 PM > > To: Bill Darte; ARIN Public Policy (E-mail); ARIN Virtual Web Hosting > > (E-mail); ARIN Clew (E-mail) > > Subject: Re: Supporting ISPs with WebHosting Policy > > > > > > > > > > ARIN subscription holders who provide virtual webhosting > > > services to their > > > > customers, and organizations that request new address space > > > from ARIN, are > > > > strongly encouraged to employ a name-based system of > > webhosting -- a > > > > current best practice method which enables multiple domains > > > to be hosted > > > > by a single IP address. In contrast, an IP-based system requires a > > > > distinct IP number for each domain, which, where not > > > required for the > > > > technical basis of services offered, is an inefficient use > > > of addresses. > > > > Widespread use of the name-based system will significantly > > > reduce the > > > > number of addresses needed for webhosting and will help to > > > conserve the > > > > limited supply of available address space. > > > > > > > > POLICY > > > > > > > > When an ISP submits a request for IP address space to be > > > used for IP-based > > > > webhosting, they will supply technical justification for > > > this practice. ARIN > > > > will collect this data for review of the policy in light of > > > operational > > > > experience. > > > > I have a server that has SSL (Secure Socket Layers) For a web site > > to have its own SSL the server requires the domain name or site > > to have its own IP #, which is how SSL works. What about sites > > that have SSL and need their own IP #? > > > > I am a budget web host, a majority of my sites are all named > > based. However I have sites that have thier own SSL and need > > their own IP #. > > > > How is ARIN going to handle this? > > > > Is it being addressed? > > > > L. James Prevo > > President > > The Prevo Network > > http://www.prevo.net > > "The Place Where We Unlock Your Doors to the Net!" > > > > > > > -- > > > Stephen Elliott Harrison & Troxell > > > Systems & Networking Manager 2 Faneuil Hall Marketplace > > > Systems & Networking Group Boston, Ma 02109 > > > (617)227-0494 Phone (617)720-3918 Fax > > > > > > > > > > > NetZero Platinum > > No Banner Ads and Unlimited Access > > Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month! > > http://www.netzero.net > > > From hershey at easystreet.com Wed Apr 18 14:57:02 2001 From: hershey at easystreet.com (Chris Hershey) Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 11:57:02 -0700 Subject: WebHosting Policy- SSL In-Reply-To: <0a3b01c0c838$51de97c0$4500a8c0@p3600> Message-ID: One way is to use alternate hostnames in our a different domain (such as the domain of the hosting provider, i.e. username.domain.com). This also allows customers to access the site before it moves, and to access in the event there are problems with their domain, such as it being placed 'On Hold' by their registrar. -- -Chris Hershey hershey at easystreet.com > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-vwp at arin.net [mailto:owner-vwp at arin.net]On Behalf Of Neil H. > Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 11:50 AM > To: ARIN Virtual Web Hosting (E-mail) > Subject: Re: WebHosting Policy- SSL > > > For new accounts setup that use FrontPage extensions how would a user pre > publish their site before the domain name resolved? > > Thanks, > > Neil > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Darte" > To: "'L. James Prevo'" ; "ARIN Virtual Web Hosting > (E-mail)" > Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 2:50 PM > Subject: WebHosting Policy- SSL > > > > That would be the technical justification you would provide to ARIN > > > > Bill Darte > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: L. James Prevo [mailto:president at prevo.net] > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 1:13 PM > > > To: Bill Darte; ARIN Public Policy (E-mail); ARIN Virtual Web Hosting > > > (E-mail); ARIN Clew (E-mail) > > > Subject: Re: Supporting ISPs with WebHosting Policy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ARIN subscription holders who provide virtual webhosting > > > > services to their > > > > > customers, and organizations that request new address space > > > > from ARIN, are > > > > > strongly encouraged to employ a name-based system of > > > webhosting -- a > > > > > current best practice method which enables multiple domains > > > > to be hosted > > > > > by a single IP address. In contrast, an IP-based system requires a > > > > > distinct IP number for each domain, which, where not > > > > required for the > > > > > technical basis of services offered, is an inefficient use > > > > of addresses. > > > > > Widespread use of the name-based system will significantly > > > > reduce the > > > > > number of addresses needed for webhosting and will help to > > > > conserve the > > > > > limited supply of available address space. > > > > > > > > > > POLICY > > > > > > > > > > When an ISP submits a request for IP address space to be > > > > used for IP-based > > > > > webhosting, they will supply technical justification for > > > > this practice. ARIN > > > > > will collect this data for review of the policy in light of > > > > operational > > > > > experience. > > > > > > I have a server that has SSL (Secure Socket Layers) For a web site > > > to have its own SSL the server requires the domain name or site > > > to have its own IP #, which is how SSL works. What about sites > > > that have SSL and need their own IP #? > > > > > > I am a budget web host, a majority of my sites are all named > > > based. However I have sites that have thier own SSL and need > > > their own IP #. > > > > > > How is ARIN going to handle this? > > > > > > Is it being addressed? > > > > > > L. James Prevo > > > President > > > The Prevo Network > > > http://www.prevo.net > > > "The Place Where We Unlock Your Doors to the Net!" > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Stephen Elliott Harrison & Troxell > > > > Systems & Networking Manager 2 Faneuil Hall Marketplace > > > > Systems & Networking Group Boston, Ma 02109 > > > > (617)227-0494 Phone (617)720-3918 Fax > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NetZero Platinum > > > No Banner Ads and Unlimited Access > > > Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month! > > > http://www.netzero.net > > > > > > From president at prevo.net Wed Apr 18 15:04:29 2001 From: president at prevo.net (L. James Prevo) Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 15:04:29 -0400 Subject: WebHosting Policy- SSL References: <0a3b01c0c838$51de97c0$4500a8c0@p3600> Message-ID: <006f01c0c83a$6b202120$180101c0@etransfer2> I don't think a IP # is needed for this, we don't give IP #'s so a user can "publish" before thier domain is active, they just have to wait until thier domain resolves to the server. We are sorry they have to wait. I tell the customer, send your request to change the name server info on your domain name two days before signing up with me, the host. This way they don't pay two days for no service. Issuing a IP # for temporary purposes I feel is not nessecary. But for something like SSL, which you always need a IP # is nessecary. L. James Prevo President The Prevo Network http://www.prevo.net "The Place Where We Unlock Your Doors to the Net!" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Neil H." To: "ARIN Virtual Web Hosting (E-mail)" Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 2:49 PM Subject: Re: WebHosting Policy- SSL For new accounts setup that use FrontPage extensions how would a user pre publish their site before the domain name resolved? Thanks, Neil NetZero Platinum No Banner Ads and Unlimited Access Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month! http://www.netzero.net From neil-list at hostmysite.com Wed Apr 18 15:07:03 2001 From: neil-list at hostmysite.com (Neil H.) Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 15:07:03 -0400 Subject: WebHosting Policy- SSL References: Message-ID: <0a8101c0c83a$ccdd56d0$4500a8c0@p3600> Do you guys realize the amount of account required to do that? It would make my zone huge and then to go back and delete it. Also my resellers wouldn't like that. This would be a complete nightmare. Just get IPv6 working and forget about all this. Neil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Hershey" To: "ARIN Virtual Web Hosting (E-mail)" Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 2:57 PM Subject: RE: WebHosting Policy- SSL > > One way is to use alternate hostnames in our a different domain (such as the > domain of the hosting provider, i.e. username.domain.com). This also allows > customers to access the site before it moves, and to access in the event > there are problems with their domain, such as it being placed 'On Hold' by > their registrar. > -- > > -Chris Hershey > hershey at easystreet.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-vwp at arin.net [mailto:owner-vwp at arin.net]On Behalf Of Neil H. > > Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 11:50 AM > > To: ARIN Virtual Web Hosting (E-mail) > > Subject: Re: WebHosting Policy- SSL > > > > > > For new accounts setup that use FrontPage extensions how would a user pre > > publish their site before the domain name resolved? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Neil > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Bill Darte" > > To: "'L. James Prevo'" ; "ARIN Virtual Web Hosting > > (E-mail)" > > Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 2:50 PM > > Subject: WebHosting Policy- SSL > > > > > > > That would be the technical justification you would provide to ARIN > > > > > > Bill Darte > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: L. James Prevo [mailto:president at prevo.net] > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 1:13 PM > > > > To: Bill Darte; ARIN Public Policy (E-mail); ARIN Virtual Web Hosting > > > > (E-mail); ARIN Clew (E-mail) > > > > Subject: Re: Supporting ISPs with WebHosting Policy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ARIN subscription holders who provide virtual webhosting > > > > > services to their > > > > > > customers, and organizations that request new address space > > > > > from ARIN, are > > > > > > strongly encouraged to employ a name-based system of > > > > webhosting -- a > > > > > > current best practice method which enables multiple domains > > > > > to be hosted > > > > > > by a single IP address. In contrast, an IP-based system requires a > > > > > > distinct IP number for each domain, which, where not > > > > > required for the > > > > > > technical basis of services offered, is an inefficient use > > > > > of addresses. > > > > > > Widespread use of the name-based system will significantly > > > > > reduce the > > > > > > number of addresses needed for webhosting and will help to > > > > > conserve the > > > > > > limited supply of available address space. > > > > > > > > > > > > POLICY > > > > > > > > > > > > When an ISP submits a request for IP address space to be > > > > > used for IP-based > > > > > > webhosting, they will supply technical justification for > > > > > this practice. ARIN > > > > > > will collect this data for review of the policy in light of > > > > > operational > > > > > > experience. > > > > > > > > I have a server that has SSL (Secure Socket Layers) For a web site > > > > to have its own SSL the server requires the domain name or site > > > > to have its own IP #, which is how SSL works. What about sites > > > > that have SSL and need their own IP #? > > > > > > > > I am a budget web host, a majority of my sites are all named > > > > based. However I have sites that have thier own SSL and need > > > > their own IP #. > > > > > > > > How is ARIN going to handle this? > > > > > > > > Is it being addressed? > > > > > > > > L. James Prevo > > > > President > > > > The Prevo Network > > > > http://www.prevo.net > > > > "The Place Where We Unlock Your Doors to the Net!" > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Stephen Elliott Harrison & Troxell > > > > > Systems & Networking Manager 2 Faneuil Hall Marketplace > > > > > Systems & Networking Group Boston, Ma 02109 > > > > > (617)227-0494 Phone (617)720-3918 Fax > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NetZero Platinum > > > > No Banner Ads and Unlimited Access > > > > Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month! > > > > http://www.netzero.net > > > > > > > > > > > From simon at optinet.com Wed Apr 18 15:23:52 2001 From: simon at optinet.com (Simon) Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 15:23:52 -0400 Subject: WebHosting Policy- SSL In-Reply-To: <0a8101c0c83a$ccdd56d0$4500a8c0@p3600> Message-ID: <200104181918.PAA09775@rs2.arin.net> Actually, our system is automated and removes the temp ServerAlias after 15 days. In DNS, we use a wild card & single IP for this, so it doesn't require any changes whatsoever after initial setup. Just because you can't implement it, doesn't mean IPs have to be wasted. I can say I need 100 ips to implement what others can with 5, does that mean I'm supposed to get them? accessing a website before its domain propagates and is pointing to right DNS isn't a big issue and can be done rather easily. IPv6 is years away :-( -Simon On Wed, 18 Apr 2001 15:07:03 -0400, Neil H. wrote: >Do you guys realize the amount of account required to do that? It would >make my zone huge and then to go back and delete it. Also my resellers >wouldn't like that. This would be a complete nightmare. Just get IPv6 >working and forget about all this. > >Neil > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Chris Hershey" >To: "ARIN Virtual Web Hosting (E-mail)" >Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 2:57 PM >Subject: RE: WebHosting Policy- SSL > > >> >> One way is to use alternate hostnames in our a different domain (such as >the >> domain of the hosting provider, i.e. username.domain.com). This also >allows >> customers to access the site before it moves, and to access in the event >> there are problems with their domain, such as it being placed 'On Hold' by >> their registrar. >> -- >> >> -Chris Hershey >> hershey at easystreet.com >> >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: owner-vwp at arin.net [mailto:owner-vwp at arin.net]On Behalf Of Neil H. >> > Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 11:50 AM >> > To: ARIN Virtual Web Hosting (E-mail) >> > Subject: Re: WebHosting Policy- SSL >> > >> > >> > For new accounts setup that use FrontPage extensions how would a user >pre >> > publish their site before the domain name resolved? >> > >> > Thanks, >> > >> > Neil >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Bill Darte" >> > To: "'L. James Prevo'" ; "ARIN Virtual Web Hosting >> > (E-mail)" >> > Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 2:50 PM >> > Subject: WebHosting Policy- SSL >> > >> > >> > > That would be the technical justification you would provide to ARIN >> > > >> > > Bill Darte >> > > >> > > >> > > > -----Original Message----- >> > > > From: L. James Prevo [mailto:president at prevo.net] >> > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 1:13 PM >> > > > To: Bill Darte; ARIN Public Policy (E-mail); ARIN Virtual Web >Hosting >> > > > (E-mail); ARIN Clew (E-mail) >> > > > Subject: Re: Supporting ISPs with WebHosting Policy >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > ARIN subscription holders who