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<TITLE>RE: [ppml] Spamming off of this list</TITLE>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2>I must say that if you post to a publicly accessible mailing list on such topics as archiving, auditing, utilization, reporting and/or administrative tasks associated with ARIN, there exists a potential that you may receive a direct email message from a person or person(s) that informs you of a solution that might make life better for you/your company. Certainly you will be hard pressed to make the case that it is spam.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>That said -- and so that we can return this last back to its purpose and move off the topic of spamming -- I wish to say that if anyone who may have received a message from me and they did not want to then you have my fullest apologies.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>No one on this list (now or in the future) will receive a message from me unless they explicitly request one.</FONT>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2>Yours sincerely</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>Brian Hall</FONT>
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<BR>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>From: Mury [<A HREF="mailto:mury@goldengate.net">mailto:mury@goldengate.net</A>]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 11:37 AM</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>To: ARIN Public Policy (E-mail)</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Subject: Re: [ppml] Spamming off of this list</FONT>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2>So I wasn't the only one. Two other people emailed me privately to say</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>they had received it and considered it spam. In addition, the spammer is</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>a liar... or extrememly ignorant. He has since emailed me again spouting</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>a bunch of BS. Yes, he is apparantly trying to politely back peddle, but</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>in reality he's lying about how he got the list and why he sent the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>message. Instead of lying and defending himself, he should have said "I</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>was wrong and I'm sorry."</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>So for those that questioned it, yes it was spam. So back to my question,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>does ARIN have a mailing list policy regarding this? Can this person be</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>removed from the mailing list? Hell, their IPs should be revoked if it</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>happens a 2nd time.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>His followup letter follows.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>Mury</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 14:38:25 -0700</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>From: "Hall, Brian" <bhall@incognito.com></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>To: 'Mury' <mury@goldengate.net></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Subject: RE: [ppml] Spamming off of this list</FONT>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2>Mury,</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>I did not spam, certainly not by any definition I've ever heard used.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>I did send extremely brief message, individually, to several people (less</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>than 10 total) who actively expressed interest in a means of automating</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>the IP management and IP assignment functions.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>That said, I apologize for any incovenience.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>You will not receive anything more unless you explicitly request it.</FONT>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2>Cheers,</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>Brian</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>On Tue, 26 Aug 2003, Leo Bicknell wrote:</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>> In a message written on Tue, Aug 26, 2003 at 06:15:14PM -0400, jlewis@lewis.org wrote:</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > > bhall@incognito.com</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > > Brian Hall | Product Manager</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > > Incognito Software Inc.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > > T: 604.688.4332 x111 | F: 604.688-4339</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> ></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > Is it really spam if you post in a thread on a mailing list and someone</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > responds privately saying they have a product related to your post that</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > you might be interested in? I'm not so sure I'd call it spam.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> I received one of these, of note:</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> * The message had no "References" header, or any other indication</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> it was a "reply" other than "Re:" in the subject line.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> * My sent-mail archive indicates I've never sent a message to the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> list with the subject Mr Hall's message indicated "Re: IP</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> management".</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> Given the lack of anything to indicate it was a reply, I'd say he</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> harvested addresses, and sent out a message thinly disguised as a</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> reply. That is spam.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> --</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> Leo Bicknell - bicknell@ufp.org - CCIE 3440</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> PGP keys at <A HREF="http://www.ufp.org/~bicknell/" TARGET="_blank">http://www.ufp.org/~bicknell/</A></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> Read TMBG List - tmbg-list-request@tmbg.org, www.tmbg.org</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>></FONT>
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