provide virtual webhosting >> > > > > services to their >> > > > > > customers, and organizations that request new address space >> > > > > from ARIN, are >> > > > > > strongly encouraged to employ a name-based system of >> > > > webhosting -- a >> > > > > > current best practice method which enables multiple domains >> > > > > to be hosted >> > > > > > by a single IP address. In contrast, an IP-based system requires >a >> > > > > > distinct IP number for each domain, which, where not >> > > > > required for the >> > > > > > technical basis of services offered, is an inefficient use >> > > > > of addresses. >> > > > > > Widespread use of the name-based system will significantly >> > > > > reduce the >> > > > > > number of addresses needed for webhosting and will help to >> > > > > conserve the >> > > > > > limited supply of available address space. >> > > > > > >> > > > > > POLICY >> > > > > > >> > > > > > When an ISP submits a request for IP address space to be >> > > > > used for IP-based >> > > > > > webhosting, they will supply technical justification for >> > > > > this practice. ARIN >> > > > > > will collect this data for review of the policy in light of >> > > > > operational >> > > > > > experience. >> > > > >> > > > I have a server that has SSL (Secure Socket Layers) For a web site >> > > > to have its own SSL the server requires the domain name or site >> > > > to have its own IP #, which is how SSL works. What about sites >> > > > that have SSL and need their own IP #? >> > > > >> > > > I am a budget web host, a majority of my sites are all named >> > > > based. However I have sites that have thier own SSL and need >> > > > their own IP #. >> > > > >> > > > How is ARIN going to handle this? >> > > > >> > > > Is it being addressed? >> > > > >> > > > L. James Prevo >> > > > President >> > > > The Prevo Network >> > > > http://www.prevo.net >> > > > "The Place Where We Unlock Your Doors to the Net!" >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > -- >> > > > > Stephen Elliott Harrison & Troxell >> > > > > Systems & Networking Manager 2 Faneuil Hall Marketplace >> > > > > Systems & Networking Group Boston, Ma 02109 >> > > > > (617)227-0494 Phone (617)720-3918 Fax >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > NetZero Platinum >> > > > No Banner Ads and Unlimited Access >> > > > Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month! >> > > > http://www.netzero.net >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >> > > From hershey at easystreet.com Wed Apr 18 15:21:46 2001 From: hershey at easystreet.com (Chris Hershey) Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 12:21:46 -0700 Subject: WebHosting Policy- SSL In-Reply-To: <0a8101c0c83a$ccdd56d0$4500a8c0@p3600> Message-ID: Ya, we have over 9000 records in our main zone file. It's all databased managed though, so it's not a problem. Really, I just wanted to point out that solutions exist, sometimes you just have to be creative and make sure you've got scalable management systems. And, if you're really creative, sometimes you get added benefits. We can't stick our heads in the sand and wait for IPV6. Conservation efforts should be taken seriously, even if we had IPV6 today. -- -Chris Hershey hershey at easystreet.com > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-vwp at arin.net [mailto:owner-vwp at arin.net]On Behalf Of Neil H. > Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 12:07 PM > To: ARIN Virtual Web Hosting (E-mail) > Subject: Re: WebHosting Policy- SSL > > > Do you guys realize the amount of account required to do that? It would > make my zone huge and then to go back and delete it. Also my resellers > wouldn't like that. This would be a complete nightmare. Just get IPv6 > working and forget about all this. > > Neil > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris Hershey" > To: "ARIN Virtual Web Hosting (E-mail)" > Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 2:57 PM > Subject: RE: WebHosting Policy- SSL > > > > > > One way is to use alternate hostnames in our a different domain (such as > the > > domain of the hosting provider, i.e. username.domain.com). This also > allows > > customers to access the site before it moves, and to access in the event > > there are problems with their domain, such as it being placed > 'On Hold' by > > their registrar. > > -- > > > > -Chris Hershey > > hershey at easystreet.com > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: owner-vwp at arin.net [mailto:owner-vwp at arin.net]On Behalf > Of Neil H. > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 11:50 AM > > > To: ARIN Virtual Web Hosting (E-mail) > > > Subject: Re: WebHosting Policy- SSL > > > > > > > > > For new accounts setup that use FrontPage extensions how would a user > pre > > > publish their site before the domain name resolved? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Neil > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Bill Darte" > > > To: "'L. James Prevo'" ; "ARIN Virtual > Web Hosting > > > (E-mail)" > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 2:50 PM > > > Subject: WebHosting Policy- SSL > > > > > > > > > > That would be the technical justification you would provide to ARIN > > > > > > > > Bill Darte > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: L. James Prevo [mailto:president at prevo.net] > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 1:13 PM > > > > > To: Bill Darte; ARIN Public Policy (E-mail); ARIN Virtual Web > Hosting > > > > > (E-mail); ARIN Clew (E-mail) > > > > > Subject: Re: Supporting ISPs with WebHosting Policy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ARIN subscription holders who provide virtual webhosting > > > > > > services to their > > > > > > > customers, and organizations that request new address space > > > > > > from ARIN, are > > > > > > > strongly encouraged to employ a name-based system of > > > > > webhosting -- a > > > > > > > current best practice method which enables multiple domains > > > > > > to be hosted > > > > > > > by a single IP address. In contrast, an IP-based > system requires > a > > > > > > > distinct IP number for each domain, which, where not > > > > > > required for the > > > > > > > technical basis of services offered, is an inefficient use > > > > > > of addresses. > > > > > > > Widespread use of the name-based system will significantly > > > > > > reduce the > > > > > > > number of addresses needed for webhosting and will help to > > > > > > conserve the > > > > > > > limited supply of available address space. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > POLICY > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When an ISP submits a request for IP address space to be > > > > > > used for IP-based > > > > > > > webhosting, they will supply technical justification for > > > > > > this practice. ARIN > > > > > > > will collect this data for review of the policy in light of > > > > > > operational > > > > > > > experience. > > > > > > > > > > I have a server that has SSL (Secure Socket Layers) For > a web site > > > > > to have its own SSL the server requires the domain name or site > > > > > to have its own IP #, which is how SSL works. What about sites > > > > > that have SSL and need their own IP #? > > > > > > > > > > I am a budget web host, a majority of my sites are all named > > > > > based. However I have sites that have thier own SSL and need > > > > > their own IP #. > > > > > > > > > > How is ARIN going to handle this? > > > > > > > > > > Is it being addressed? > > > > > > > > > > L. James Prevo > > > > > President > > > > > The Prevo Network > > > > > http://www.prevo.net > > > > > "The Place Where We Unlock Your Doors to the Net!" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Stephen Elliott Harrison & Troxell > > > > > > Systems & Networking Manager 2 Faneuil Hall Marketplace > > > > > > Systems & Networking Group Boston, Ma 02109 > > > > > > (617)227-0494 Phone (617)720-3918 Fax > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NetZero Platinum > > > > > No Banner Ads and Unlimited Access > > > > > Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month! > > > > > http://www.netzero.net > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From sigma at pair.com Wed Apr 18 15:45:59 2001 From: sigma at pair.com (sigma at pair.com) Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 15:45:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: WebHosting Policy- SSL (fwd) Message-ID: <20010418194559.21159.qmail@smx.pair.com> Yes Sir, we'll get right on it, Sir :) Kevin >Do you guys realize the amount of account required to do that? It would >make my zone huge and then to go back and delete it. Also my resellers >wouldn't like that. This would be a complete nightmare. Just get IPv6 >working and forget about all this. > >Neil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Hershey" To: "ARIN Virtual Web Hosting (E-mail)" Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 2:57 PM Subject: RE: WebHosting Policy- SSL > > One way is to use alternate hostnames in our a different domain (such as the > domain of the hosting provider, i.e. username.domain.com). This also allows > customers to access the site before it moves, and to access in the event > there are problems with their domain, such as it being placed 'On Hold' by > their registrar. > -- > > -Chris Hershey > hershey at easystreet.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-vwp at arin.net [mailto:owner-vwp at arin.net]On Behalf Of Neil H. > > Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 11:50 AM > > To: ARIN Virtual Web Hosting (E-mail) > > Subject: Re: WebHosting Policy- SSL > > > > > > For new accounts setup that use FrontPage extensions how would a user pre > > publish their site before the domain name resolved? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Neil > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Bill Darte" > > To: "'L. James Prevo'" ; "ARIN Virtual Web Hosting > > (E-mail)" > > Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 2:50 PM > > Subject: WebHosting Policy- SSL > > > > > > > That would be the technical justification you would provide to ARIN > > > > > > Bill Darte > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: L. James Prevo [mailto:president at prevo.net] > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 1:13 PM > > > > To: Bill Darte; ARIN Public Policy (E-mail); ARIN Virtual Web Hosting > > > > (E-mail); ARIN Clew (E-mail) > > > > Subject: Re: Supporting ISPs with WebHosting Policy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ARIN subscription holders who provide virtual webhosting > > > > > services to their > > > > > > customers, and organizations that request new address space > > > > > from ARIN, are > > > > > > strongly encouraged to employ a name-based system of > > > > webhosting -- a > > > > > > current best practice method which enables multiple domains > > > > > to be hosted > > > > > > by a single IP address. In contrast, an IP-based system requires a > > > > > > distinct IP number for each domain, which, where not > > > > > required for the > > > > > > technical basis of services offered, is an inefficient use > > > > > of addresses. > > > > > > Widespread use of the name-based system will significantly > > > > > reduce the > > > > > > number of addresses needed for webhosting and will help to > > > > > conserve the > > > > > > limited supply of available address space. > > > > > > > > > > > > POLICY > > > > > > > > > > > > When an ISP submits a request for IP address space to be > > > > > used for IP-based > > > > > > webhosting, they will supply technical justification for > > > > > this practice. ARIN > > > > > > will collect this data for review of the policy in light of > > > > > operational > > > > > > experience. > > > > > > > > I have a server that has SSL (Secure Socket Layers) For a web site > > > > to have its own SSL the server requires the domain name or site > > > > to have its own IP #, which is how SSL works. What about sites > > > > that have SSL and need their own IP #? > > > > > > > > I am a budget web host, a majority of my sites are all named > > > > based. However I have sites that have thier own SSL and need > > > > their own IP #. > > > > > > > > How is ARIN going to handle this? > > > > > > > > Is it being addressed? > > > > > > > > L. James Prevo > > > > President > > > > The Prevo Network > > > > http://www.prevo.net > > > > "The Place Where We Unlock Your Doors to the Net!" > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Stephen Elliott Harrison & Troxell > > > > > Systems & Networking Manager 2 Faneuil Hall Marketplace > > > > > Systems & Networking Group Boston, Ma 02109 > > > > > (617)227-0494 Phone (617)720-3918 Fax > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NetZero Platinum > > > > No Banner Ads and Unlimited Access > > > > Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month! > > > > http://www.netzero.net > > > > > > > > > > > ----- End of forwarded message from Neil H. ----- From joe at decosta.org Thu Apr 26 21:09:21 2001 From: joe at decosta.org (Joe DeCosta) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 18:09:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Away Message-ID: I've been gone away from my e-mail and that e-mail was corporate have i missed anything in the past 2 weeks? Joe ______________________ Joe DeCosta joe at decosta.org ~Off to see the wonderful wizard of Oz!~ ~because of the wonderful things he does!~ From joe at decosta.org Thu Apr 26 21:14:28 2001 From: joe at decosta.org (Joe DeCosta) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 18:14:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: WebHosting Policy- SSL (fwd) Message-ID: I'm curious if you really understand the implications of "just get IPv6 working and forget about all this really are. EVERY router in the world, and ever workstation MUST be either upgraded or patched to work with both IPv4 and IPv6, and until they are all patched we can't begin to move over to IP6. IP6 is too far away because of what will have to be done with every router etc......workstations and end users aren't going to be that hard, because it's either replace some files in the system folder (mac), update some DLL's (windows), or replace some libraries and madify the kernel (*nix), the client side is the easiet to convert, get all the routers done and we can do it, but until then, we have to just deal with it........ =================== Yes Sir, we'll get right on it, Sir :) Kevin >Do you guys realize the amount of account required to do that? It would >make my zone huge and then to go back and delete it. Also my resellers >wouldn't like that. This would be a complete nightmare. Just get IPv6 >working and forget about all this. > >Neil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Hershey" To: "ARIN Virtual Web Hosting (E-mail)" Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 2:57 PM Subject: RE: WebHosting Policy- SSL > > One way is to use alternate hostnames in our a different domain (such as the > domain of the hosting provider, i.e. username.domain.com). This also allows > customers to access the site before it moves, and to access in the event > there are problems with their domain, such as it being placed 'On Hold' by > their registrar. > -- > > -Chris Hershey > hershey at easystreet.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-vwp at arin.net [mailto:owner-vwp at arin.net]On Behalf Of Neil H. > > Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 11:50 AM > > To: ARIN Virtual Web Hosting (E-mail) > > Subject: Re: WebHosting Policy- SSL > > > > > > For new accounts setup that use FrontPage extensions how would a user pre > > publish their site before the domain name resolved? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Neil > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Bill Darte" > > To: "'L. James Prevo'" ; "ARIN Virtual Web Hosting > > (E-mail)" > > Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 2:50 PM > > Subject: WebHosting Policy- SSL > > > > > > > That would be the technical justification you would provide to ARIN > > > > > > Bill Darte > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: L. James Prevo [mailto:president at prevo.net] > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 1:13 PM > > > > To: Bill Darte; ARIN Public Policy (E-mail); ARIN Virtual Web Hosting > > > > (E-mail); ARIN Clew (E-mail) > > > > Subject: Re: Supporting ISPs with WebHosting Policy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ARIN subscription holders who provide virtual webhosting > > > > > services to their > > > > > > customers, and organizations that request new address space > > > > > from ARIN, are > > > > > > strongly encouraged to employ a name-based system of > > > > webhosting -- a > > > > > > current best practice method which enables multiple domains > > > > > to be hosted > > > > > > by a single IP address. In contrast, an IP-based system requires a > > > > > > distinct IP number for each domain, which, where not > > > > > required for the > > > > > > technical basis of services offered, is an inefficient use > > > > > of addresses. > > > > > > Widespread use of the name-based system will significantly > > > > > reduce the > > > > > > number of addresses needed for webhosting and will help to > > > > > conserve the > > > > > > limited supply of available address space. > > > > > > > > > > > > POLICY > > > > > > > > > > > > When an ISP submits a request for IP address space to be > > > > > used for IP-based > > > > > > webhosting, they will supply technical justification for > > > > > this practice. ARIN > > > > > > will collect this data for review of the policy in light of > > > > > operational > > > > > > experience. > > > > > > > > I have a server that has SSL (Secure Socket Layers) For a web site > > > > to have its own SSL the server requires the domain name or site > > > > to have its own IP #, which is how SSL works. What about sites > > > > that have SSL and need their own IP #? > > > > > > > > I am a budget web host, a majority of my sites are all named > > > > based. However I have sites that have thier own SSL and need > > > > their own IP #. > > > > > > > > How is ARIN going to handle this? > > > > > > > > Is it being addressed? > > > > > > > > L. James Prevo > > > > President > > > > The Prevo Network > > > > http://www.prevo.net > > > > "The Place Where We Unlock Your Doors to the Net!" > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Stephen Elliott Harrison & Troxell > > > > > Systems & Networking Manager 2 Faneuil Hall Marketplace > > > > > Systems & Networking Group Boston, Ma 02109 > > > > > (617)227-0494 Phone (617)720-3918 Fax > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NetZero Platinum > > > > No Banner Ads and Unlimited Access > > > > Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month! > > > > http://www.netzero.net > > > > > > > > > > > ----- End of forwarded message from Neil H. ----- ______________________ Joe DeCosta joe at decosta.org ~Off to see the wonderful wizard of Oz!~ ~because of the wonderful things he does!~ From neil-list at hostmysite.com Fri Apr 27 13:52:38 2001 From: neil-list at hostmysite.com (Neil H.) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 13:52:38 -0400 Subject: WebHosting Policy- SSL (fwd) References: Message-ID: <00f501c0cf42$d96dd960$4500a8c0@p3600> And for that reason alone it should be noted that IPV6 will never be seen. The only way it could possibly work is to start with a new network from scratch. Neil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe DeCosta" To: Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 9:14 PM Subject: Re: WebHosting Policy- SSL (fwd) > I'm curious if you really understand the implications of "just get IPv6 > working and forget about all this really are. EVERY router in the world, > and ever workstation MUST be either upgraded or patched to work with both > IPv4 and IPv6, and until they are all patched we can't begin to move over > to IP6. IP6 is too far away because of what will have to be done with > every router etc......workstations and end users aren't going to be that > hard, because it's either replace some files in the system folder (mac), > update some DLL's (windows), or replace some libraries and madify the > kernel (*nix), the client side is the easiet to convert, get all the > routers done and we can do it, but until then, we have to just deal with > it........ > > =================== > > Yes Sir, we'll get right on it, Sir :) > > > Kevin > > > >Do you guys realize the amount of account required to do that? It would > >make my zone huge and then to go back and delete it. Also my resellers > >wouldn't like that. This would be a complete nightmare. Just get IPv6 > >working and forget about all this. > > > >Neil > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris Hershey" > To: "ARIN Virtual Web Hosting (E-mail)" > Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 2:57 PM > Subject: RE: WebHosting Policy- SSL > > > > > > > One way is to use alternate hostnames in our a different domain (such as > the > > domain of the hosting provider, i.e. username.domain.com). This also > allows > > customers to access the site before it moves, and to access in the event > > there are problems with their domain, such as it being placed 'On Hold' > by > > their registrar. > > -- > > > > -Chris Hershey > > hershey at easystreet.com > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: owner-vwp at arin.net [mailto:owner-vwp at arin.net]On Behalf Of Neil > H. > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 11:50 AM > > > To: ARIN Virtual Web Hosting (E-mail) > > > Subject: Re: WebHosting Policy- SSL > > > > > > > > > For new accounts setup that use FrontPage extensions how would a user > pre > > > publish their site before the domain name resolved? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Neil > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Bill Darte" > > > To: "'L. James Prevo'" ; "ARIN Virtual Web > Hosting > > > (E-mail)" > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 2:50 PM > > > Subject: WebHosting Policy- SSL > > > > > > > > > > That would be the technical justification you would provide to ARIN > > > > > > > > Bill Darte > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: L. James Prevo [mailto:president at prevo.net] > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 1:13 PM > > > > > To: Bill Darte; ARIN Public Policy (E-mail); ARIN Virtual Web > Hosting > > > > > (E-mail); ARIN Clew (E-mail) > > > > > Subject: Re: Supporting ISPs with WebHosting Policy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ARIN subscription holders who provide virtual webhosting > > > > > > services to their > > > > > > > customers, and organizations that request new address space > > > > > > from ARIN, are > > > > > > > strongly encouraged to employ a name-based system of > > > > > webhosting -- a > > > > > > > current best practice method which enables multiple domains > > > > > > to be hosted > > > > > > > by a single IP address. In contrast, an IP-based system > requires > a > > > > > > > distinct IP number for each domain, which, where not > > > > > > required for the > > > > > > > technical basis of services offered, is an inefficient use > > > > > > of addresses. > > > > > > > Widespread use of the name-based system will significantly > > > > > > reduce the > > > > > > > number of addresses needed for webhosting and will help to > > > > > > conserve the > > > > > > > limited supply of available address space. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > POLICY > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When an ISP submits a request for IP address space to be > > > > > > used for IP-based > > > > > > > webhosting, they will supply technical justification for > > > > > > this practice. ARIN > > > > > > > will collect this data for review of the policy in light of > > > > > > operational > > > > > > > experience. > > > > > > > > > > I have a server that has SSL (Secure Socket Layers) For a web site > > > > > to have its own SSL the server requires the domain name or site > > > > > to have its own IP #, which is how SSL works. What about sites > > > > > that have SSL and need their own IP #? > > > > > > > > > > I am a budget web host, a majority of my sites are all named > > > > > based. However I have sites that have thier own SSL and need > > > > > their own IP #. > > > > > > > > > > How is ARIN going to handle this? > > > > > > > > > > Is it being addressed? > > > > > > > > > > L. James Prevo > > > > > President > > > > > The Prevo Network > > > > > http://www.prevo.net > > > > > "The Place Where We Unlock Your Doors to the Net!" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Stephen Elliott Harrison & Troxell > > > > > > Systems & Networking Manager 2 Faneuil Hall Marketplace > > > > > > Systems & Networking Group Boston, Ma 02109 > > > > > > (617)227-0494 Phone (617)720-3918 Fax > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NetZero Platinum > > > > > No Banner Ads and Unlimited Access > > > > > Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month! > > > > > http://www.netzero.net > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- End of forwarded message from Neil H. ----- > > > > > ______________________ > Joe DeCosta > joe at decosta.org > ~Off to see the wonderful wizard of Oz!~ > ~because of the wonderful things he does!~ > > From joe at decosta.org Fri Apr 27 13:58:35 2001 From: joe at decosta.org (Joe DeCosta) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 10:58:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: WebHosting Policy- SSL (fwd) In-Reply-To: <00f501c0cf42$d96dd960$4500a8c0@p3600> Message-ID: thank you! finally someone agrees with me! ______________________ Joe DeCosta joe at decosta.org ~Off to see the wonderful wizard of Oz!~ ~because of the wonderful things he does!~ On Fri, 27 Apr 2001, Neil H. wrote: > And for that reason alone it should be noted that IPV6 will never be seen. > The only way it could possibly work is to start with a new network from > scratch. > > Neil > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joe DeCosta" > To: > Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 9:14 PM > Subject: Re: WebHosting Policy- SSL (fwd) > > > > I'm curious if you really understand the implications of "just get IPv6 > > working and forget about all this really are. EVERY router in the world, > > and ever workstation MUST be either upgraded or patched to work with both > > IPv4 and IPv6, and until they are all patched we can't begin to move over > > to IP6. IP6 is too far away because of what will have to be done with > > every router etc......workstations and end users aren't going to be that > > hard, because it's either replace some files in the system folder (mac), > > update some DLL's (windows), or replace some libraries and madify the > > kernel (*nix), the client side is the easiet to convert, get all the > > routers done and we can do it, but until then, we have to just deal with > > it........ > > > > =================== > > > > Yes Sir, we'll get right on it, Sir :) > > > > > > Kevin > > > > > > >Do you guys realize the amount of account required to do that? It would > > >make my zone huge and then to go back and delete it. Also my resellers > > >wouldn't like that. This would be a complete nightmare. Just get IPv6 > > >working and forget about all this. > > > > > >Neil > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Chris Hershey" > > To: "ARIN Virtual Web Hosting (E-mail)" > > Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 2:57 PM > > Subject: RE: WebHosting Policy- SSL > > > > > > > > > > > > One way is to use alternate hostnames in our a different domain (such as > > the > > > domain of the hosting provider, i.e. username.domain.com). This also > > allows > > > customers to access the site before it moves, and to access in the event > > > there are problems with their domain, such as it being placed 'On Hold' > > by > > > their registrar. > > > -- > > > > > > -Chris Hershey > > > hershey at easystreet.com > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: owner-vwp at arin.net [mailto:owner-vwp at arin.net]On Behalf Of Neil > > H. > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 11:50 AM > > > > To: ARIN Virtual Web Hosting (E-mail) > > > > Subject: Re: WebHosting Policy- SSL > > > > > > > > > > > > For new accounts setup that use FrontPage extensions how would a user > > pre > > > > publish their site before the domain name resolved? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > Neil > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Bill Darte" > > > > To: "'L. James Prevo'" ; "ARIN Virtual Web > > Hosting > > > > (E-mail)" > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 2:50 PM > > > > Subject: WebHosting Policy- SSL > > > > > > > > > > > > > That would be the technical justification you would provide to ARIN > > > > > > > > > > Bill Darte > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: L. James Prevo [mailto:president at prevo.net] > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 1:13 PM > > > > > > To: Bill Darte; ARIN Public Policy (E-mail); ARIN Virtual Web > > Hosting > > > > > > (E-mail); ARIN Clew (E-mail) > > > > > > Subject: Re: Supporting ISPs with WebHosting Policy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ARIN subscription holders who provide virtual webhosting > > > > > > > services to their > > > > > > > > customers, and organizations that request new address space > > > > > > > from ARIN, are > > > > > > > > strongly encouraged to employ a name-based system of > > > > > > webhosting -- a > > > > > > > > current best practice method which enables multiple domains > > > > > > > to be hosted > > > > > > > > by a single IP address. In contrast, an IP-based system > > requires > > a > > > > > > > > distinct IP number for each domain, which, where not > > > > > > > required for the > > > > > > > > technical basis of services offered, is an inefficient use > > > > > > > of addresses. > > > > > > > > Widespread use of the name-based system will significantly > > > > > > > reduce the > > > > > > > > number of addresses needed for webhosting and will help to > > > > > > > conserve the > > > > > > > > limited supply of available address space. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > POLICY > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When an ISP submits a request for IP address space to be > > > > > > > used for IP-based > > > > > > > > webhosting, they will supply technical justification for > > > > > > > this practice. ARIN > > > > > > > > will collect this data for review of the policy in light of > > > > > > > operational > > > > > > > > experience. > > > > > > > > > > > > I have a server that has SSL (Secure Socket Layers) For a web site > > > > > > to have its own SSL the server requires the domain name or site > > > > > > to have its own IP #, which is how SSL works. What about sites > > > > > > that have SSL and need their own IP #? > > > > > > > > > > > > I am a budget web host, a majority of my sites are all named > > > > > > based. However I have sites that have thier own SSL and need > > > > > > their own IP #. > > > > > > > > > > > > How is ARIN going to handle this? > > > > > > > > > > > > Is it being addressed? > > > > > > > > > > > > L. James Prevo > > > > > > President > > > > > > The Prevo Network > > > > > > http://www.prevo.net > > > > > > "The Place Where We Unlock Your Doors to the Net!" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > Stephen Elliott Harrison & Troxell > > > > > > > Systems & Networking Manager 2 Faneuil Hall Marketplace > > > > > > > Systems & Networking Group Boston, Ma 02109 > > > > > > > (617)227-0494 Phone (617)720-3918 Fax > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NetZero Platinum > > > > > > No Banner Ads and Unlimited Access > > > > > > Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month! > > > > > > http://www.netzero.net > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- End of forwarded message from Neil H. ----- > > > > > > > > > > ______________________ > > Joe DeCosta > > joe at decosta.org > > ~Off to see the wonderful wizard of Oz!~ > > ~because of the wonderful things he does!~ > > > > > From Douglas.Cohn at hostcentric.com Fri Apr 27 14:08:27 2001 From: Douglas.Cohn at hostcentric.com (Douglas Cohn) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 14:08:27 -0400 Subject: WebHosting Policy- SSL (fwd) Message-ID: I agree completely we will probably never see IPV6. Last time someone asked I said 10 years but even that is with very high hopes and complete changes in how new systems are setup. If everything we add has compatibilty to just instantly work both ways and we start now 10 years may happen. Doug -----Original Message----- From: Neil H. [mailto:neil-list at hostmysite.com] Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 1:53 PM To: Joe DeCosta; vwp at arin.net Subject: Re: WebHosting Policy- SSL (fwd) And for that reason alone it should be noted that IPV6 will never be seen. The only way it could possibly work is to start with a new network from scratch. Neil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe DeCosta" To: Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 9:14 PM Subject: Re: WebHosting Policy- SSL (fwd) > I'm curious if you really understand the implications of "just get IPv6 > working and forget about all this really are. EVERY router in the world, > and ever workstation MUST be either upgraded or patched to work with both > IPv4 and IPv6, and until they are all patched we can't begin to move over > to IP6. IP6 is too far away because of what will have to be done with > every router etc......workstations and end users aren't going to be that > hard, because it's either replace some files in the system folder (mac), > update some DLL's (windows), or replace some libraries and madify the > kernel (*nix), the client side is the easiet to convert, get all the > routers done and we can do it, but until then, we have to just deal with > it........ > > =================== > > Yes Sir, we'll get right on it, Sir :) > > > Kevin > > > >Do you guys realize the amount of account required to do that? It would > >make my zone huge and then to go back and delete it. Also my resellers > >wouldn't like that. This would be a complete nightmare. Just get IPv6 > >working and forget about all this. > > > >Neil > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris Hershey" > To: "ARIN Virtual Web Hosting (E-mail)" > Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 2:57 PM > Subject: RE: WebHosting Policy- SSL > > > > > > > One way is to use alternate hostnames in our a different domain (such as > the > > domain of the hosting provider, i.e. username.domain.com). This also > allows > > customers to access the site before it moves, and to access in the event > > there are problems with their domain, such as it being placed 'On Hold' > by > > their registrar. > > -- > > > > -Chris Hershey > > hershey at easystreet.com > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: owner-vwp at arin.net [mailto:owner-vwp at arin.net]On Behalf Of Neil > H. > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 11:50 AM > > > To: ARIN Virtual Web Hosting (E-mail) > > > Subject: Re: WebHosting Policy- SSL > > > > > > > > > For new accounts setup that use FrontPage extensions how would a user > pre > > > publish their site before the domain name resolved? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Neil > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Bill Darte" > > > To: "'L. James Prevo'" ; "ARIN Virtual Web > Hosting > > > (E-mail)" > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 2:50 PM > > > Subject: WebHosting Policy- SSL > > > > > > > > > > That would be the technical justification you would provide to ARIN > > > > > > > > Bill Darte > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: L. James Prevo [mailto:president at prevo.net] > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 1:13 PM > > > > > To: Bill Darte; ARIN Public Policy (E-mail); ARIN Virtual Web > Hosting > > > > > (E-mail); ARIN Clew (E-mail) > > > > > Subject: Re: Supporting ISPs with WebHosting Policy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ARIN subscription holders who provide virtual webhosting > > > > > > services to their > > > > > > > customers, and organizations that request new address space > > > > > > from ARIN, are > > > > > > > strongly encouraged to employ a name-based system of > > > > > webhosting -- a > > > > > > > current best practice method which enables multiple domains > > > > > > to be hosted > > > > > > > by a single IP address. In contrast, an IP-based system > requires > a > > > > > > > distinct IP number for each domain, which, where not > > > > > > required for the > > > > > > > technical basis of services offered, is an inefficient use > > > > > > of addresses. > > > > > > > Widespread use of the name-based system will significantly > > > > > > reduce the > > > > > > > number of addresses needed for webhosting and will help to > > > > > > conserve the > > > > > > > limited supply of available address space. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > POLICY > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When an ISP submits a request for IP address space to be > > > > > > used for IP-based > > > > > > > webhosting, they will supply technical justification for > > > > > > this practice. ARIN > > > > > > > will collect this data for review of the policy in light of > > > > > > operational > > > > > > > experience. > > > > > > > > > > I have a server that has SSL (Secure Socket Layers) For a web site > > > > > to have its own SSL the server requires the domain name or site > > > > > to have its own IP #, which is how SSL works. What about sites > > > > > that have SSL and need their own IP #? > > > > > > > > > > I am a budget web host, a majority of my sites are all named > > > > > based. However I have sites that have thier own SSL and need > > > > > their own IP #. > > > > > > > > > > How is ARIN going to handle this? > > > > > > > > > > Is it being addressed? > > > > > > > > > > L. James Prevo > > > > > President > > > > > The Prevo Network > > > > > http://www.prevo.net > > > > > "The Place Where We Unlock Your Doors to the Net!" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Stephen Elliott Harrison & Troxell > > > > > > Systems & Networking Manager 2 Faneuil Hall Marketplace > > > > > > Systems & Networking Group Boston, Ma 02109 > > > > > > (617)227-0494 Phone (617)720-3918 Fax > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NetZero Platinum > > > > > No Banner Ads and Unlimited Access > > > > > Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month! > > > > > http://www.netzero.net > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- End of forwarded message from Neil H. ----- > > > > > ______________________ > Joe DeCosta > joe at decosta.org > ~Off to see the wonderful wizard of Oz!~ > ~because of the wonderful things he does!~ > > From steve at host-all.com Fri Apr 27 13:58:24 2001 From: steve at host-all.com (steve) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 13:58:24 -0400 Subject: WebHosting Policy- SSL (fwd) References: Message-ID: <018301c0cf43$a7e16960$019f72ce@hostall.com> I agree with you too, Joe. However, implementation of name based hosting will not be easy for the small hosters.. especially those running NT farms. The only other concern I really see is accountability.. tier 1 providers like WorldCom will have tons of IP's at their datacenters while small Mom-and-Dad hosters will not be able to get them, thus creating a monoply in IP based solutions over the short run; which, as we all know, leads to long term gains. Steve Conzett ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe DeCosta" To: "Neil H." Cc: Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 1:58 PM Subject: Re: WebHosting Policy- SSL (fwd) > thank you! finally someone agrees with me! > > ______________________ > Joe DeCosta > joe at decosta.org > ~Off to see the wonderful wizard of Oz!~ > ~because of the wonderful things he does!~ From sigma at pair.com Fri Apr 27 14:13:21 2001 From: sigma at pair.com (sigma at pair.com) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 14:13:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: WebHosting Policy- SSL (fwd) In-Reply-To: <00f501c0cf42$d96dd960$4500a8c0@p3600> from "Neil H." at "Apr 27, 1 01:52:38 pm" Message-ID: <20010427181321.17270.qmail@smx.pair.com> Erm, no, IPv6 doesn't require a new network from scratch. IPv6 can (and currently does, in some places) run tunneled inside IPv4, and ultimately current IPv4 addresses could simply become a tiny subsection of the IPv6 address space. Instead of 4-byte network addresses, you have 8-byte addresses. So one easily fits in the other. For more information see: http://www.6bone.net/ http://www.ipv6.org/ I'll agree that more financial incentive is needed for IPv6 to get traction, though. Kevin > And for that reason alone it should be noted that IPV6 will never be seen. > The only way it could possibly work is to start with a new network from > scratch. > > Neil > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joe DeCosta" > To: > Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 9:14 PM > Subject: Re: WebHosting Policy- SSL (fwd) > > > > I'm curious if you really understand the implications of "just get IPv6 > > working and forget about all this really are. EVERY router in the world, > > and ever workstation MUST be either upgraded or patched to work with both > > IPv4 and IPv6, and until they are all patched we can't begin to move over > > to IP6. IP6 is too far away because of what will have to be done with > > every router etc......workstations and end users aren't going to be that > > hard, because it's either replace some files in the system folder (mac), > > update some DLL's (windows), or replace some libraries and madify the > > kernel (*nix), the client side is the easiet to convert, get all the > > routers done and we can do it, but until then, we have to just deal with > > it........ > > > > =================== > > > > Yes Sir, we'll get right on it, Sir :) > > > > > > Kevin > > > > > > >Do you guys realize the amount of account required to do that? It would > > >make my zone huge and then to go back and delete it. Also my resellers > > >wouldn't like that. This would be a complete nightmare. Just get IPv6 > > >working and forget about all this. > > > > > >Neil > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Chris Hershey" > > To: "ARIN Virtual Web Hosting (E-mail)" > > Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 2:57 PM > > Subject: RE: WebHosting Policy- SSL > > > > > > > > > > > > One way is to use alternate hostnames in our a different domain (such as > > the > > > domain of the hosting provider, i.e. username.domain.com). This also > > allows > > > customers to access the site before it moves, and to access in the event > > > there are problems with their domain, such as it being placed 'On Hold' > > by > > > their registrar. > > > -- > > > > > > -Chris Hershey > > > hershey at easystreet.com > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: owner-vwp at arin.net [mailto:owner-vwp at arin.net]On Behalf Of Neil > > H. > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 11:50 AM > > > > To: ARIN Virtual Web Hosting (E-mail) > > > > Subject: Re: WebHosting Policy- SSL > > > > > > > > > > > > For new accounts setup that use FrontPage extensions how would a user > > pre > > > > publish their site before the domain name resolved? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > Neil > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Bill Darte" > > > > To: "'L. James Prevo'" ; "ARIN Virtual Web > > Hosting > > > > (E-mail)" > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 2:50 PM > > > > Subject: WebHosting Policy- SSL > > > > > > > > > > > > > That would be the technical justification you would provide to ARIN > > > > > > > > > > Bill Darte > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: L. James Prevo [mailto:president at prevo.net] > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 1:13 PM > > > > > > To: Bill Darte; ARIN Public Policy (E-mail); ARIN Virtual Web > > Hosting > > > > > > (E-mail); ARIN Clew (E-mail) > > > > > > Subject: Re: Supporting ISPs with WebHosting Policy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ARIN subscription holders who provide virtual webhosting > > > > > > > services to their > > > > > > > > customers, and organizations that request new address space > > > > > > > from ARIN, are > > > > > > > > strongly encouraged to employ a name-based system of > > > > > > webhosting -- a > > > > > > > > current best practice method which enables multiple domains > > > > > > > to be hosted > > > > > > > > by a single IP address. In contrast, an IP-based system > > requires > > a > > > > > > > > distinct IP number for each domain, which, where not > > > > > > > required for the > > > > > > > > technical basis of services offered, is an inefficient use > > > > > > > of addresses. > > > > > > > > Widespread use of the name-based system will significantly > > > > > > > reduce the > > > > > > > > number of addresses needed for webhosting and will help to > > > > > > > conserve the > > > > > > > > limited supply of available address space. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > POLICY > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When an ISP submits a request for IP address space to be > > > > > > > used for IP-based > > > > > > > > webhosting, they will supply technical justification for > > > > > > > this practice. ARIN > > > > > > > > will collect this data for review of the policy in light of > > > > > > > operational > > > > > > > > experience. > > > > > > > > > > > > I have a server that has SSL (Secure Socket Layers) For a web site > > > > > > to have its own SSL the server requires the domain name or site > > > > > > to have its own IP #, which is how SSL works. What about sites > > > > > > that have SSL and need their own IP #? > > > > > > > > > > > > I am a budget web host, a majority of my sites are all named > > > > > > based. However I have sites that have thier own SSL and need > > > > > > their own IP #. > > > > > > > > > > > > How is ARIN going to handle this? > > > > > > > > > > > > Is it being addressed? > > > > > > > > > > > > L. James Prevo > > > > > > President > > > > > > The Prevo Network > > > > > > http://www.prevo.net > > > > > > "The Place Where We Unlock Your Doors to the Net!" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > Stephen Elliott Harrison & Troxell > > > > > > > Systems & Networking Manager 2 Faneuil Hall Marketplace > > > > > > > Systems & Networking Group Boston, Ma 02109 > > > > > > > (617)227-0494 Phone (617)720-3918 Fax > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NetZero Platinum > > > > > > No Banner Ads and Unlimited Access > > > > > > Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month! > > > > > > http://www.netzero.net > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- End of forwarded message from Neil H. ----- > > > > > > > > > > ______________________ > > Joe DeCosta > > joe at decosta.org > > ~Off to see the wonderful wizard of Oz!~ > > ~because of the wonderful things he does!~ > > > > > From juanro at mindspring.com Fri Apr 27 14:26:57 2001 From: juanro at mindspring.com (Juan R.) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 13:26:57 -0500 Subject: WebHosting Policy- SSL (fwd) References: <018301c0cf43$a7e16960$019f72ce@hostall.com> Message-ID: <00ef01c0cf47$a4cd27b0$3b8a10ac@internal.earthlink.net> Nambased Hosting is really not that difficult to imply if your running apache, just a few config lines to modifie depending on the scale of your hosting farm, plus alot of domains do not really need IP's for there domain. Juan R. ----- Original Message ----- From: "steve" To: "Joe DeCosta" ; "Neil H." Cc: Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 12:58 PM Subject: Re: WebHosting Policy- SSL (fwd) > I agree with you too, Joe. However, implementation of name based hosting > will not be easy for the small hosters.. especially those running NT farms. > The only other concern I really see is accountability.. tier 1 providers > like WorldCom will have tons of IP's at their datacenters while small > Mom-and-Dad hosters will not be able to get them, thus creating a monoply in > IP based solutions over the short run; which, as we all know, leads to long > term gains. > > Steve Conzett > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joe DeCosta" > To: "Neil H." > Cc: > Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 1:58 PM > Subject: Re: WebHosting Policy- SSL (fwd) > > > > thank you! finally someone agrees with me! > > > > ______________________ > > Joe DeCosta > > joe at decosta.org > > ~Off to see the wonderful wizard of Oz!~ > > ~because of the wonderful things he does!~ > > From joe at decosta.org Fri Apr 27 14:58:58 2001 From: joe at decosta.org (Joe DeCosta) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 11:58:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: WebHosting Policy- SSL (fwd) In-Reply-To: <018301c0cf43$a7e16960$019f72ce@hostall.com> Message-ID: we've went over this one before, NT Name Based hosting is cake, even WITH ssl.......check the archives...... ______________________ Joe DeCosta joe at decosta.org ~Off to see the wonderful wizard of Oz!~ ~because of the wonderful things he does!~ On Fri, 27 Apr 2001, steve wrote: > I agree with you too, Joe. However, implementation of name based hosting > will not be easy for the small hosters.. especially those running NT farms. > The only other concern I really see is accountability.. tier 1 providers > like WorldCom will have tons of IP's at their datacenters while small > Mom-and-Dad hosters will not be able to get them, thus creating a monoply in > IP based solutions over the short run; which, as we all know, leads to long > term gains. > > Steve Conzett > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joe DeCosta" > To: "Neil H." > Cc: > Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 1:58 PM > Subject: Re: WebHosting Policy- SSL (fwd) > > > > thank you! finally someone agrees with me! > > > > ______________________ > > Joe DeCosta > > joe at decosta.org > > ~Off to see the wonderful wizard of Oz!~ > > ~because of the wonderful things he does!~ > > From joe at decosta.org Fri Apr 27 15:00:01 2001 From: joe at decosta.org (Joe DeCosta) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 12:00:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: WebHosting Policy- SSL (fwd) In-Reply-To: <00ef01c0cf47$a4cd27b0$3b8a10ac@internal.earthlink.net> Message-ID: and with NT its just as simple, a few clicks, and drop down boxes in a new service, and whamo, you're done ______________________ Joe DeCosta joe at decosta.org ~Off to see the wonderful wizard of Oz!~ ~because of the wonderful things he does!~ On Fri, 27 Apr 2001, Juan R. wrote: > Nambased Hosting is really not that difficult to imply if your running > apache, just a few config lines to modifie depending on the scale of your > hosting farm, plus alot of domains do not really need IP's for there domain. > > Juan R. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "steve" > To: "Joe DeCosta" ; "Neil H." > Cc: > Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 12:58 PM > Subject: Re: WebHosting Policy- SSL (fwd) > > > > I agree with you too, Joe. However, implementation of name based hosting > > will not be easy for the small hosters.. especially those running NT > farms. > > The only other concern I really see is accountability.. tier 1 providers > > like WorldCom will have tons of IP's at their datacenters while small > > Mom-and-Dad hosters will not be able to get them, thus creating a monoply > in > > IP based solutions over the short run; which, as we all know, leads to > long > > term gains. > > > > Steve Conzett > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Joe DeCosta" > > To: "Neil H." > > Cc: > > Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 1:58 PM > > Subject: Re: WebHosting Policy- SSL (fwd) > > > > > > > thank you! finally someone agrees with me! > > > > > > ______________________ > > > Joe DeCosta > > > joe at decosta.org > > > ~Off to see the wonderful wizard of Oz!~ > > > ~because of the wonderful things he does!~ > > > > > From president at prevo.net Fri Apr 27 17:25:48 2001 From: president at prevo.net (L. James Prevo) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 17:25:48 -0400 Subject: Abuse of ARIN policies. Message-ID: <000b01c0cf60$a0e758a0$180101c0@mermed.com> I though I would pass this onto the users of this list. I am wondering about your feelings about this. Is ARIN requesting this info as this message to this user suggest? L. James Prevo President The Prevo Network http://www.prevo.net "The Place Where We Unlock Your Doors to the Net!" Message: 5 From: "hirsh -e-skwirtz" To: cobalt-users at list.cobalt.com Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 12:16:20 -0700 Subject: [cobalt-users] what the hell kind of crap is this??? Reply-To: cobalt-users at list.cobalt.com my isp and server provider sent me this email - demanding my custoner list - has anybody ever had to deal with this sort of intrusion? we have been told we will loose our servers if we do not comply >>>>>>> Subject: IP audit CC: ipadmin at cobaltracks.com Hi, Our IP's are being checked (audited) by ARIN. We must justify the IP usage to ARIN or we may lose IP's. If we lose the IP's we might not be able to provide some services to you, Cobalt Racks customers (one of our major competitors recently lost a big part of their IP allocation). As you know, there is a shortage of IP's worldwide. Please help us to keep the IP's and provide services for you. This is what we need: - Complete list of all your IP's - Complete list of ALL DOMAINS on EACH IP. We count on your support. This information is confidential and goes only to ARIN, which is a non-profit organization. Please send this back by Friday, May 4, 2001. WE MUST HAVE THIS INFORMATION! Please send the list to ipadmin at cobaltracks.com Thank you. Tom Surmiak Sales Cobalt Racks From joe at decosta.org Fri Apr 27 17:33:51 2001 From: joe at decosta.org (Joe DeCosta) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 14:33:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Abuse of ARIN policies. In-Reply-To: <000b01c0cf60$a0e758a0$180101c0@mermed.com> Message-ID: they CAN do that, but its not likely that they will unless there's a flagrant abuse of IP space reported...afaik... ______________________ Joe DeCosta joe at decosta.org ~Off to see the wonderful wizard of Oz!~ ~because of the wonderful things he does!~ On Fri, 27 Apr 2001, L. James Prevo wrote: > I though I would pass this onto the users of this list. I am wondering about > your feelings about this. Is ARIN requesting this info as this message to > this user suggest? > > L. James Prevo > President > The Prevo Network > http://www.prevo.net > "The Place Where We Unlock Your Doors to the Net!" > > Message: 5 > From: "hirsh -e-skwirtz" > To: cobalt-users at list.cobalt.com > Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 12:16:20 -0700 > Subject: [cobalt-users] what the hell kind of crap is this??? > Reply-To: cobalt-users at list.cobalt.com > > my isp and server provider sent me this email - demanding my custoner list - > > has anybody ever had to deal with this sort of intrusion? > > we have been told we will loose our servers if we do not comply > > >>>>>>> > > Subject: IP audit > CC: ipadmin at cobaltracks.com > > > Hi, > > Our IP's are being checked (audited) by ARIN. We must justify the IP > usage > to ARIN or we may lose IP's. If we lose the IP's we might not be able > to > provide some services to you, Cobalt Racks customers (one of our major > competitors recently lost a big part of their IP allocation). > > As you know, there is a shortage of IP's worldwide. Please help us to > keep > the IP's and provide services for you. This is what we need: > > - Complete list of all your IP's > > - Complete list of ALL DOMAINS on EACH IP. > > We count on your support. This information is confidential and goes > only to > ARIN, which is a non-profit organization. > > Please send this back by Friday, May 4, 2001. WE MUST HAVE THIS > INFORMATION! > > Please send the list to ipadmin at cobaltracks.com > > Thank you. > > Tom Surmiak > Sales > Cobalt Racks > > > From sitemaster at potentproducts.com Fri Apr 27 17:58:20 2001 From: sitemaster at potentproducts.com (Potent Products) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 15:58:20 -0600 Subject: Abuse of ARIN policies. References: <000b01c0cf60$a0e758a0$180101c0@mermed.com> Message-ID: <004301c0cf65$2fe8b400$0d0626d0@default> Sounds to me like your Hosting company is asking you to do "their work" for them. By default, when you have space on "someone else's" Server, there is nothing you can hide from them. Ergo: they should know everything you are doing. Although they have the "authority" to make a request (like the one you describe) I would CMA by sending the information directly to your Hoster, using double-registered Postal Mail. Just a thought. Website Rob Sitemaster at http://www.PotentProducts.com ------------------------------------------ Helping people create a Potent Web Site ----- Original Message ----- From: "L. James Prevo" To: "ARIN Virtual Web Hosting (E-mail)" Sent: April 27, 2001 3:25 PM Subject: Abuse of ARIN policies. I though I would pass this onto the users of this list. I am wondering about your feelings about this. Is ARIN requesting this info as this message to this user suggest? L. James Prevo President The Prevo Network http://www.prevo.net "The Place Where We Unlock Your Doors to the Net!" Message: 5 From: "hirsh -e-skwirtz" To: cobalt-users at list.cobalt.com Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 12:16:20 -0700 Subject: [cobalt-users] what the hell kind of crap is this??? Reply-To: cobalt-users at list.cobalt.com my isp and server provider sent me this email - demanding my custoner list - has anybody ever had to deal with this sort of intrusion? we have been told we will loose our servers if we do not comply >>>>>>> Subject: IP audit CC: ipadmin at cobaltracks.com Hi, Our IP's are being checked (audited) by ARIN. We must justify the IP usage to ARIN or we may lose IP's. If we lose the IP's we might not be able to provide some services to you, Cobalt Racks customers (one of our major competitors recently lost a big part of their IP allocation). As you know, there is a shortage of IP's worldwide. Please help us to keep the IP's and provide services for you. This is what we need: - Complete list of all your IP's - Complete list of ALL DOMAINS on EACH IP. We count on your support. This information is confidential and goes only to ARIN, which is a non-profit organization. Please send this back by Friday, May 4, 2001. WE MUST HAVE THIS INFORMATION! Please send the list to ipadmin at cobaltracks.com Thank you. Tom Surmiak Sales Cobalt Racks From prelude at mindspring.com Fri Apr 27 18:05:41 2001 From: prelude at mindspring.com (Andrew Metcalf) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 18:05:41 -0400 Subject: Abuse of ARIN policies. References: Message-ID: <007801c0cf66$3377b1b0$618656d1@PERSONALB60J67> And they aren't exactly "demanding a customer list", the IPs you use and the domains on them aren't really information that isn't available to the the public anyway, anyone can do a whois on a domain and see who admins it. They aren't asking for customer names and phone numbers. I have admined several ARIN blocks, they never asked for anything (besides money) after the blocks were issued. I agree that you would really have to kick up some flags before they asked for an audit. And a self done audit at that, not exactly the IRS. For instance if the business plan for a block owner completely changed ("we were an ISP, now we manufacture toast") I think that would call for an audit. andrew ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe DeCosta" To: "L. James Prevo" Cc: "ARIN Virtual Web Hosting (E-mail)" Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 5:33 PM Subject: Re: Abuse of ARIN policies. > they CAN do that, but its not likely that they will unless there's a > flagrant abuse of IP space reported...afaik... > > ______________________ > Joe DeCosta > joe at decosta.org > ~Off to see the wonderful wizard of Oz!~ > ~because of the wonderful things he does!~ > > On Fri, 27 Apr 2001, L. James Prevo wrote: > > > I though I would pass this onto the users of this list. I am wondering about > > your feelings about this. Is ARIN requesting this info as this message to > > this user suggest? > > > > L. James Prevo > > President > > The Prevo Network > > http://www.prevo.net > > "The Place Where We Unlock Your Doors to the Net!" > > > > Message: 5 > > From: "hirsh -e-skwirtz" > > To: cobalt-users at list.cobalt.com > > Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 12:16:20 -0700 > > Subject: [cobalt-users] what the hell kind of crap is this??? > > Reply-To: cobalt-users at list.cobalt.com > > > > my isp and server provider sent me this email - demanding my custoner list - > > > > has anybody ever had to deal with this sort of intrusion? > > > > we have been told we will loose our servers if we do not comply > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > Subject: IP audit > > CC: ipadmin at cobaltracks.com > > > > > > Hi, > > > > Our IP's are being checked (audited) by ARIN. We must justify the IP > > usage > > to ARIN or we may lose IP's. If we lose the IP's we might not be able > > to > > provide some services to you, Cobalt Racks customers (one of our major > > competitors recently lost a big part of their IP allocation). > > > > As you know, there is a shortage of IP's worldwide. Please help us to > > keep > > the IP's and provide services for you. This is what we need: > > > > - Complete list of all your IP's > > > > - Complete list of ALL DOMAINS on EACH IP. > > > > We count on your support. This information is confidential and goes > > only to > > ARIN, which is a non-profit organization. > > > > Please send this back by Friday, May 4, 2001. WE MUST HAVE THIS > > INFORMATION! > > > > Please send the list to ipadmin at cobaltracks.com > > > > Thank you. > > > > Tom Surmiak > > Sales > > Cobalt Racks > > > > > > > From joe at decosta.org Fri Apr 27 18:05:29 2001 From: joe at decosta.org (Joe DeCosta) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 15:05:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Abuse of ARIN policies. In-Reply-To: <004301c0cf65$2fe8b400$0d0626d0@default> Message-ID: the ISP's uplink should ask the ISP, and if a reseller/customer of the ISP has IPspace at their provisioning disposal, then the ISP can ask the customer/reseller see http://www.megapath.net/iprequest.asp#first for how a top level ISP does things.........to even get ip's ______________________ Joe DeCosta joe at decosta.org ~Off to see the wonderful wizard of Oz!~ ~because of the wonderful things he does!~ On Fri, 27 Apr 2001, Potent Products wrote: > Sounds to me like your Hosting company is asking you to do "their > work" for them. By default, when you have space on "someone > else's" Server, there is nothing you can hide from them. Ergo: > they should know everything you are doing. > > Although they have the "authority" to make a request (like the > one you describe) I would CMA by sending the information directly > to your Hoster, using double-registered Postal Mail. > > Just a thought. > > > Website Rob > Sitemaster at > http://www.PotentProducts.com > ------------------------------------------ > Helping people create a Potent Web Site > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "L. James Prevo" > To: "ARIN Virtual Web Hosting (E-mail)" > Sent: April 27, 2001 3:25 PM > Subject: Abuse of ARIN policies. > > > I though I would pass this onto the users of this list. I am > wondering about > your feelings about this. Is ARIN requesting this info as this > message to > this user suggest? > > L. James Prevo > President > The Prevo Network > http://www.prevo.net > "The Place Where We Unlock Your Doors to the Net!" > > Message: 5 > From: "hirsh -e-skwirtz" > To: cobalt-users at list.cobalt.com > Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 12:16:20 -0700 > Subject: [cobalt-users] what the hell kind of crap is this??? > Reply-To: cobalt-users at list.cobalt.com > > my isp and server provider sent me this email - demanding my > custoner list - > > has anybody ever had to deal with this sort of intrusion? > > we have been told we will loose our servers if we do not comply > > >>>>>>> > > Subject: IP audit > CC: ipadmin at cobaltracks.com > > > Hi, > > Our IP's are being checked (audited) by ARIN. We must justify the > IP > usage > to ARIN or we may lose IP's. If we lose the IP's we might not be > able > to > provide some services to you, Cobalt Racks customers (one of our > major > competitors recently lost a big part of their IP allocation). > > As you know, there is a shortage of IP's worldwide. Please help > us to > keep > the IP's and provide services for you. This is what we need: > > - Complete list of all your IP's > > - Complete list of ALL DOMAINS on EACH IP. > > We count on your support. This information is confidential and > goes > only to > ARIN, which is a non-profit organization. > > Please send this back by Friday, May 4, 2001. WE MUST HAVE THIS > INFORMATION! > > Please send the list to ipadmin at cobaltracks.com > > Thank you. > > Tom Surmiak > Sales > Cobalt Racks > > > > > > From joe at decosta.org Fri Apr 27 18:13:35 2001 From: joe at decosta.org (Joe DeCosta) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 15:13:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Abuse of ARIN policies. In-Reply-To: <007801c0cf66$3377b1b0$618656d1@PERSONALB60J67> Message-ID: in any case, i do suggest that if you would like to keep your allocations intact and not impact further allocations, i would certianly provide them with a nice little spreadsheet like IP hostname, and host type.......blah blah http://andrew2.andrew.cmu.edu/rfc/rfc2050.html might be of some interest ______________________ Joe DeCosta joe at decosta.org ~Off to see the wonderful wizard of Oz!~ ~because of the wonderful things he does!~ On Fri, 27 Apr 2001, Andrew Metcalf wrote: > And they aren't exactly "demanding a customer list", the IPs you use and the > domains on them aren't really information that isn't available to the the > public anyway, anyone can do a whois on a domain and see who admins it. They > aren't asking for customer names and phone numbers. > > I have admined several ARIN blocks, they never asked for anything (besides > money) after the blocks were issued. I agree that you would really have to > kick up some flags before they asked for an audit. And a self done audit at > that, not exactly the IRS. For instance if the business plan for a block > owner completely changed ("we were an ISP, now we manufacture toast") I > think that would call for an audit. > > andrew > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joe DeCosta" > To: "L. James Prevo" > Cc: "ARIN Virtual Web Hosting (E-mail)" > Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 5:33 PM > Subject: Re: Abuse of ARIN policies. > > > > they CAN do that, but its not likely that they will unless there's a > > flagrant abuse of IP space reported...afaik... > > > > ______________________ > > Joe DeCosta > > joe at decosta.org > > ~Off to see the wonderful wizard of Oz!~ > > ~because of the wonderful things he does!~ > > > > On Fri, 27 Apr 2001, L. James Prevo wrote: > > > > > I though I would pass this onto the users of this list. I am wondering > about > > > your feelings about this. Is ARIN requesting this info as this message > to > > > this user suggest? > > > > > > L. James Prevo > > > President > > > The Prevo Network > > > http://www.prevo.net > > > "The Place Where We Unlock Your Doors to the Net!" > > > > > > Message: 5 > > > From: "hirsh -e-skwirtz" > > > To: cobalt-users at list.cobalt.com > > > Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 12:16:20 -0700 > > > Subject: [cobalt-users] what the hell kind of crap is this??? > > > Reply-To: cobalt-users at list.cobalt.com > > > > > > my isp and server provider sent me this email - demanding my custoner > list - > > > > > > has anybody ever had to deal with this sort of intrusion? > > > > > > we have been told we will loose our servers if we do not comply > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > Subject: IP audit > > > CC: ipadmin at cobaltracks.com > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > Our IP's are being checked (audited) by ARIN. We must justify the IP > > > usage > > > to ARIN or we may lose IP's. If we lose the IP's we might not be able > > > to > > > provide some services to you, Cobalt Racks customers (one of our major > > > competitors recently lost a big part of their IP allocation). > > > > > > As you know, there is a shortage of IP's worldwide. Please help us to > > > keep > > > the IP's and provide services for you. This is what we need: > > > > > > - Complete list of all your IP's > > > > > > - Complete list of ALL DOMAINS on EACH IP. > > > > > > We count on your support. This information is confidential and goes > > > only to > > > ARIN, which is a non-profit organization. > > > > > > Please send this back by Friday, May 4, 2001. WE MUST HAVE THIS > > > INFORMATION! > > > > > > Please send the list to ipadmin at cobaltracks.com > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > Tom Surmiak > > > Sales > > > Cobalt Racks > > > > > > > > > > > > From lee at chpl.net Fri Apr 27 18:29:36 2001 From: lee at chpl.net (Chapel Support) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 18:29:36 -0400 Subject: Abuse of ARIN policies. In-Reply-To: <004301c0cf65$2fe8b400$0d0626d0@default> Message-ID: <012501c0cf69$8a6a1e60$09b1413f@beancounter.chapel1.com> Come on guys. As a webhosting provider we have to justify to ARIN when we ask for new IP space. A "busy" web hosting provider should be able to expect help from large virtual ISP's, and a simple request for your numbering is not a lot to be asked for.... We have clients that control 500-600 IP's and when a client does not pay them they simply recycle that IP to another domain. For us to keep track of all these guy's activity would require additional tech people to keep track of nothing but changes. We ask for this not to pilfer your client's but to get more IP's from ARIN. Lee Murphy -----Original Message----- From: owner-vwp at arin.net [mailto:owner-vwp at arin.net] On Behalf Of Potent Products Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 5:58 PM To: ARIN Virtual Web Hosting (E-mail) Subject: Re: Abuse of ARIN policies. Sounds to me like your Hosting company is asking you to do "their work" for them. By default, when you have space on "someone else's" Server, there is nothing you can hide from them. Ergo: they should know everything you are doing. Although they have the "authority" to make a request (like the one you describe) I would CMA by sending the information directly to your Hoster, using double-registered Postal Mail. Just a thought. Website Rob Sitemaster at http://www.PotentProducts.com ------------------------------------------ Helping people create a Potent Web Site ----- Original Message ----- From: "L. James Prevo" To: "ARIN Virtual Web Hosting (E-mail)" Sent: April 27, 2001 3:25 PM Subject: Abuse of ARIN policies. I though I would pass this onto the users of this list. I am wondering about your feelings about this. Is ARIN requesting this info as this message to this user suggest? L. James Prevo President The Prevo Network http://www.prevo.net "The Place Where We Unlock Your Doors to the Net!" Message: 5 From: "hirsh -e-skwirtz" To: cobalt-users at list.cobalt.com Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 12:16:20 -0700 Subject: [cobalt-users] what the hell kind of crap is this??? Reply-To: cobalt-users at list.cobalt.com my isp and server provider sent me this email - demanding my custoner list - has anybody ever had to deal with this sort of intrusion? we have been told we will loose our servers if we do not comply >>>>>>> Subject: IP audit CC: ipadmin at cobaltracks.com Hi, Our IP's are being checked (audited) by ARIN. We must justify the IP usage to ARIN or we may lose IP's. If we lose the IP's we might not be able to provide some services to you, Cobalt Racks customers (one of our major competitors recently lost a big part of their IP allocation). As you know, there is a shortage of IP's worldwide. Please help us to keep the IP's and provide services for you. This is what we need: - Complete list of all your IP's - Complete list of ALL DOMAINS on EACH IP. We count on your support. This information is confidential and goes only to ARIN, which is a non-profit organization. Please send this back by Friday, May 4, 2001. WE MUST HAVE THIS INFORMATION! Please send the list to ipadmin at cobaltracks.com Thank you. Tom Surmiak Sales Cobalt Racks From joe at decosta.org Fri Apr 27 18:39:29 2001 From: joe at decosta.org (Joe DeCosta) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 15:39:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Abuse of ARIN policies. In-Reply-To: <012501c0cf69$8a6a1e60$09b1413f@beancounter.chapel1.com> Message-ID: ok, why does ANYONE need more than say 10 IP's for 100 domains hosted??? and thats high traffice hosting too i've seen networks do gigabytes in a few hours with as little as 15 IP's and something like 250 domains....with ssl......on NT no less........ ______________________ Joe DeCosta joe at decosta.org ~Off to see the wonderful wizard of Oz!~ ~because of the wonderful things he does!~ On Fri, 27 Apr 2001, Chapel Support wrote: > Come on guys. As a webhosting provider we have to justify to ARIN > when we ask for new IP space. > > A "busy" web hosting provider should be able to expect help from large > virtual ISP's, and a simple request for your numbering is not a lot to > be asked for.... > > We have clients that control 500-600 IP's and when a client does not pay > them they simply recycle that IP to another domain. For us to keep > track of all these guy's activity would require additional tech people > to keep track of nothing but changes. > > We ask for this not to pilfer your client's but to get more IP's from > ARIN. > > Lee Murphy > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-vwp at arin.net [mailto:owner-vwp at arin.net] On Behalf Of Potent > Products > Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 5:58 PM > To: ARIN Virtual Web Hosting (E-mail) > Subject: Re: Abuse of ARIN policies. > > > Sounds to me like your Hosting company is asking you to do "their work" > for them. By default, when you have space on "someone else's" Server, > there is nothing you can hide from them. Ergo: they should know > everything you are doing. > > Although they have the "authority" to make a request (like the one you > describe) I would CMA by sending the information directly to your > Hoster, using double-registered Postal Mail. > > Just a thought. > > > Website Rob > Sitemaster at > http://www.PotentProducts.com > ------------------------------------------ > Helping people create a Potent Web Site > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "L. James Prevo" > To: "ARIN Virtual Web Hosting (E-mail)" > Sent: April 27, 2001 3:25 PM > Subject: Abuse of ARIN policies. > > > I though I would pass this onto the users of this list. I am wondering > about your feelings about this. Is ARIN requesting this info as this > message to this user suggest? > > L. James Prevo > President > The Prevo Network > http://www.prevo.net > "The Place Where We Unlock Your Doors to the Net!" > > Message: 5 > From: "hirsh -e-skwirtz" > To: cobalt-users at list.cobalt.com > Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 12:16:20 -0700 > Subject: [cobalt-users] what the hell kind of crap is this??? > Reply-To: cobalt-users at list.cobalt.com > > my isp and server provider sent me this email - demanding my custoner > list - > > has anybody ever had to deal with this sort of intrusion? > > we have been told we will loose our servers if we do not comply > > >>>>>>> > > Subject: IP audit > CC: ipadmin at cobaltracks.com > > > Hi, > > Our IP's are being checked (audited) by ARIN. We must justify the IP > usage to ARIN or we may lose IP's. If we lose the IP's we might not be > able to provide some services to you, Cobalt Racks customers (one of our > major competitors recently lost a big part of their IP allocation). > > As you know, there is a shortage of IP's worldwide. Please help us to > keep the IP's and provide services for you. This is what we need: > > - Complete list of all your IP's > > - Complete list of ALL DOMAINS on EACH IP. > > We count on your support. This information is confidential and goes only > to ARIN, which is a non-profit organization. > > Please send this back by Friday, May 4, 2001. WE MUST HAVE THIS > INFORMATION! > > Please send the list to ipadmin at cobaltracks.com > > Thank you. > > Tom Surmiak > Sales > Cobalt Racks > > > > > > > > From simon at optinet.com Fri Apr 27 18:56:33 2001 From: simon at optinet.com (Simon) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 18:56:33 -0400 Subject: Abuse of ARIN policies. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200104272252.SAA27676@rs2.arin.net> Here are few for you to answer: How do you implement traffic shapping on a shared web server without dedicated IPs? this is necessary for high-traffic websites. Also, how do you block an IP at the router/kernel when you're being attacked (or just have the need) just on that single IP without affecting other 100+ clients? -Simon On Fri, 27 Apr 2001 15:39:29 -0700 (PDT), Joe DeCosta wrote: >ok, why does ANYONE need more than say 10 IP's for 100 domains >hosted??? and thats high traffice hosting too >i've seen networks do gigabytes in a few hours with as little as 15 IP's >and something like 250 domains....with ssl......on NT no less........ > >______________________ >Joe DeCosta >joe at decosta.org >~Off to see the wonderful wizard of Oz!~ >~because of the wonderful things he does!~ > >On Fri, 27 Apr 2001, Chapel Support wrote: > >> Come on guys. As a webhosting provider we have to justify to ARIN >> when we ask for new IP space. >> >> A "busy" web hosting provider should be able to expect help from large >> virtual ISP's, and a simple request for your numbering is not a lot to >> be asked for.... >> >> We have clients that control 500-600 IP's and when a client does not pay >> them they simply recycle that IP to another domain. For us to keep >> track of all these guy's activity would require additional tech people >> to keep track of nothing but changes. >> >> We ask for this not to pilfer your client's but to get more IP's from >> ARIN. >> >> Lee Murphy >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-vwp at arin.net [mailto:owner-vwp at arin.net] On Behalf Of Potent >> Products >> Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 5:58 PM >> To: ARIN Virtual Web Hosting (E-mail) >> Subject: Re: Abuse of ARIN policies. >> >> >> Sounds to me like your Hosting company is asking you to do "their work" >> for them. By default, when you have space on "someone else's" Server, >> there is nothing you can hide from them. Ergo: they should know >> everything you are doing. >> >> Although they have the "authority" to make a request (like the one you >> describe) I would CMA by sending the information directly to your >> Hoster, using double-registered Postal Mail. >> >> Just a thought. >> >> >> Website Rob >> Sitemaster at >> http://www.PotentProducts.com >> ------------------------------------------ >> Helping people create a Potent Web Site >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "L. James Prevo" >> To: "ARIN Virtual Web Hosting (E-mail)" >> Sent: April 27, 2001 3:25 PM >> Subject: Abuse of ARIN policies. >> >> >> I though I would pass this onto the users of this list. I am wondering >> about your feelings about this. Is ARIN requesting this info as this >> message to this user suggest? >> >> L. James Prevo >> President >> The Prevo Network >> http://www.prevo.net >> "The Place Where We Unlock Your Doors to the Net!" >> >> Message: 5 >> From: "hirsh -e-skwirtz" >> To: cobalt-users at list.cobalt.com >> Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 12:16:20 -0700 >> Subject: [cobalt-users] what the hell kind of crap is this??? >> Reply-To: cobalt-users at list.cobalt.com >> >> my isp and server provider sent me this email - demanding my custoner >> list - >> >> has anybody ever had to deal with this sort of intrusion? >> >> we have been told we will loose our servers if we do not comply >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> Subject: IP audit >> CC: ipadmin at cobaltracks.com >> >> >> Hi, >> >> Our IP's are being checked (audited) by ARIN. We must justify the IP >> usage to ARIN or we may lose IP's. If we lose the IP's we might not be >> able to provide some services to you, Cobalt Racks customers (one of our >> major competitors recently lost a big part of their IP allocation). >> >> As you know, there is a shortage of IP's worldwide. Please help us to >> keep the IP's and provide services for you. This is what we need: >> >> - Complete list of all your IP's >> >> - Complete list of ALL DOMAINS on EACH IP. >> >> We count on your support. This information is confidential and goes only >> to ARIN, which is a non-profit organization. >> >> Please send this back by Friday, May 4, 2001. WE MUST HAVE THIS >> INFORMATION! >> >> Please send the list to ipadmin at cobaltracks.com >> >> Thank you. >> >> Tom Surmiak >> Sales >> Cobalt Racks >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > From kulriksen at publichost.com Fri Apr 27 18:59:11 2001 From: kulriksen at publichost.com (Karyn Ulriksen) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 15:59:11 -0700 Subject: Abuse of ARIN policies. Message-ID: <0127E258EE29D3118A0F00609765B4487C9541@dhcp-gateway.sitestream.net> IP utilization for virtualized services can be minimized, but not altogether disregarded. We figured out ways to address most issues. The big ugly is NT. Our virtual NT clients are distressed when they learn they are uploading their FTP files via a Unix server (because they ordered NT), but NT chroot by user has some maturing to do. With the right bit of planning and engineering, most services can be offered virtually without dropping IPs left and right. The only exceptions are virtualized anonymous FTP (will somebody please add a Hostname field to the FTP header? *grin*) and SSL, which may necessarily need this for a while. Virtualized services are often easier managed by NOT using the differing IPs. I was happy to see ARIN submit the concept of justifying webhosting IP requirements. Some people don't engineer environments that run lean on IPs simply because the are too embedded in legacy issues, are engineering-challenged, or plain lazy. I'm extremely lazy, that's why I do engineering - so that I can continue to be lazy! K :: -----Original Message----- :: From: Joe DeCosta [mailto:joe at decosta.org] :: Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 3:39 PM :: To: Chapel Support :: Cc: 'ARIN Virtual Web Hosting (E-mail)' :: Subject: RE: Abuse of ARIN policies. :: :: :: ok, why does ANYONE need more than say 10 IP's for 100 domains :: hosted??? and thats high traffice hosting too :: i've seen networks do gigabytes in a few hours with as :: little as 15 IP's :: and something like 250 domains....with ssl......on NT no less........ :: :: ______________________ :: Joe DeCosta :: joe at decosta.org :: ~Off to see the wonderful wizard of Oz!~ :: ~because of the wonderful things he does!~ :: :: On Fri, 27 Apr 2001, Chapel Support wrote: :: :: > Come on guys. As a webhosting provider we have to :: justify to ARIN :: > when we ask for new IP space. :: > :: > A "busy" web hosting provider should be able to expect :: help from large :: > virtual ISP's, and a simple request for your numbering is :: not a lot to :: > be asked for.... :: > :: > We have clients that control 500-600 IP's and when a :: client does not pay :: > them they simply recycle that IP to another domain. For us to keep :: > track of all these guy's activity would require additional :: tech people :: > to keep track of nothing but changes. :: > :: > We ask for this not to pilfer your client's but to get :: more IP's from :: > ARIN. :: > :: > Lee Murphy :: > :: > :: > -----Original Message----- :: > From: owner-vwp at arin.net [mailto:owner-vwp at arin.net] On :: Behalf Of Potent :: > Products :: > Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 5:58 PM :: > To: ARIN Virtual Web Hosting (E-mail) :: > Subject: Re: Abuse of ARIN policies. :: > :: > :: > Sounds to me like your Hosting company is asking you to do :: "their work" :: > for them. By default, when you have space on "someone :: else's" Server, :: > there is nothing you can hide from them. Ergo: they should know :: > everything you are doing. :: > :: > Although they have the "authority" to make a request (like :: the one you :: > describe) I would CMA by sending the information directly to your :: > Hoster, using double-registered Postal Mail. :: > :: > Just a thought. :: > :: > :: > Website Rob :: > Sitemaster at :: > http://www.PotentProducts.com :: > ------------------------------------------ :: > Helping people create a Potent Web Site :: > :: > :: > ----- Original Message ----- :: > From: "L. James Prevo" :: > To: "ARIN Virtual Web Hosting (E-mail)" :: > Sent: April 27, 2001 3:25 PM :: > Subject: Abuse of ARIN policies. :: > :: > :: > I though I would pass this onto the users of this list. I :: am wondering :: > about your feelings about this. Is ARIN requesting this :: info as this :: > message to this user suggest? :: > :: > L. James Prevo :: > President :: > The Prevo Network :: > http://www.prevo.net :: > "The Place Where We Unlock Your Doors to the Net!" :: > :: > Message: 5 :: > From: "hirsh -e-skwirtz" :: > To: cobalt-users at list.cobalt.com :: > Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 12:16:20 -0700 :: > Subject: [cobalt-users] what the hell kind of crap is this??? :: > Reply-To: cobalt-users at list.cobalt.com :: > :: > my isp and server provider sent me this email - demanding :: my custoner :: > list - :: > :: > has anybody ever had to deal with this sort of intrusion? :: > :: > we have been told we will loose our servers if we do not comply :: > :: > >>>>>>> :: > :: > Subject: IP audit :: > CC: ipadmin at cobaltracks.com :: > :: > :: > Hi, :: > :: > Our IP's are being checked (audited) by ARIN. We must :: justify the IP :: > usage to ARIN or we may lose IP's. If we lose the IP's we :: might not be :: > able to provide some services to you, Cobalt Racks :: customers (one of our :: > major competitors recently lost a big part of their IP allocation). :: > :: > As you know, there is a shortage of IP's worldwide. Please :: help us to :: > keep the IP's and provide services for you. This is what we need: :: > :: > - Complete list of all your IP's :: > :: > - Complete list of ALL DOMAINS on EACH IP. :: > :: > We count on your support. This information is confidential :: and goes only :: > to ARIN, which is a non-profit organization. :: > :: > Please send this back by Friday, May 4, 2001. WE MUST HAVE THIS :: > INFORMATION! :: > :: > Please send the list to ipadmin at cobaltracks.com :: > :: > Thank you. :: > :: > Tom Surmiak :: > Sales :: > Cobalt Racks :: > :: > :: > :: > :: > :: > :: > :: > :: From joe at decosta.org Fri Apr 27 20:58:25 2001 From: joe at decosta.org (Joe DeCosta) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 17:58:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Abuse of ARIN policies. In-Reply-To: <200104272252.SAA27676@rs2.arin.net> Message-ID: we're talking about an ideal world, and in ideal world none of that would happen :-P lol....... but that is the drawbakc, you have to used like NT hosting to take care of that shit..... ______________________ Joe DeCosta joe at decosta.org ~Off to see the wonderful wizard of Oz!~ ~because of the wonderful things he does!~ On Fri, 27 Apr 2001, Simon wrote: > Here are few for you to answer: How do you implement traffic shapping > on a shared web server without dedicated IPs? this is necessary for > high-traffic websites. Also, how do you block an IP at the router/kernel > when you're being attacked (or just have the need) just on that single > IP without affecting other 100+ clients? > > -Simon > > > On Fri, 27 Apr 2001 15:39:29 -0700 (PDT), Joe DeCosta wrote: > > >ok, why does ANYONE need more than say 10 IP's for 100 domains > >hosted??? and thats high traffice hosting too > >i've seen networks do gigabytes in a few hours with as little as 15 IP's > >and something like 250 domains....with ssl......on NT no less........ > > > >______________________ > >Joe DeCosta > >joe at decosta.org > >~Off to see the wonderful wizard of Oz!~ > >~because of the wonderful things he does!~ > > > >On Fri, 27 Apr 2001, Chapel Support wrote: > > > >> Come on guys. As a webhosting provider we have to justify to ARIN > >> when we ask for new IP space. > >> > >> A "busy" web hosting provider should be able to expect help from large > >> virtual ISP's, and a simple request for your numbering is not a lot to > >> be asked for.... > >> > >> We have clients that control 500-600 IP's and when a client does not pay > >> them they simply recycle that IP to another domain. For us to keep > >> track of all these guy's activity would require additional tech people > >> to keep track of nothing but changes. > >> > >> We ask for this not to pilfer your client's but to get more IP's from > >> ARIN. > >> > >> Lee Murphy > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: owner-vwp at arin.net [mailto:owner-vwp at arin.net] On Behalf Of Potent > >> Products > >> Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 5:58 PM > >> To: ARIN Virtual Web Hosting (E-mail) > >> Subject: Re: Abuse of ARIN policies. > >> > >> > >> Sounds to me like your Hosting company is asking you to do "their work" > >> for them. By default, when you have space on "someone else's" Server, > >> there is nothing you can hide from them. Ergo: they should know > >> everything you are doing. > >> > >> Although they have the "authority" to make a request (like the one you > >> describe) I would CMA by sending the information directly to your > >> Hoster, using double-registered Postal Mail. > >> > >> Just a thought. > >> > >> > >> Website Rob > >> Sitemaster at > >> http://www.PotentProducts.com > >> ------------------------------------------ > >> Helping people create a Potent Web Site > >> > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "L. James Prevo" > >> To: "ARIN Virtual Web Hosting (E-mail)" > >> Sent: April 27, 2001 3:25 PM > >> Subject: Abuse of ARIN policies. > >> > >> > >> I though I would pass this onto the users of this list. I am wondering > >> about your feelings about this. Is ARIN requesting this info as this > >> message to this user suggest? > >> > >> L. James Prevo > >> President > >> The Prevo Network > >> http://www.prevo.net > >> "The Place Where We Unlock Your Doors to the Net!" > >> > >> Message: 5 > >> From: "hirsh -e-skwirtz" > >> To: cobalt-users at list.cobalt.com > >> Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 12:16:20 -0700 > >> Subject: [cobalt-users] what the hell kind of crap is this??? > >> Reply-To: cobalt-users at list.cobalt.com > >> > >> my isp and server provider sent me this email - demanding my custoner > >> list - > >> > >> has anybody ever had to deal with this sort of intrusion? > >> > >> we have been told we will loose our servers if we do not comply > >> > >> >>>>>>> > >> > >> Subject: IP audit > >> CC: ipadmin at cobaltracks.com > >> > >> > >> Hi, > >> > >> Our IP's are being checked (audited) by ARIN. We must justify the IP > >> usage to ARIN or we may lose IP's. If we lose the IP's we might not be > >> able to provide some services to you, Cobalt Racks customers (one of our > >> major competitors recently lost a big part of their IP allocation). > >> > >> As you know, there is a shortage of IP's worldwide. Please help us to > >> keep the IP's and provide services for you. This is what we need: > >> > >> - Complete list of all your IP's > >> > >> - Complete list of ALL DOMAINS on EACH IP. > >> > >> We count on your support. This information is confidential and goes only > >> to ARIN, which is a non-profit organization. > >> > >> Please send this back by Friday, May 4, 2001. WE MUST HAVE THIS > >> INFORMATION! > >> > >> Please send the list to ipadmin at cobaltracks.com > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> Tom Surmiak > >> Sales > >> Cobalt Racks > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > From joe at decosta.org Fri Apr 27 21:17:09 2001 From: joe at decosta.org (Joe DeCosta) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 18:17:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Abuse of ARIN policies. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: i must express my apologies for cursing to the list, it was immature and a slip, i did ^X y a little too quickly.. ______________________ Joe DeCosta joe at decosta.org ~Off to see the wonderful wizard of Oz!~ ~because of the wonderful things he does!~ On Fri, 27 Apr 2001, Joe DeCosta wrote: > we're talking about an ideal world, and in ideal world none of that would > happen :-P lol....... but that is the drawbakc, you have to used like NT > hosting to take care of that shit..... > > ______________________ > Joe DeCosta > joe at decosta.org > ~Off to see the wonderful wizard of Oz!~ > ~because of the wonderful things he does!~ > > On Fri, 27 Apr 2001, Simon wrote: > > > Here are few for you to answer: How do you implement traffic shapping > > on a shared web server without dedicated IPs? this is necessary for > > high-traffic websites. Also, how do you block an IP at the router/kernel > > when you're being attacked (or just have the need) just on that single > > IP without affecting other 100+ clients? > > > > -Simon > > > > > > On Fri, 27 Apr 2001 15:39:29 -0700 (PDT), Joe DeCosta wrote: > > > > >ok, why does ANYONE need more than say 10 IP's for 100 domains > > >hosted??? and thats high traffice hosting too > > >i've seen networks do gigabytes in a few hours with as little as 15 IP's > > >and something like 250 domains....with ssl......on NT no less........ > > > > > >______________________ > > >Joe DeCosta > > >joe at decosta.org > > >~Off to see the wonderful wizard of Oz!~ > > >~because of the wonderful things he does!~ > > > > > >On Fri, 27 Apr 2001, Chapel Support wrote: > > > > > >> Come on guys. As a webhosting provider we have to justify to ARIN > > >> when we ask for new IP space. > > >> > > >> A "busy" web hosting provider should be able to expect help from large > > >> virtual ISP's, and a simple request for your numbering is not a lot to > > >> be asked for.... > > >> > > >> We have clients that control 500-600 IP's and when a client does not pay > > >> them they simply recycle that IP to another domain. For us to keep > > >> track of all these guy's activity would require additional tech people > > >> to keep track of nothing but changes. > > >> > > >> We ask for this not to pilfer your client's but to get more IP's from > > >> ARIN. > > >> > > >> Lee Murphy > > >> > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: owner-vwp at arin.net [mailto:owner-vwp at arin.net] On Behalf Of Potent > > >> Products > > >> Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 5:58 PM > > >> To: ARIN Virtual Web Hosting (E-mail) > > >> Subject: Re: Abuse of ARIN policies. > > >> > > >> > > >> Sounds to me like your Hosting company is asking you to do "their work" > > >> for them. By default, when you have space on "someone else's" Server, > > >> there is nothing you can hide from them. Ergo: they should know > > >> everything you are doing. > > >> > > >> Although they have the "authority" to make a request (like the one you > > >> describe) I would CMA by sending the information directly to your > > >> Hoster, using double-registered Postal Mail. > > >> > > >> Just a thought. > > >> > > >> > > >> Website Rob > > >> Sitemaster at > > >> http://www.PotentProducts.com > > >> ------------------------------------------ > > >> Helping people create a Potent Web Site > > >> > > >> > > >> ----- Original Message ----- > > >> From: "L. James Prevo" > > >> To: "ARIN Virtual Web Hosting (E-mail)" > > >> Sent: April 27, 2001 3:25 PM > > >> Subject: Abuse of ARIN policies. > > >> > > >> > > >> I though I would pass this onto the users of this list. I am wondering > > >> about your feelings about this. Is ARIN requesting this info as this > > >> message to this user suggest? > > >> > > >> L. James Prevo > > >> President > > >> The Prevo Network > > >> http://www.prevo.net > > >> "The Place Where We Unlock Your Doors to the Net!" > > >> > > >> Message: 5 > > >> From: "hirsh -e-skwirtz" > > >> To: cobalt-users at list.cobalt.com > > >> Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 12:16:20 -0700 > > >> Subject: [cobalt-users] what the hell kind of crap is this??? > > >> Reply-To: cobalt-users at list.cobalt.com > > >> > > >> my isp and server provider sent me this email - demanding my custoner > > >> list - > > >> > > >> has anybody ever had to deal with this sort of intrusion? > > >> > > >> we have been told we will loose our servers if we do not comply > > >> > > >> >>>>>>> > > >> > > >> Subject: IP audit > > >> CC: ipadmin at cobaltracks.com > > >> > > >> > > >> Hi, > > >> > > >> Our IP's are being checked (audited) by ARIN. We must justify the IP > > >> usage to ARIN or we may lose IP's. If we lose the IP's we might not be > > >> able to provide some services to you, Cobalt Racks customers (one of our > > >> major competitors recently lost a big part of their IP allocation). > > >> > > >> As you know, there is a shortage of IP's worldwide. Please help us to > > >> keep the IP's and provide services for you. This is what we need: > > >> > > >> - Complete list of all your IP's > > >> > > >> - Complete list of ALL DOMAINS on EACH IP. > > >> > > >> We count on your support. This information is confidential and goes only > > >> to ARIN, which is a non-profit organization. > > >> > > >> Please send this back by Friday, May 4, 2001. WE MUST HAVE THIS > > >> INFORMATION! > > >> > > >> Please send the list to ipadmin at cobaltracks.com > > >> > > >> Thank you. > > >> > > >> Tom Surmiak > > >> Sales > > >> Cobalt Racks > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > From william at elan.net Fri Apr 27 06:32:21 2001 From: william at elan.net (william at elan.net) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 03:32:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Abuse of ARIN policies. In-Reply-To: <000b01c0cf60$a0e758a0$180101c0@mermed.com> Message-ID: This is not that unusual. We ask similar questions any time my customer asks for more ips - they have to provide list of ips currently in use with either note saying how many sites are on that ip or if one site - listing of it (we did not require before to list why one site is on this ip, but will now based on ARIN asking for technical justification of ip usage, so I could collect statistics and report back to arin next time we have to ask for more ips). I generally do not ever refuse requests for more ips and if customer says its urgent they get ips immediatly and have next couple weeks to get back with their usage, I could only dream ARIN would do something similar :) On Fri, 27 Apr 2001, L. James Prevo wrote: > I though I would pass this onto the users of this list. I am wondering about > your feelings about this. Is ARIN requesting this info as this message to > this user suggest? > > L. James Prevo > President > The Prevo Network > http://www.prevo.net > "The Place Where We Unlock Your Doors to the Net!" > > Message: 5 > From: "hirsh -e-skwirtz" > To: cobalt-users at list.cobalt.com > Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 12:16:20 -0700 > Subject: [cobalt-users] what the hell kind of crap is this??? > Reply-To: cobalt-users at list.cobalt.com > > my isp and server provider sent me this email - demanding my custoner list - > > has anybody ever had to deal with this sort of intrusion? > > we have been told we will loose our servers if we do not comply > > >>>>>>> > > Subject: IP audit > CC: ipadmin at cobaltracks.com > > > Hi, > > Our IP's are being checked (audited) by ARIN. We must justify the IP > usage > to ARIN or we may lose IP's. If we lose the IP's we might not be able > to > provide some services to you, Cobalt Racks customers (one of our major > competitors recently lost a big part of their IP allocation). > > As you know, there is a shortage of IP's worldwide. Please help us to > keep > the IP's and provide services for you. This is what we need: > > - Complete list of all your IP's > > - Complete list of ALL DOMAINS on EACH IP. > > We count on your support. This information is confidential and goes > only to > ARIN, which is a non-profit organization. > > Please send this back by Friday, May 4, 2001. WE MUST HAVE THIS > INFORMATION! > > Please send the list to ipadmin at cobaltracks.com > > Thank you. > > Tom Surmiak > Sales > Cobalt Racks > > > From Douglas.Cohn at hostcentric.com Sat Apr 28 11:33:35 2001 From: Douglas.Cohn at hostcentric.com (Douglas Cohn) Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 11:33:35 -0400 Subject: Abuse of ARIN policies. Message-ID: This did not go to the ARIN list. By the way we use FTP-Serv to solve NT FTP issues. DC -----Original Message----- From: Karyn Ulriksen [mailto:kulriksen at publichost.com] Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 6:59 PM To: 'Joe DeCosta'; Chapel Support Cc: 'ARIN Virtual Web Hosting (E-mail)' Subject: RE: Abuse of ARIN policies. IP utilization for virtualized services can be minimized, but not altogether disregarded. We figured out ways to address most issues. The big ugly is NT. Our virtual NT clients are distressed when they learn they are uploading their FTP files via a Unix server (because they ordered NT), but NT chroot by user has some maturing to do. With the right bit of planning and engineering, most services can be offered virtually without dropping IPs left and right. The only exceptions are virtualized anonymous FTP (will somebody please add a Hostname field to the FTP header? *grin*) and SSL, which may necessarily need this for a while. Virtualized services are often easier managed by NOT using the differing IPs. I was happy to see ARIN submit the concept of justifying webhosting IP requirements. Some people don't engineer environments that run lean on IPs simply because the are too embedded in legacy issues, are engineering-challenged, or plain lazy. I'm extremely lazy, that's why I do engineering - so that I can continue to be lazy! K :: -----Original Message----- :: From: Joe DeCosta [mailto:joe at decosta.org] :: Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 3:39 PM :: To: Chapel Support :: Cc: 'ARIN Virtual Web Hosting (E-mail)' :: Subject: RE: Abuse of ARIN policies. :: :: :: ok, why does ANYONE need more than say 10 IP's for 100 domains :: hosted??? and thats high traffice hosting too :: i've seen networks do gigabytes in a few hours with as :: little as 15 IP's :: and something like 250 domains....with ssl......on NT no less........ :: :: ______________________ :: Joe DeCosta :: joe at decosta.org :: ~Off to see the wonderful wizard of Oz!~ :: ~because of the wonderful things he does!~ :: :: On Fri, 27 Apr 2001, Chapel Support wrote: :: :: > Come on guys. As a webhosting provider we have to :: justify to ARIN :: > when we ask for new IP space. :: > :: > A "busy" web hosting provider should be able to expect :: help from large :: > virtual ISP's, and a simple request for your numbering is :: not a lot to :: > be asked for.... :: > :: > We have clients that control 500-600 IP's and when a :: client does not pay :: > them they simply recycle that IP to another domain. For us to keep :: > track of all these guy's activity would require additional :: tech people :: > to keep track of nothing but changes. :: > :: > We ask for this not to pilfer your client's but to get :: more IP's from :: > ARIN. :: > :: > Lee Murphy :: > :: > :: > -----Original Message----- :: > From: owner-vwp at arin.net [mailto:owner-vwp at arin.net] On :: Behalf Of Potent :: > Products :: > Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 5:58 PM :: > To: ARIN Virtual Web Hosting (E-mail) :: > Subject: Re: Abuse of ARIN policies. :: > :: > :: > Sounds to me like your Hosting company is asking you to do :: "their work" :: > for them. By default, when you have space on "someone :: else's" Server, :: > there is nothing you can hide from them. Ergo: they should know :: > everything you are doing. :: > :: > Although they have the "authority" to make a request (like :: the one you :: > describe) I would CMA by sending the information directly to your :: > Hoster, using double-registered Postal Mail. :: > :: > Just a thought. :: > :: > :: > Website Rob :: > Sitemaster at :: > http://www.PotentProducts.com :: > ------------------------------------------ :: > Helping people create a Potent Web Site :: > :: > :: > ----- Original Message ----- :: > From: "L. James Prevo" :: > To: "ARIN Virtual Web Hosting (E-mail)" :: > Sent: April 27, 2001 3:25 PM :: > Subject: Abuse of ARIN policies. :: > :: > :: > I though I would pass this onto the users of this list. I :: am wondering :: > about your feelings about this. Is ARIN requesting this :: info as this :: > message to this user suggest? :: > :: > L. James Prevo :: > President :: > The Prevo Network :: > http://www.prevo.net :: > "The Place Where We Unlock Your Doors to the Net!" :: > :: > Message: 5 :: > From: "hirsh -e-skwirtz" :: > To: cobalt-users at list.cobalt.com :: > Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 12:16:20 -0700 :: > Subject: [cobalt-users] what the hell kind of crap is this??? :: > Reply-To: cobalt-users at list.cobalt.com :: > :: > my isp and server provider sent me this email - demanding :: my custoner :: > list - :: > :: > has anybody ever had to deal with this sort of intrusion? :: > :: > we have been told we will loose our servers if we do not comply :: > :: > >>>>>>> :: > :: > Subject: IP audit :: > CC: ipadmin at cobaltracks.com :: > :: > :: > Hi, :: > :: > Our IP's are being checked (audited) by ARIN. We must :: justify the IP :: > usage to ARIN or we may lose IP's. If we lose the IP's we :: might not be :: > able to provide some services to you, Cobalt Racks :: customers (one of our :: > major competitors recently lost a big part of their IP allocation). :: > :: > As you know, there is a shortage of IP's worldwide. Please :: help us to :: > keep the IP's and provide services for you. This is what we need: :: > :: > - Complete list of all your IP's :: > :: > - Complete list of ALL DOMAINS on EACH IP. :: > :: > We count on your support. This information is confidential :: and goes only :: > to ARIN, which is a non-profit organization. :: > :: > Please send this back by Friday, May 4, 2001. WE MUST HAVE THIS :: > INFORMATION! :: > :: > Please send the list to ipadmin at cobaltracks.com :: > :: > Thank you. :: > :: > Tom Surmiak :: > Sales :: > Cobalt Racks :: > :: > :: > :: > :: > :: > :: > :: > ::